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Thread: Businesses that encourage oc/cc by employees

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    Businesses that encourage oc/cc by employees

    Anyone know of a business (not including gun shops or ranges or the like) that encourages/allows open or concealed carry by it's employees while working?

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Pawn shops
    Private security
    Truck drivers
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 05-19-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    There's always enforcers/extortionists... Both criminal and governmental.

    As if there is a big difference today.
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    Regular Member Dave in Edmonds's Avatar
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    My place of employment, a body shop, doesn't specifically forbid it, so several of us cc at work without any repurcussions.

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    Pawn shops
    Private security
    Truck drivers
    Not all of them
    Last edited by SovereignAxe; 05-19-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Not all of them

    I've challenged the forum before to come up with ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of a local employer that expressly permi any kind of carry while on the job, other than those in the industry (like pawn shops). I don't mean a little mom&pop that can make up rules as they like, I mean a documented policy.

    To date, no one has.

    Outside of the gun industry, those here able to carry without risking their jobs are generally on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis.
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    I was a manager at a toy store and cc'd. So did the owner. We actual started reloading together.

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    Regular Member WinchesterModel12's Avatar
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    My wife CC's to work everyday and her manager knows about it. I think he CC's also.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Gun stores.

    Pizza delivery shops SHOULD encourage it but they want you to use your car, pay for insurance, gas, repairs, and then not give you the fuel premiums that they are charging the customers. To top it off if they find out that you carry in your OWN CAR you're fired.

    All delivery companies, from the pizza stop to the big package truck drivers, from the bicycle delivery to the big rig, SHOULD encourage it. Sadly the laws/policies make it harder to do that.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleJ View Post
    Anyone know of a business (not including gun shops or ranges or the like) that encourages/allows open or concealed carry by it's employees while working?
    The Mech/Tow company I worked for allowed open and concealed carry. Some tows we were sent on it was suggested that we be sure we have our firearm. At any given time you could find a 45 in the boss's sons tool box, occasionally his 50 Cal was in his tool box, and I alway had my Nine. We would unholster when we were crawling around in the shop under cars, but always carried on tows (in fact being left on a tow at 3 AM on a logging road by WSP, is the reason I got my concealed and found out about OC). The boss's son had been asked by one of the local OSPD officers to inform us "to carry" after the shooting at long beach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    I've challenged the forum before to come up with ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of a local employer that expressly permi any kind of carry while on the job, other than those in the industry (like pawn shops). I don't mean a little mom&pop that can make up rules as they like, I mean a documented policy.

    To date, no one has.

    Outside of the gun industry, those here able to carry without risking their jobs are generally on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis.
    I must have missed that post, otherwise I would have posted the above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    Gun stores.

    Pizza delivery shops SHOULD encourage it but they want you to use your car, pay for insurance, gas, repairs, and then not give you the fuel premiums that they are charging the customers. To top it off if they find out that you carry in your OWN CAR you're fired.

    All delivery companies, from the pizza stop to the big package truck drivers, from the bicycle delivery to the big rig, SHOULD encourage it. Sadly the laws/policies make it harder to do that.
    All cashiers should be required to carry and all companies should be required to video record the doors, registers, and safe. I am very uncomfortable with a no firearms allowed on company property policy and the fact that there are no cameras in the store.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    The Mech/Tow company I worked for allowed open and concealed carry. Some tows we were sent on it was suggested that we be sure we have our firearm. At any given time you could find a 45 in the boss's sons tool box, occasionally his 50 Cal was in his tool box, and I alway had my Nine. We would unholster when we were crawling around in the shop under cars, but always carried on tows (in fact being left on a tow at 3 AM on a logging road by WSP, is the reason I got my concealed and found out about OC). The boss's son had been asked by one of the local OSPD officers to inform us "to carry" after the shooting at long beach.
    Be careful who you do the tow for. If the order is a repo-tow and you don't have a court order then the person you're taking the property from can legally shoot you. Just a legal heads up. Some cops have gotten in trouble (will find that case again) for helping a credit company repo a trailer with out a court order.

