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Thread: Stopped by LEO's on 8th ave in Huntington

  1. #1
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    Stopped by LEO's on 8th ave in Huntington

    First let me state that overall the officers i encountered on my way to work this morning were overall professional. they were not aggressive or rude per se.
    i stopped at speedway for my coffee and walked right past the driver side window (which was open) of a police cruiser while OC. So that put my pistol right in LEO's eye level. He milled around the parking lot while i was inside and seemed to be waiting for me to be a problem. i paid for my coffee, got in my truck and headed on down the road. He followed me, and since I have out of state plates on my truck he pulled me over on 8th ave. I shut off my vehicle and remained buckled in, hands on the wheel. two more cruisers showed up. then i was ordered to place my hands out the window. i complied. An officer with a drawn weapon appeared by my passenger side window, glock drawn, but did not point it at anybody, he just watched me exit and watched my pistol, which was in open view on the seat. I was patted down, my spare mag, and little pocket knife were taken (temporarily) and then i was questioned a bit. I didnt really say anything except my name. and that i live here. When the shift commander stated that the right to open carry was only guaranteed to West Virginia citizens I knew I had them. All I said was

    "really? can you tell me which law that is?" he says " wait here"
    Comes back with a book from the attorney generals office: " it says here that according to the AG.... (i know you have all read that snippet on the site before so i wont beat a dead horse)
    i reply "well sir, that is the AG's opinion, but that is not a law, he is the chief attorney, but the legislature makes the laws, and they have said nothing of the sort."
    From there he sort of relaxed a bit, and then told me i need to update my tags since ive been in WV for more than 6 months. i thanked him for setting me straight on my tags and they let me go. at the next stop light, the original officer who stopped me shouts through his window, "I like your SIG man!"
    End of encounter.

    Just thought Id share and hear any thoughts from the forum about what could be done better, worse. Gotta get back to work. OUT

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    It's very unfortunate that they illegally stopped your vehicle with no RAS that a crime was afoot.

    Though, given the the information they have it's not surprising they would do such a thing. Further action should be taken to help visitors to WV feel less uneasy about their encounters with LEOs of the state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComradeV View Post
    It's very unfortunate that they illegally stopped your vehicle with no RAS that a crime was afoot.

    Though, given the the information they have it's not surprising they would do such a thing. Further action should be taken to help visitors to WV feel less uneasy about their encounters with LEOs of the state.
    They actually said that because i was open carrying, and my truck has out of state plates, that they had suspicion of me breaking the law. however, the "law" they thought i was breaking was just the AG's opinion and not actually a law. I look at it as a minor inconvenience where i was able to educate the Police a bit without it getting out of control. Although technically i never consented to search, and they did go in my truck and inspect my weapon. but i do agree that visitors should here about this things and see that it is not always the end of the world when the police stop you in WV.

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    Love this, good for all OC's, and it helped regulate the HPD that people who OC are more than likely the ones they dont have to worry about. But they were cool in not citing you for your tags and your drivers they did have you there. I think its 30 days to cahnge your adress but not sure it may be a bit longer.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

  5. #5
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    JeffTL, my family travels to WV and open carries while visiting. We never had any trouble. We have had several occasions in Martinsburg where LEOs have seen us open carrying and definitely saw our license plate was a SC plate, and nothing happened.

    It sounds like those officers was trying to intimidate you, harass you, or they think the AG makes the laws.

    It would help the people that visit WV from out of state if you could you make sure the department those LEOs work for is educated about the legality of non-residents open carrying.

    Call the LEOs supervisors, make a paper trail of your complaint, etc...

    There may be better ways to get the department educated. Maybe some other can chime in with there experience in this area.

    What happened to you was VERY wrong. I wouldn't let the LEOs or there department get away with it no matter how professional they were. You weren't doing anything illegal and they had NO RAS to stop you.

    They stopped you without RAS and it sounds like they illegally searched your vehicle. Please don't let this go.

