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Thread: OC in stores not meeting signage requirements?

  1. #1
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    OC in stores not meeting signage requirements?

    In Missouri there are rules for signage for it to be legally binding in terms of barring carry of firearms (except protected classes), in particular in Rolla, MO the Taco Bell and Dairy Queen both post signs, however one is faded to the point the letters cannot be made out and the other is below the mandatory sizing for lettering (1" tall). Now as the signs are not to requirements of state law I've thought of OCing into these places to see what happens and see if I have another reason to stop eating at these places other than health . Now of course I'll honor anything a manager asks, but has anyone else here ever tried this anywhere (not just Missouri)?

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    I usually "pseudo CCW" in that I'll have some sort of cover garment but not try too hard in such places. For example, a jacket tied around the waist or an untucked shirt with obvious printing.

    Never been hassled.

    Of course, I usually prefer to avoid such places altogether. Even if the signage is not proper or doesn't have the force of law, they've made it clear they don't want my business, so why should I give them my money?

  3. #3
    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    In Pa.,There aren't any rules for signage that I know of. They don't have to put up a sign. But an establishment can ask you to leave or leave your gun outside, and that is their right. You must abide. I always OC into these places, restaurants, stores, whatever, I haven't had anybody ever ask me not to so far. If they do, I will surely comply. P.S. Bars and taverns are legal OC places also, except again, unless the owners make it clear, whether verbally or by signage that it's not.
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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgangmob View Post
    I've thought of OCing into these places to see what happens
    I'd ask what your motivation for OCing in the first place is. If it's to create a sensation and provoke a confrontation, then by all means, ignore the out-of-code signs and carry on. Draw attention to yourself - and be sure to record the ensuing confrontation and post it on YouTube so you can have your 15 minutes.

    If you're OCing for self-defense purposes, then I'd suggest respecting the intent and wishes of the restaurants in question by either temporarily giving up your right to self-defense, choosing to utilize the drive thru window, or choosing an OC-friendly/neutral establishment as an alternative.

    It's one thing to miss an out-of-code sign (or even a within-code sign) and another to simply ignore it because you're trying to exploit a technicality. In the latter scenario, what is your ultimate goal? To have the establishment post a compliant sign? I'm pretty sure you could do that by having a 10 second conversation with the store managers.
    Last edited by NoTolerance; 05-21-2012 at 11:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    There are 3 reasons that I OC.

    One is that I do not (yet) have a concealed handgun license.

    Two is that I am old, fat and slow and just don't feel like concealing (hence, number one, above)

    Three is that there are some locations in Ohio that are not following the laws of the state. These places are where we need to exploit loopholes to force attention to an issue.

    Knowingly going into an establishment JUST because their signage doesn't meet the letter of the law, a prosecutor could screw up your life because they were following the spirit of the law.

    You might win the appeal. Eventually. Give it a try. It's your time and money.

    I agree with arma above...they don't want your money. Why give it to them?
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  6. #6
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    No sign? No problem!
    Last edited by Logan 5; 05-22-2012 at 05:28 AM.
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    In Michigan the signs hold no legal weight however if its private property and they ask you to leave and you don't you can be charged with trespassing.

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    If you have the time and $$$ to get into a p1ssing match with the city, feel free do it....but send me some change before you do it...I need some ammo.
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    Regular Member HighFlyingA380's Avatar
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    FYI, try to post this type of topic in the MO forum, since states all have varying laws. In mo, even if the sign meets the requirements of the law, the only thing that will happen is they will ask you to leave. If you don't, then you can be cited for trespassing. Even if the sign doesn't meet the requirements, once they ask you to leave, you have to. As many have said before, I too generally try to stay away from those places anyway. Now, most of these signs that I have seen only specify concealed carry, but they don't know the difference, and may ask you to leave. Now, I have been to a few places where the sign was posted, but they didn't say anything. If you want to, I'd say just go ahead. Nothin' bad can happen, unless you become and a$$ and refuse to leave. You'll probably find that most employees don't even know that sign is there. I just went into my old workplace the other day, and noticed the sign for the first time in about 4 years. I asked my friend who, is the manager, and he said it has been there since opening day. (But he did give me specific permission to carry. He laughed when I told him I have been for a while, and explained exactly what this thread is about, and that all the legal carriers are carrying here anyway. He's going to talk to corporate about taking the sign down.)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    There are 3 reasons that I OC.

    One is that I do not (yet) have a concealed handgun license.

    Two is that I am old, fat and slow and just don't feel like concealing (hence, number one, above)

    Three is that there are some locations in Ohio that are not following the laws of the state. These places are where we need to exploit loopholes to force attention to an issue.

    Knowingly going into an establishment JUST because their signage doesn't meet the letter of the law, a prosecutor could screw up your life because they were following the spirit of the law.

    You might win the appeal. Eventually. Give it a try. It's your time and money.

    I agree with arma above...they don't want your money. Why give it to them?


    If I end up in a court getting my life screwed up for OC I did a hell of a lot more than walk into a place with a no gun sign. MO law is simple, if asked to leave you must, regardless of the signage, if a cop shows up and the signage never meets state requirements (even though the law only applies to CC) it holds no legal bearing. If the sign does meet the requirement and is ignored you could face tresspassing if you do not leave immediately after having it pointed out. I feel places posting signs need to either keep it up to code and have it easily visible (not in a corner of the glass of a door) or take it down, I don't care if a place wishes to post a sign, but they need to do it in full or not even bother. I would rather make a place aware and force them to take a strong stance then have them occasionally enforce a sometimes policy.
    Last edited by wolfgangmob; 05-28-2012 at 05:04 AM.

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