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Thread: Where cant I carry?

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    Where cant I carry?

    From what my hours of researching have told me about CT. I can carry open or concealed. I have handled firearms for a while, but have recently felt the need to carry. Still weird and nerve racking, yet makes me feel American/free. Where do I want to beware of carrying...I know schools are a big no no. How close, and do I have to be worried driving by and hypothetically being pulled over. Finally where else should I beware? Thanks!

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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    If you are carrying but do not yet know where to not carry, you are a felon waiting to happen.

    You need to immediately seek good quality training and read up on statutes.

    Schools are one place, federal buildings are another (USPS), so is any place that is marked.

    In CT this includes court houses and any place the legislature is meeting.


    This is not all-inclusive and you need to do your homework. No police officer or internet resource is perfect for this issue, it is your life on the line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    If you are carrying but do not yet know where to not carry, you are a felon waiting to happen.

    You need to immediately seek good quality training and read up on statutes.

    Schools are one place, federal buildings are another (USPS), so is any place that is marked.

    In CT this includes court houses and any place the legislature is meeting.


    This is not all-inclusive and you need to do your homework. No police officer or internet resource is perfect for this issue, it is your life on the line.
    I appreciate your feedback. Let me get this straight, I have to pay to learn how not to break the law? There is no black and white resource? I did read the CT carry flyer, which listed the places not to carry you mentioned, but you also mentioned that this was not all inclusive. Where are the rest of the inclusions? Forgive my sarcasm, it is just my frustration, I'm assuming I am not the first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecrom83 View Post
    I appreciate your feedback. Let me get this straight, I have to pay to learn how not to break the law? There is no black and white resource? I did read the CT carry flyer, which listed the places not to carry you mentioned, but you also mentioned that this was not all inclusive. Where are the rest of the inclusions? Forgive my sarcasm, it is just my frustration, I'm assuming I am not the first.
    Well you could read the state statutes and repeat the research that the rest of us have all done, but I am pointing you to shortcuts. And those shortcuts may cost money.

    Now, the problem with your request is that you are asking a poor question.

    I gave you a simple list of the places that state and federal statutes prohibit you to carry, but I cannot give you definitive rules on every other place that you cannot carry. Some people will give you bad information like 'malls', 'bars', 'churches', 'banks' or 'government property'. I will not do that, because those are not entirely true and are not based on specific statutes. You need to understand the laws in order to stay in compliance with them. If you want to ask a specific question like "Is it legal to carry in a bank?", I could answer you definitively "It is legal as long as it is not prohibited by the property owner. No law exists to prohibit carrying firearms in banks."

    Now, you have options for learning all the ins and outs of the laws around where you may carry or not carry.
    - You can rely on internet forums such as these as gospel and take the good with the bad and potentially make a mistake.
    - You can ask questions and get responses that point you to sources that help you learn how to look this stuff up yourself.
    - You can pay an attorney to give you advice.
    - You can pay a trainer to help you.

    Again, this is not a list I can simply post further than what I have posted.

    - Federal buildings (USPS is a great example)
    - Any place the legislature is meeting (LOB, Capitol building)
    - School property (K-12, public or private)
    - Any place where firearms are prohibited.

    This is the information you asked for, but I once again caution you to start researching the laws and learning about the more complicated nature of things. There are a lot of pitfalls around these areas.
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    As Rich said it's not a great idea to ask specific legal advice on a forum and IANAL so take this for what it is worth, I have posted this list before so here it is again:

    Federal Buildings and Property (with the exception of Federal Parks) off limits by Federal law. As Rich said remember the US Post Office.

    School property in CT (K-12) off limits by CT State law, although Federal Law also builds a "gun free school zone" off the actual school property there is an exemption if you are a permit holder in the state in which the school is thus only the property itself is off limits and the off property "school zone" does not apply to CT permit holders when travelling past schools in CT.

