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Thread: Search and seizure during arrest without warrant temporary questioning? §968.25

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Search and seizure during arrest without warrant temporary questioning? §968.25

    We require judicial notice of the ordinariness of gun carry by law abiding persons.

    How might a cop determine lawful possession during such detention and temporary questioning (§968.24) that shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.

    Seizure without arrest is not a statutory option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisc. Stats.
    §968.25 Search during temporary questioning.

    When a law enforcement officer has stopped a person for temporary questioning pursuant to s. 968.24 and reasonably suspects that he or she or another is in danger of physical injury, the law enforcement officer may search such person for weapons or any instrument or article or substance readily capable of causing physical injury and of a sort not ordinarily carried in public places by law abiding persons.

    If the law enforcement officer finds such a weapon or instrument, or any other property possession of which the law enforcement officer reasonably believes may constitute the commission of a crime, or which may constitute a threat to his or her safety, the law enforcement officer may take it and keep it until the completion of the questioning, at which time the law enforcement officer shall either return it, if lawfully possessed, or arrest the person so questioned.
    History: 1993 a. 486.

    An investigatory stop−and−frisk for the sole purpose of discovering a suspect’s identity was lawful under the facts of the case. State v. Flynn, 92 Wis. 2d 427, 285 N.W.2d 710 (1979).

    A stop−and−frisk was not an unreasonable search and seizure. State v. Williamson, 113 Wis. 2d 389, 335 N.W.2d 814 (1983).

    This section permits an officer to search the passenger compartment of a vehicle for weapons if an individual who recently occupied the vehicle is stopped under s.968.24 and the officer “reasonably suspects that he or another is in danger of physical injury.” State v. Moretto, 144 Wis. 2d 171, 423 N.W.2d 841 (1988).

    Although Terry provides only for an officer to conduct a carefully limited search of the outer clothing in an attempt to discover weapons that might be used to assault him or her, under the circumstances of this case, the search was properly broadened to encompass the opening of the defendant’s purse, which was essentially an extension of her person where the purse was accessible by her. State v. Limon, 2008 WI App 77, 312 Wis. 2d 174, 751 N.W.2d 877, 07−1578.

    Terry tempered or torpedoed? The new law of stop and frisk. Lewis. WBB Aug. 1988.

    NOTE: See also the notes to Article I, section 11, of the Wisconsin Constitution.

  2. #2
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    this thread in the VA sub-forum is lately discussing display, produce and surrender

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...fic-stop/page3

  3. #3
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    "The privilege against self-incrimination is neither accorded to the passive resistant, nor the person who is ignorant of his rights, nor to one indifferent thereto. It is a fighting clause. Its benefits can be retained only by sustained combat. It cannot be claimed by an attorney or solicitor. It is valid only when insisted upon by a belligerent claimant in person." US v Johnson, 76 F. Supp 538.

    "The privilege against self-incrimination is neither accorded to the passive resistant, not
    to the person who is ignorant of his rights, nor to one who is indifferent thereto. It is a
    FIGHTING clause. It's benefits can be retained only by sustained COMBAT. It cannot be
    claimed by attorney or solicitor. It is valid only when insisted upon by a BELLIGERENT
    claimant in person." McAlister vs. Henkle, 201 U.S. 90, 26 S.Ct. 385, 50 L. Ed. 671;


    See the reoccurring wording...you want a right, you have to fight for it.
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    "terry frisk of vehicle", yup, the're using that one regularly these days.

    if asked to exit a vehicle, immediately lock the doors, and place the keys in your pocket, this removes "Immediately accessible" from the equation, and a non-consensual search is going to be awfully damn difficult for them to justify.
    If the vehicle doors are left unlocked, or windows down, a cop can and will most likely justify their illegal search as making sure no weapons were 'Immediately accessible"
    If the cop starts busting your chops about locking the car, just tell him it is habit, and do not, absolutely do not allow him to search for any reason whatsoever.

