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Thread: Glock 22's "go off" when struck with rifle bullets...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Glock 22's "go off" when struck with rifle bullets...

    Apparently, in Baltimore, they do...

    Recently a thug was convicted of multiple counts, including attempted first degree murder, and weapons charges, following a July 2011 incident, where he allegedly fired 5 shots at a BPD officer. One of the bullets struck the officer's holstered service weapon, "causing it to discharge several times"...

    Uh, yeah, right...

    The bullet struck Officer Zadura's holstered weapon, causing it to discharge multiple times. Officer Zdura suffered blunt force trauma and shrapnel wounds. He has since recovered and returned to work.
    http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/reg...ficer-shooting

    I'm sure that Gaston Glock might have a thing or two to say about BPD's account of what REALLY caused Officer Zdura's Glock to "discharge multiple times" while "in the holster"...

    Just sayin'.

    I'm going to go make some popcorn now...

    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-21-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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    Thumbs up

    LOL!!! What brazen hooey! No lie is too bold for them now.

    If this was truly the case, I would expect nothing less from our holy paladins of public order than to refer their fallen brother to the BATFE, for a charge of illegal possession of an automatic weapon! We know they would never stoop so low as to cover up the crime of another, not even one they were bound to by personal and professional ties...
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 05-21-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    WOW, that was a convoluted story. why in the world would he have shot at the officer. just to relive stress!!! strange story
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    WOW, that was a convoluted story. why in the world would he have shot at the officer. just to relive stress!!! strange story
    Thats Baltimore for you.
    Hollywood couldnt make up the things that go on there.

    Police departments all over America only hire people that have no criminal records. In Maryland, I think they only hire you as a police officer if you do have a criminal past.

    Makes getting the "dirty work" done much easier.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Getting back to the runaway Glock part of the story - I'm putting the question to the gunsmiths and mechanical engineers:

    Is it possibble that a bullet could hit a Glock so as to cause a malfunction of the sear or striker such to bring about this situation?

    I realize that it would need a "miracle shot" to do so, but I'm looking only for an answer in the realm of possibility, not probability.

    In the meantime, please pass the popcorn.

    stay safe.
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    Not sure it's possible with a Glock, but maybe..

    Know for a FACT it can happen with M16A2's and M4's- had it happen to a platoon-mate once in one situation, in which enemy AK fire ( 1 x round) that hit the side of his upper (just below the ejection port, slightly forward of the forward assist). This, cooked-off a chambered round, and that round firing, cooked-off the next one in the mag, cycled the action, etc., and he ended up holding onto what we call a "runaway gun" for about 3 -4 rounds.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    Is it possibble that a bullet could hit a Glock so as to cause a malfunction of the sear or striker such to bring about this situation?

    I realize that it would need a "miracle shot" to do so, but I'm looking only for an answer in the realm of possibility, not probability.

    Even if it were possible, I highly doubt it would make the Glock in question turn into a fully automatic pistol.
    From the news story:"causing it to discharge several times"...
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  8. #8
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    I think that this story needs to be submitted to Addam and Jamie, the Mythbusters.

    They like to do gun stories like this one.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Getting back to the runaway Glock part of the story - I'm putting the question to the gunsmiths and mechanical engineers: Is it possibble that a bullet could hit a Glock so as to cause a malfunction of the sear or striker such to bring about this situation?

    I realize that it would need a "miracle shot" to do so, but I'm looking only for an answer in the realm of possibility, not probability. In the meantime, please pass the popcorn. stay safe.
    The story suggests that it did happen and, thus, is possible. Otherwise the personal attacks on the author would be flowing.

    Consider that the possibility is not repeatable and is not susceptible to frequentist statistics, that require many tests to produce validity. Unique occurrences can be analyzed by Bayesian statistics, starting with the naive prior, that can be subjectively impossible or (XOR) certainly probable (p=0 XOR p=1) or objectively may happen (p≈0.5).

    Assume that an impulse of sufficient magnitude and direction will achieve the desired result. How large is that universe of possibility? Consider the object of interest lying at the origin of a 3-sphere [x,y,z = 0,0,0]. Impulses directed orthogonal to the action might be eliminated, leaving 1 dimension only [x] of a line parallel and anti-parallel to the action.

    Just this first estimation suggests that there are vastly more directions from which an impulse might arrive than the few of adequate magnitude and direction, and magnitude has not even been considered! It is highly unlikely to be true that a bullet strike impulse will fire a gun.

    The likelihood of damage so precise as to cause multiple discharges boggles the mind.

  10. #10
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    could this be a misinterpretation of what happened?

    let's say the incoming hit the rounds in the magazine. would that have set off a few rounds?

    noticed that the officer was treated for shrapnel instead of a gun shot
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Not sure it's possible with a Glock, but maybe..