    Any place the legislature meets, for us in CT that is in the Capitol and Legislative Office Building, this is by CT State Statute. Some people believe this extends to local town halls as your local town council are legislators but I have never seen anyone charged in a town hall, in fact there was an incident last year of a "man w/a gun" call at Middletown town hall and the police swarmed the guy with guns pointed at him, turned out the guy was a retired State Trooper, no arrest or charges filed, not sure how that would have played out if he was not a former "man in blue".

    All CT court houses and probation/parole offices, this is per Judicial Decree and not state statute.

    If you work for a company that is working at a state owned property under contract with the state you cannot carry on the job site. This is per Gubernatorial Decree (thank you John Rowland), so if you work for John's Electric and they get a contract to upgrade the wiring at the DOT building you cannot carry to work.

    Casinos in CT are technically not in CT, they are sovereign nations and both tribes have tribal laws that prohibit the possession of firearms on any property owned by the tribes without the express written permission of the tribal council.

    Additionally, under CT law the person(s) in control of a premises or property can prohibit the possession of handguns (or other weapons) on their property, unfortunatly the state does not require them to have any standard form of notification (like a big yellow sign) so you really have to keep your eyes open when you enter different places for notices or signs, violation of this with no clearly visible signage or other notice will probably just result in you being asked to leave if they found out or saw you were carrying.

    Due to the above statute wording the DEEP has prohibted firearms in State Parks, Forests and Campgrounds with certain exceptions for hunting or access to the ranges located in State Forests.

    Again related to the above statute, if you see a metal detector at the entrance they probably prohibit firearms, not always though, I went into Colt and they have a metal detector at the entrance but I was allowed to walk right in with both the gun that needed service and my carry firearm without issue.

    That's about it, I too hear a lot of people saying you cannot carry into bars, banks, local parks, restaraunts that serve alcohol, etc...it's just not true as a "blanket rule" only if the person in control of the premises prohibits carrying as stated above.
    Last edited by brk913; 05-21-2012 at 07:14 AM.
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    I can imagine it can be frustrating explaining this to every new gun/forum person. With that said I deeply appreciate the help and patience. I understand that forums are not gospel, but a great starter to pointing me in the right direction. Again, thank you.


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    Regular Member brk913's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecrom83 View Post
    I can imagine it can be frustrating explaining this to every new gun/forum person. With that said I deeply appreciate the help and patience. I understand that forums are not gospel, but a great starter to pointing me in the right direction. Again, thank you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not frustrating at all, glad to help, it's just internet forum advice should not to be confused with real legal advice. Some states have a nice list clearly printed of where you cannot carry, CT, however, decides to leave everyone in the dark and scatters it's "prohibitions" throughout state statute, Gubernatorial and Judicial decree and the confusing "anyone who controls premises or property." CT really leaves permit holders on their own to figure out where handguns are prohibited, a really bad ides in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post

    If you work for a company that is working at a state owned property under contract with the state you cannot carry on the job site. This is per Gubernatorial Decree (thank you John Rowland), so if you work for John's Electric and they get a contract to upgrade the wiring at the DOT building you cannot carry to work.
    I want to use this to illustrate a finer nuance. If you violate what BRK913 mentioned above, then you have broken the terms of your employment, you have not broken the law. You can be fired. But you won't be arrested. Especially since you would not reasonably be expected to know about this.

    Another example. When I was a college student in New Haven in the late 80s, I carried into and around my college SCSU. I was in violation of the University policy, but not in violation of any laws. They could have expelled me. Based on the violence in the neighborhood that I lived in, it was a chance I was willing to take.

    As others have said: federal property, anywhere the legislature is meeting, any primary and secondary schools and anywhere firearms are prohibited are the places to avoid. Regarding the last item, remember that it is not incumbent upon you to know where they are prohibited. Rather, it is incumbent upon the person who owns or controls the property to provide you with adequate notice. This can take the form of a sign on the door, or a signed waiver, etc.