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech
    It sounds like those officers was trying to intimidate you, harass you, or they think the AG makes the laws.
    ... Call the LEOs supervisors, make a paper trail of your complaint, etc...
    ... What happened to you was VERY wrong.
    ... They stopped you without RAS and it sounds like they illegally searched your vehicle. Please don't let this go.
    What he said.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffTL
    ...the officers ... were overall professional.
    ... i was ordered to place my hands out the window.
    ... An officer with a drawn weapon appeared by my passenger side window
    ... I was patted down, my spare mag, and little pocket knife were taken (temporarily) and then i was questioned a bit.
    Once you felt you weren't free to leave, you were under arrest.
    I'd say that being pulled over w/ lights flashing satisfies that condition, let alone having an officer w/ a gun in hand right there. (Why'd he need to watch your pistol anyway? Is he one of those people who think that guns do things on their own?)
    And why did they think they needed to take a spare magazine? What were you going to do, throw it at someone?

    So they used a show of authority (when they had no legally-backed reason to even stop you),
    the threat of deadly force,
    committed illegal searches & seizures...
    and since they were polite they convinced you that it was OK.
    I think most people start with that idea, & gradually come to see how wrong it is, & that the police are manipulating them & infringing their rights.
    If you're aware of it & submit that's one thing, but don't give in to their tricks just because you don't know any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffTL
    They actually said that because i was open carrying, and my truck has out of state plates, that they had suspicion of me breaking the law.
    ... i never consented to search, and they did go in my truck and inspect my weapon.
    Except that the peaceful exercise of a protected civil right is not & can never be a crime.
    Plus they searched you & your car w/o RAS, consent, or a warrant.
    Civil rights violations all around, under color of law & with unreasonable threat of deadly force.
    And I'll bet that they ran the serial number on your pistol. Congrat's - you now have a crime gun.

    If they force you to get out of your car, lock the doors (the windows are already rolled up, right?) & close the driver's door behind you.
    Pocket the keys.
    Makes it MUCH harder for them to justify a search. (DAMHIK)
    Nothing in that car is in your reach, so can't be used to harm them.
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  7. #7
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    What he said.


    Once you felt you weren't free to leave, you were under arrest.
    I'd say that being pulled over w/ lights flashing satisfies that condition, let alone having an officer w/ a gun in hand right there. (Why'd he need to watch your pistol anyway? Is he one of those people who think that guns do things on their own?)
    And why did they think they needed to take a spare magazine? What were you going to do, throw it at someone?

    So they used a show of authority (when they had no legally-backed reason to even stop you),
    the threat of deadly force,
    committed illegal searches & seizures...
    and since they were polite they convinced you that it was OK.
    I think most people start with that idea, & gradually come to see how wrong it is, & that the police are manipulating them & infringing their rights.
    If you're aware of it & submit that's one thing, but don't give in to their tricks just because you don't know any better.


    Except that the peaceful exercise of a protected civil right is not & can never be a crime.
    Plus they searched you & your car w/o RAS, consent, or a warrant.
    Civil rights violations all around, under color of law & with unreasonable threat of deadly force.
    And I'll bet that they ran the serial number on your pistol. Congrat's - you now have a crime gun.

    If they force you to get out of your car, lock the doors (the windows are already rolled up, right?) & close the driver's door behind you.
    Pocket the keys.
    Makes it MUCH harder for them to justify a search. (DAMHIK)
    Nothing in that car is in your reach, so can't be used to harm them.
    Excellent post! I especially like the idea of locking your car when you get out. This had never occurred to me... though I have never had it happen to me either.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffTL View Post
    Comes back with a book from the attorney generals office: " it says here that according to the AG.... (i know you have all read that snippet on the site before so i wont beat a dead horse)
    i reply "well sir, that is the AG's opinion, but that is not a law, he is the chief attorney, but the legislature makes the laws, and they have said nothing of the sort."
    From there he sort of relaxed a bit, and then told me i need to update my tags since ive been in WV for more than 6 months. i thanked him for setting me straight on my tags and they let me go. at the next stop light, the original officer who stopped me shouts through his window, "I like your SIG man!"
    End of encounter.