    If you EVER collect-tow for the IRS then it's your life lost.
    No court order = theft. Theft of an automobile/motor vehicle is a felony.

    All cashiers should be required to carry and all companies should be required to video record the doors, registers, and safe. I am very uncomfortable with a no firearms allowed on company property policy and the fact that there are no cameras in the store.

    I agree with you that all cash handlers should be armed. We need to fix a few laws that prevent some citizens from being armed though. You can't have a gun if convicted for a DV4, yet it is really easy to get a DV4 even before the new laws and even easier with them.

    Your ex 'love' or former roommate from 10 years ago appears and assaults you, you defend yourself (if you're a man) you can go to jail for a DV4 charge. The convictions are supper easy to to come by too.
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I agree with you that all cash handlers should be armed

    I totally agree. Where I work, I have had to carry upwards of $15,000 in cash (not that much compared to some)to the department that stores it. The company feels the need to put up a bullet proof window, but the doors could all be very easily kicked in... not to mention the fact that below the window is just some cheap building supplies and I'm not even allowed to (by the company handbook) be armed... Oh yeah, this is for an unnamed collection agency (I'm not a collector, just a cash handler) that collects mainly for courts, so I pretty much only deal with people who break the law enough to go to collections. And for some reason the angry ones are rarely there about traffic tickets...
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 05-20-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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    [QUOTE=Freedom1Man;1757108] If the order is a repo-tow and you don't have a court order then the person you're taking the property from can legally shoot you.


    Please cite the law that allows someone to shoot anyone stealing/taking/repoing their car in the state of Washington.

    Just a legal heads up do not shot someone stealing your car especially if you have not made the payments.

    IANAL and I did not sleep at Holiday inn last night.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Orphan;1757255]
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    If the order is a repo-tow and you don't have a court order then the person you're taking the property from can legally shoot you.


    Please cite the law that allows someone to shoot anyone stealing/taking/repoing their car in the state of Washington.

    Just a legal heads up do not shot someone stealing your car especially if you have not made the payments.

    IANAL and I did not sleep at Holiday inn last night.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.065

    (1) A person is guilty of theft of a motor vehicle if he or she commits theft of a motor vehicle.

    (2) Theft of a motor vehicle is a class B felony.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050
    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.


    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

    The courts have ruled that taking of property without a court order is still theft.
    Old guy I was friends with had sold a car to someone with a payment plan. He was told that he needed a court order to retrieve the property when the person stopped paying. The other part was before he could get a court order he had to have put a repo clause in the sale contract.

    So even with a repo clause you still need a court order.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    The courts have ruled that taking of property without a court order is still theft.
    Old guy I was friends with had sold a car to someone with a payment plan. He was told that he needed a court order to retrieve the property when the person stopped paying. The other part was before he could get a court order he had to have put a repo clause in the sale contract.

    So even with a repo clause you still need a court order.

    Cite please

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    The courts have ruled that taking of property without a court order is still theft.
    Old guy I was friends with had sold a car to someone with a payment plan. He was told that he needed a court order to retrieve the property when the person stopped paying. The other part was before he could get a court order he had to have put a repo clause in the sale contract.

    So even with a repo clause you still need a court order.

    Cite please
    Pretty sure he cited enough to make it clear in the post above your's. Let's not play the little kid's "Why?" game. To summarize, if you try to take something without a court order, the owner may shoot you if they catch you in the act as it is commision of a felony against them. Disagree? Then cite.

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    [QUOTE=Freedom1Man;1757333]
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.065

    (1) A person is guilty of theft of a motor vehicle if he or she commits theft of a motor vehicle.

    (2) Theft of a motor vehicle is a class B felony.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050
    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.


    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

    The courts have ruled that taking of property without a court order is still theft.
    Old guy I was friends with had sold a car to someone with a payment plan. He was told that he needed a court order to retrieve the property when the person stopped paying. The other part was before he could get a court order he had to have put a repo clause in the sale contract.