    A many years ago, I carried my Seecamp into a Dave Matthews concert. There were no signs on the door so I carried in. Shortly after that I was meeting with an attorney for another reason and asked him if he thought they had a policy against weapons and where he thought the notice was. I asked an attorney friend. He asked if I still had the ticket stub, I did. He told me look at the back of the ticket when i got home. I did and there was writing that was too small for even my 20 something eyes to read. He told me that somewhere in there was language saying that weapons were not allowed inside. He also said that it would never stand up in court.

    Bottom line - if there's a sign, don't go in. And don't go into schools.

    Don
    Last edited by dcmdon; 05-21-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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    Just one other thing. There is no prohibition against carrying into bars, restaurants, or places of worship.

    You can not posses a loaded gun if your BAC is above .1%. Note the word LOADED in that sentence.
    And yes, that number is correct. In CT, if your BAC is .08 or .09% you are too drunk to drive, but sober enough to carry a loaded gun. Ha.

    Don

    p.s. Rich, can you help wit citations?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    And yes, that number is correct. In CT, if your BAC is .08 or .09% you are too drunk to drive, but sober enough to carry a loaded gun. Ha.
    Well that makes sense IMO. If you get too drunk to drive and pass out, your 5000lb hunk of all-american inertia will go hurtling into the oncoming lane and into a school bus full of nuns.
    If you get too drunk and pass out while carrying, chances are real good that no one gets hurt. I don't know of too many people that get sloppy drunk while carrying to begin with, but supposing they do, I don't know anyone who thinks murdering people is a better idea while they are drunk than when they are sober.

    Tangent:
    I don't know why everyone thinks this is a natural comparison anyway. It was one of the elements of SB 64 that was so silly. Do we have a bunch of drunk people running around gunning people down outside of bars? On the rare instances we do have those people behaving this way, are they lawfully armed to begin with (or are they New Haven PD?), are they between .08 and .1?

    p.s. Rich, can you help wit citations?
    I would be happy to provide any citations to anything that anyone questions. Just ask.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Do we have a bunch of drunk people running around gunning people down outside of bars? On the rare instances we do have those people behaving this way, are they lawfully armed to begin with (or are they New Haven PD?), are they between .08 and .1?

    I would be happy to provide any citations to anything that anyone questions. Just ask.
    In case anyone didn't catch Rich's reference, the only time I've ever heard of people getting drunk and going on a shooting spree was a bunch of New Haven cops doing exactly that last month.

    Don

    http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...8033754572.txt
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    Oh wait, and this incident last month where a retired NH cop got drunk and accidentally shot his neighbor in Old Saybrook.

    Does anyone see a trend here? Maybe cops shouldn't be allowed to have guns.

    http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...c038363465.txt
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    In both cases I would still argue it was the people at the root of the issue, not the gun and not the alcohol.
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    It's in a separate part of CT state statutes, but EMT and Paramedics can't carry while on duty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asterus View Post
    It's in a separate part of CT state statutes, but EMT and Paramedics can't carry while on duty.
    Cite the statute please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich B View Post
    Cite the statute please.
    Ha. You beat me to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    I want to use this to illustrate a finer nuance. If you violate what BRK913 mentioned above, then you have broken the terms of your employment, you have not broken the law. You can be fired. But you won't be arrested. Especially since you would not reasonably be expected to know about this.
    Once again you are WRONG about this topic. If you enter a state owned property while working for a company on a state contract you will be violating CGS 29-28(e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises. "

    Penalty for violating this is in CGS 29-37 " Sec. 29-37. Penalties. (a) Any person violating any provision of section 29-28 or 29-31 shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than three years or both, and any pistol or revolver found in the possession of any person in violation of any of said provisions shall be forfeited."

    A jail term of up to 3 years makes this a FELONY.