    Know for a FACT it can happen with M16A2's and M4's- had it happen to a platoon-mate once in one situation, in which enemy AK fire ( 1 x round) that hit the side of his upper (just below the ejection port, slightly forward of the forward assist). This, cooked-off a chambered round, and that round firing, cooked-off the next one in the mag, cycled the action, etc., and he ended up holding onto what we call a "runaway gun" for about 3 -4 rounds.
    But M16s and M4s already have an automatic sear, the handgun doesn't. Not that it couldn't happen, it just seems odd to me that the rounds wait to be cooked off until they are in the barrel (though I guess if the barrel itself is hot enough that could be why they only go off in the barrel and a malfunction with the sear wouldn't be needed).

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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    But M16s and M4s already have an automatic sear, the handgun doesn't. Not that it couldn't happen, it just seems odd to me that the rounds wait to be cooked off until they are in the barrel (though I guess if the barrel itself is hot enough that could be why they only go off in the barrel and a malfunction with the sear wouldn't be needed).
    I once fired an M9 where the pistol was so worn out that 3 trigger squeezes resulted in an empty magazine. I also heard about a guy at a range in Manchester, NH that filed his sear to make a hair trigger and ended up with a machine pistol. Essentially after the first round was fired he had a runaway gun. He almost killed somebody as the story goes.
    Not saying this is what happened in Baltimore, just relating a story.
    What papa bear said makes sense though. I wonder if an incoming round struck the magazine well, could it cook off the rounds while in the magazine, resulting in the officer's shrapnel wounds? Any engineers wanna run the numbers? Ballistics of an SKS @ some-odd range vs. magazine + magazine well + holster = rounds cooking off. Something like that.
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    Let's first assume this was a leather snap holster or some other variation of a snap type holster. and that the officer had unsnapped it a the danger emerged.

    What if the bullet were to have struck the holster in a fashion to have indented the area covering the trigger guard. This could have caused the initial discharge. Would we agree this is possible depending on his holster type?

    Then what if the action of the holster caused the firearm to rise out of the unsnapped open top holster while the officers hand was on his grip. This would cause the trigger to reset and allow for another discharge if the officer were to apply sufficient pressure pushing the firearm back down. This would cause an additional discharge. This would continue until one or more variables changed.

    The result would be a "bump fire" situation occurring while holstered.

    It's one in a million by I say plausible.

  14. #14
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    The only problem I see with that is that the article says he was conducting an interview. That leads me to believe all retention devices were engaged. He would have no reason to think he was about about to have contact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by decklin View Post
    I once fired an M9 where the pistol was so worn out that 3 trigger squeezes resulted in an empty magazine. I also heard about a guy at a range in Manchester, NH that filed his sear to make a hair trigger and ended up with a machine pistol. Essentially after the first round was fired he had a runaway gun. He almost killed somebody as the story goes.
    Not saying this is what happened in Baltimore, just relating a story.
    What papa bear said makes sense though. I wonder if an incoming round struck the magazine well, could it cook off the rounds while in the magazine, resulting in the officer's shrapnel wounds? Any engineers wanna run the numbers? Ballistics of an SKS @ some-odd range vs. magazine + magazine well + holster = rounds cooking off. Something like that.
    Oh I believe what papa bear said could happen and to me that makes more sense. What I had quoted seemed to be saying that the rounds were only cooking off once they were chambered and were not going off in the mag.

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    Similarly if there was enough room for the gun to cycle and rise out of the holster and recycle, there is a possible scenario where this could happen.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Saber379's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I think that this story needs to be submitted to Addam and Jamie, the Mythbusters.

    They like to do gun stories like this one.
    done

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    I could see if material from the holster made its way into the trigger guard it would fire the weapon, then it may have acted like a bump fire effect where the recoil of the weapon moved it back and then the holster caused a down ward pressure to reapply the needed force to activate the trigger again. Seem like a miracle on top of a miracle event, but I could see that.

    Hitting the slide with anything less than a high powered rifle is not likely to do anything to damage the Glock however.

    The likelihood of damage so precise as to cause multiple discharges boggles the mind.
    Well said.


    Edit: Ahh SKS, yea I could see it causing enough damage to do this. Very unlikely, but rare events do occur.
    Last edited by Xulld; 05-24-2012 at 03:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    The story suggests that it did happen and, thus, is possible. Otherwise the personal attacks on the author would be flowing.

    Consider that the possibility is not repeatable and is not susceptible to frequentist statistics, that require many tests to produce validity. Unique occurrences can be analyzed by Bayesian statistics, starting with the naive prior, that can be subjectively impossible or (XOR) certainly probable (p=0 XOR p=1) or objectively may happen (p≈0.5).

    Assume that an impulse of sufficient magnitude and direction will achieve the desired result. How large is that universe of possibility? Consider the object of interest lying at the origin of a 3-sphere [x,y,z = 0,0,0]. Impulses directed orthogonal to the action might be eliminated, leaving 1 dimension only [x] of a line parallel and anti-parallel to the action.

    Just this first estimation suggests that there are vastly more directions from which an impulse might arrive than the few of adequate magnitude and direction, and magnitude has not even been considered! It is highly unlikely to be true that a bullet strike impulse will fire a gun.

    The likelihood of damage so precise as to cause multiple discharges boggles the mind.
    What the hell did he just say?
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