    So even with a repo clause you still need a court order.
    Good luck in court explaining why you shot a tow truck driver that was driving off with you car hooked up to his wrecker after not making the payments on your car for several months. Do not forget that you would have received several letters asking you to catch up the payments from the finance company. The he was committing a felony defense is very slim in this case how would you know if the tow truck driver had a court order or not when you pulled the trigger. If you can not articulate how you knew there was no court order issued your he was committing a felony defense is gone. After all you knew or should have known that you were late in several car payments, you should have been expecting it to be repoed. I think you go to prison for 2 degree murder 5 to 15 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Pretty sure he cited enough to make it clear in the post above your's. Let's not play the little kid's "Why?" game. To summarize, if you try to take something without a court order, the owner may shoot you if they catch you in the act as it is commision of a felony against them. Disagree? Then cite.
    I would like to see the cite where the COURTS HAVE RULED. Just because he says they have ruled does not make it so. Cite please.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    All cashiers should be required to carry...
    I bet some cashiers are, and the boss don't even know. Or they have a don't ask, don't tell policy.
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    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleJ View Post
    Anyone know of a business (not including gun shops or ranges or the like) that encourages/allows open or concealed carry by it's employees while working?
    LOTS of lawyers (especially criminal defense lawyers) and their staffs CC. It goes with the territory. Some folks just don't take too kindly to "their lawyer losing the case" and seek revenge (especially when they're actually guilty of the crime). I know of an Assistant Federal Public Defender who actually was gunned down in the lobby of his office building by a disgruntled (guilty) defendant after the jury convicted the guy.
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

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    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I carry OC all the time on the job, I'm self employed though.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member WinchesterModel12's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Freedom1Man;1757333]
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.56.065

    (1) A person is guilty of theft of a motor vehicle if he or she commits theft of a motor vehicle.

    (2) Theft of a motor vehicle is a class B felony.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050
    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.


    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

    The courts have ruled that taking of property without a court order is still theft.
    Old guy I was friends with had sold a car to someone with a payment plan. He was told that he needed a court order to retrieve the property when the person stopped paying. The other part was before he could get a court order he had to have put a repo clause in the sale contract.

    So even with a repo clause you still need a court order.
    It is not justified to shoot somebody doing a repo on your vehicle, even if it is ruled that the tow truck driver was committing a felony, your lifewould not be at risk to justify a shooting.
    Please reread the law, the "felony" would not be committed against you.
    If guns kill people......then all of mine are defective........ UNCLE TED

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    [QUOTE=WinchesterModel12;1758178]
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post

    It is not justified to shoot somebody doing a repo on your vehicle, even if it is ruled that the tow truck driver was committing a felony, your lifewould not be at risk to justify a shooting.
    Please reread the law, the "felony" would not be committed against you.
    I absolutely agree with you I was trying to convince Freedom1Man out of jail.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=WinchesterModel12;1758178]
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post

    It is not justified to shoot somebody doing a repo on your vehicle, even if it is ruled that the tow truck driver was committing a felony, your lifewould not be at risk to justify a shooting.
    That's a rather broad statement. Some "Repo Men" can get rather violent and in some cases a person could genuinely feel that their life was in danger.

    It's going to all depend on the circumstances.

    Use the TV series of Operation Repo as an example. Someone stands in the path of the repo man saying "you're not taking my car". Someone like "Matt" takes the tow hook and starts to make a swinging move with it. At that point a reasonable person could conclude that the "hook" is a weapon and his life is in danger.

    OK, so much of the show appears staged but in real life it happens. I had a friend long ago that repo'd cars in Seattle. He related a lot of incidents where Self Defense could have been employed against the repo man.
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    I would love to find a trucking company that would allow me to carry. My company doesn't allow guns, pepper spray or knives with more than a 2 inch blade. If it's primary use is as a weapon it's not allowed. In the cab I have a can of wasp spray and a tire(skull) thumper. When I'm in the trailer unloading all I have is my flashlight. None of them would be much use against an armed thug but it's all I can get away with without risking my job.

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