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Thread: Stop And Identify Laws with Open Carry.

  1. #1
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    Stop And Identify Laws with Open Carry.

    Hi, I posted a thread about a month ago asking about open carry laws and such, and have since found out I would legally be able to open carry at 18.

    However, I have stumbled upon a new question that is if I am approached by a LEO, do I have to provide identification? I have read into statutes, most chiefly §29-829, which reads:

    "A peace officer may stop any person in a public place whom he reasonably suspects of committing, who has committed, or who is about to commit a crime and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his actions. When a peace officer has stopped a person for questioning pursuant to this section and reasonably suspects he is in danger of life or limb, he may search such person for a dangerous weapon. If the peace officer finds such a weapon or any other thing the possession of which may constitute a crime, he may take and keep it until the completion of questioning, at which time he shall either return it, if lawfully possessed, or arrest such person. For purposes of this section, peace officer shall include credentialed conservation officers of the Game and Parks Commission."

    Now, if somebody is to open carry, such as myself, specifically within the city of Lincoln, do I have to provide identification? This statute seems to be a little grey on the matter.

    Once again, if anybody could help me answer this question, it would be much appreciated.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by HarperHurst; 05-17-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  2. #2
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    A demand for name, address and explanation is satisfied orally. Without warrant your papers are protected by the Fourth Amendment from seizure - presumably by your state law too.

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    Hi, now that I have come to think about it, may a LEO also confiscate the handgun, despite the fact that no search is really necessary since it would be openly carried?

  4. #4
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarperHurst View Post
    Hi, now that I have come to think about it, may a LEO also confiscate the handgun, despite the fact that no search is really necessary since it would be openly carried?
    Read Terry v. Ohio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

    What does confiscate mean to you and is it different than seize that is protected by the same Fourth Amendment.

  5. #5
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    "A peace officer may stop any person in a public place whom he reasonably suspects of committing, who has committed, or who is about to commit a crime
    AND most laws and courts further stipulate he must be able to ARTICULATE those reasonable suspicions RAS. They can't just say "You look suspicious to me"; and doing a legal thing in a place where it is legal to do does not equal RAS. My intention should it ever happen is to respond "Do you have Reasonable Articulateable Suspicion or am I free to go"? Remember they can approach you and ask you to drop your drawers and do a handstand; they can't compel.
    Last edited by F350; 05-17-2012 at 05:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    My intention should it ever happen is to respond "Do you have Reasonable Articulateable Suspicion or am I free to go"?
    Neither must they - cops - debate or even answer or even tell YOU the truth. RAS/PC is between the charging attorney and the court, the victim/perp/citizen doesn't enter in to it.

  7. #7
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Au contraire, mon frère....Wisconsin may be different than Missouri.
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Neither must they - cops - debate or even answer or even tell YOU the truth. RAS/PC is between the charging attorney and the court, the victim/perp/citizen doesn't enter in to it.
    For detention in Missouri the officer would be ill-advised to not inform you of the reason that he has seized/detained you. For a arrest he must inform you of the crime for which he claims authority to act.
    RSMo 544.180. Arrest - An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person of the defendant, or by his submission to the custody of the officer, under authority of a warrant or otherwise. The officer must inform the defendant by what authority he acts, and must also show the warrant if required.
    In any event, it is wise to know the laws for all the relavent aspects of the OCing citizen and LE encounter. I refer to these laws as 'procedural blunders' by LE. Every little mistake is a tick-mark against the officer and his actions being determined legal and tick-marks in your favor in pursuit of the redress of wrongs.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  8. #8
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    At least in Missouri....we should ask..."Why are you restraining me?"....Ref...#2 or #3

    http://education.yahoo.com/reference...ntry/restraint

    re·straint (r-strnt)

    NOUN:

    1) The act of restraining or the condition of being restrained.
    2) Loss or abridgment of freedom.
    3) An influence that inhibits or restrains; a limitation.
    4) An instrument or a means of restraining.
    5) Control or repression of feelings; constraint.
    Last edited by zekester; 05-18-2012 at 11:13 AM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  9. #9
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Neither must they - cops - debate or even answer or even tell YOU the truth. RAS/PC is between the charging attorney and the court, the victim/perp/citizen doesn't enter in to it.
    So you are saying a cop can snarf me off the street, place me in cuffs, transport me to jail, put me in a cell for an indeterminate period of time and I have no right to know why???? Remind me NEVER to go to Wisconsin!!!!

  10. #10
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    So you are saying a cop can snarf me off the street, place me in cuffs, transport me to jail, put me in a cell for an indeterminate period of time and I have no right to know why???? Remind me NEVER to go to Wisconsin!!!!
    Why, do you have a statute, from your high state, that a cop can't snarf, cuff, stuff you without telling YOU the charges for an indeterminate time?

    A cop's responsibilities are to observe, investigate, detain and incarcerate. His superiors recommend charges to the state's attorney who argues them to the indicting judge.

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