    Can anyone cite the case law where it states fighting to protect your rights to not be violated is encouraged, because the court stated that simply being passive is the same as waiving your rights.
    So, fight tooth and nail to protect your rights, be belligerent, because most likely the cop is doing the same already to try and bully you into submission.

  5. #5
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    if asked to exit a vehicle, immediately lock the doors, and place the keys in your pocket,
    Don't wait to be commanded to exit.

  6. #6
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    if asked to exit a vehicle, immediately lock the doors, and place the keys in your pocket, this removes "Immediately accessible" from the equation, and a non-consensual search is going to be awfully damn difficult for them to justify.
    If the vehicle doors are left unlocked, or windows down, a cop can and will most likely justify their illegal search as making sure no weapons were 'Immediately accessible"
    If the cop starts busting your chops about locking the car, just tell him it is habit, and do not, absolutely do not allow him to search for any reason whatsoever.

    Can anyone cite the case law where it states fighting to protect your rights to not be violated is encouraged, because the court stated that simply being passive is the same as waiving your rights.
    So, fight tooth and nail to protect your rights, be belligerent, because most likely the cop is doing the same already to try and bully you into submission.
    Words to live by.

    Well worth reading twice.

    The only rights you have, are the ones you use.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Don't wait to be commanded to exit.
    Doug/Master Doug/Herr Heckler Huffman: This is not 1977 (the last time you claim to have been involved in a traffic stop). If you want to jump out of your car (possibly armed), and expect LEO to not draw down on you, cuff and stuff, go for it. You may "beat the rap" but you may not survive being shot. Your lack of honoring the rules of OCDO is very telling of your character (or lack thereof).
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  8. #8
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plankton View Post
    Doug/Master Doug/Herr Heckler Huffman: This is not 1977 (the last time you claim to have been involved in a traffic stop). If you want to jump out of your car (possibly armed), and expect LEO to not draw down on you, cuff and stuff, go for it. You may "beat the rap" but you may not survive being shot. Your lack of honoring the rules of OCDO is very telling of your character (or lack thereof).
    Have you no faith in the 4th, or do you just cow-tow to everyones wishes??? If so, I have some commands for you to follow

    I see no statute broken by exiting your vehicle after being pulled-over...
    Bale da Hay

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  9. #9
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    if asked to exit a vehicle, immediately lock the doors, and place the keys in your pocket, this removes "Immediately accessible" from the equation, and a non-consensual search is going to be awfully damn difficult for them to justify.
    If the vehicle doors are left unlocked, or windows down, a cop can and will most likely justify their illegal search as making sure no weapons were 'Immediately accessible"
    If the cop starts busting your chops about locking the car, just tell him it is habit, and do not, absolutely do not allow him to search for any reason whatsoever.

    Can anyone cite the case law where it states fighting to protect your rights to not be violated is encouraged, because the court stated that simply being passive is the same as waiving your rights.
    So, fight tooth and nail to protect your rights, be belligerent, because most likely the cop is doing the same already to try and bully you into submission.
    This.^^^^^
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak View Post
    if asked to exit a vehicle, immediately lock the doors, and place the keys in your pocket, this removes "Immediately accessible" from the equation, and a non-consensual search is going to be awfully damn difficult for them to justify.
    If the vehicle doors are left unlocked, or windows down, a cop can and will most likely justify their illegal search as making sure no weapons were 'Immediately accessible"
    If the cop starts busting your chops about locking the car, just tell him it is habit, and do not, absolutely do not allow him to search for any reason whatsoever.

    Can anyone cite the case law where it states fighting to protect your rights to not be violated is encouraged, because the court stated that simply being passive is the same as waiving your rights.
    So, fight tooth and nail to protect your rights, be belligerent, because most likely the cop is doing the same already to try and bully you into submission.
    I am able to lock my doors and toss the keys inside. I have an app (Viper Smart Start) on my phone that I can lock/unlock the car (as long as there is cell service). Plus I password protect my phone, so good luck getting that information from me.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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