    Executive orders are laws. You are expected to know the laws, you do not need to be notifed of what's legal and what's not, that's your job as a free citizen. As a permit holder you need to know what's prohibited by law, it's not anyone's job to tell you. The information is easily acccessible if you look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brk913 View Post
    Once again you are WRONG about this topic. If you enter a state owned property while working for a company on a state contract you will be violating CGS 29-28(e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises. "

    Penalty for violating this is in CGS 29-37 " Sec. 29-37. Penalties. (a) Any person violating any provision of section 29-28 or 29-31 shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than three years or both, and any pistol or revolver found in the possession of any person in violation of any of said provisions shall be forfeited."

    A jail term of up to 3 years makes this a FELONY.

    Executive orders are laws. You are expected to know the laws, you do not need to be notifed of what's legal and what's not, that's your job as a free citizen. As a permit holder you need to know what's prohibited by law, it's not anyone's job to tell you. The information is easily acccessible if you look.
    I'm still waiting for the citation that says that it is unlawful to enter state owned property armed while working for a company on a state contract. Again, if the statute prohibits entry under these circumstances, I agree its your responsibility to know the law. Just like its not a primary school's responsibility to post signs.

    HOWEVER if entry is otherwise lawful, and the property owner had decided that they do not allow firearms inside, it is THEIR responsibility to let you know. Practical experience has proven this to be true time and time again. There are well over 100 instances of CT people OCing being asked to leave a store and complying with no police involvement.

    I'm not debating that if this statute actually exists re working on a state contract, you would be in violation of 29-37, I simply asked for a citation to support your assertion that its unlawful to enter if on a contract.

    By my look at the state website, CGS 29-28e does not exist. Here is a proper citation: http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/Ch...#Sec29-28a.htm

    **edit**my mistake. I was accidentally looking at 529-29. This however actually reinforces my point that a citation has not been given for the specific statute relating to the prohibition against contractors being armed***

    Based on this , the statutes skip from 29-28a right to 29-29. I'm not 100% sure, I've got it right, so if you have it somewhere else, I'm open to enlightenment.

    So, I'm still waiting for that citation (with a link to the actual statute on a state web site)

    Ignorance is curable, whether its my ignorance or yours. Either way, I've provided a link showing the absence of the statute you referenced. If you can provide a link to a statute making it unlawful for anyone who is working on a contract to be in a state building armed, then you win. You will have helped cure me of my ignorance. If you can't provide a citation to a CGS, well, then I win.

    Thanks,

    Don
    Last edited by dcmdon; 05-22-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    By my look at the state website, CGS 29-28e does not exist. Here is a proper citation: http://www.cga.ct.gov/current/pub/Ch...#Sec29-28a.htm
    He means CGS 29-28(e) I am sure:

    (e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises.
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    So we're still waiting on the citation with a link stating that it is unlawful to enter state property armed while working on a state contract.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    So we're still waiting on the citation with a link stating that it is unlawful to enter state property armed while working on a state contract.
    Well this is the executive order:

    http://www.ct.gov/opm/lib/opm/olr/wpv/exc16.pdf

    I am not 'up' on the ins and outs of executive orders honestly.

    That each agency must prominently post this policy and that all managers
    and supervisors must clearly communicate this policy to all state
    employees.

    Looks like a good reason to never work for the State. Not like anyone should need another one...
    Last edited by Rich B; 05-22-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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    Based on the language, it appears that the state recognizes that they must disclose the presence of this policy, for it to have any legal authority.

    So again, we're back to my original point. If there's no notification, you are clean.
    Last edited by dcmdon; 05-22-2012 at 04:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    And it appears that they are aware that they must inform the workers for it to have any legal authority.
    If I am reading it correctly it also does not even attempt to indicate that the employee will be arrested for carrying a weapon, only that they can be dismissed and the weapon confiscated.

    Looks like a typical mess.
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    Well, if they have been properly notified and its properly documented, then they could be punished under 29-28(e). Which as BRK913 pointed out could be up to 3 yrs.
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    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcmdon View Post
    Well, if they have been properly notified and its properly documented, then they could be punished under 29-28(e). Which as BRK913 pointed out could be up to 3 yrs.

    That is why I found it interesting.
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