    You handled that well...

    Apparently, when the AG published their warnings about how WV LEOs "interpret the law", he forgot to actually ASK the WV State Police how THEY interpret the law on OC. If he had taken the time to look at their freaking website, he would have found this statement:


    Q. Is it lawful to carry weapons (e.g. rifles, shotguns, and pistols) in my vehicle when I travel in West Virginia?

    A. Individuals who possess a valid concealed carry permit may carry a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle for purpose of self defense only. West Virginia permits anyone who can lawfully possess a handgun to carry an unconcealed handgun. If you choose to carry an unconcealed handgun in your vehicle and are stopped by a law-enforcement officer, you must understand that that the weapon will immediately attract the attention of the police officer. The presence of the weapon may lead to action by the officer to ensure his or her safety such as the drawing of his or her weapon, ordering you from the vehicle, and/or performing a pat-down search. Weapons intended for hunting must be unloaded and in a case when transported in a vehicle. It is strongly recommended that, if you do not have a valid concealed carry permit, while traveling in a vehicle, that all firearms be unloaded and cased in a location in the vehicle that is not readily accessible to any of the occupants. Any ammunition should be stored in a separate location from the firearm.



    You may want to include this link with any correspondences to the offending LEA concerning this matter. This link is from the WVSP's own web site, and essentially proves that the WV AG is full of it...

    http://www.statepolice.wv.gov/about/...isionFAQs.aspx
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffTL View Post
    They actually said that because i was open carrying, and my truck has out of state plates, that they had suspicion of me breaking the law.
    No lie too brazen.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
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    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
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  10. #10
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i drove into WV recently from VA on my way home in NC. at once i thought oh sh!t, i don't exactly know the law on open carry in WV. but ,then i called my good friend in Blacksburg and asked him what the laws were. we went over the non-residents thing but then he told me about there was no law that said such. ran into a few people there that didn't know anything about the laws
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffTL View Post
    First let me state that overall the officers i encountered on my way to work this morning were overall professional. they were not aggressive or rude per se.
    i stopped at speedway for my coffee and walked right past the driver side window (which was open) of a police cruiser while OC. So that put my pistol right in LEO's eye level. He milled around the parking lot while i was inside and seemed to be waiting for me to be a problem. i paid for my coffee, got in my truck and headed on down the road. He followed me, and since I have out of state plates on my truck he pulled me over on 8th ave. I shut off my vehicle and remained buckled in, hands on the wheel. two more cruisers showed up. then i was ordered to place my hands out the window. i complied. An officer with a drawn weapon appeared by my passenger side window, glock drawn, but did not point it at anybody, he just watched me exit and watched my pistol, which was in open view on the seat. I was patted down, my spare mag, and little pocket knife were taken (temporarily) and then i was questioned a bit. I didnt really say anything except my name. and that i live here. When the shift commander stated that the right to open carry was only guaranteed to West Virginia citizens I knew I had them. All I said was

    "really? can you tell me which law that is?" he says " wait here"
    Comes back with a book from the attorney generals office: " it says here that according to the AG.... (i know you have all read that snippet on the site before so i wont beat a dead horse)
    i reply "well sir, that is the AG's opinion, but that is not a law, he is the chief attorney, but the legislature makes the laws, and they have said nothing of the sort."
    From there he sort of relaxed a bit, and then told me i need to update my tags since ive been in WV for more than 6 months. i thanked him for setting me straight on my tags and they let me go. at the next stop light, the original officer who stopped me shouts through his window, "I like your SIG man!"
    End of encounter.

    Just thought Id share and hear any thoughts from the forum about what could be done better, worse. Gotta get back to work. OUT
    The original officer seemed to not like your SIG earlier....
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The original officer seemed to not like your SIG earlier....
    Anyone else noticing a trend here in WV?

    It seems that the majority of people who are getting hassled because of OC are carrying expensive, custom, high-quality firearms like Sigs, high-end 1911's and the like.

    I think the LEOs are just jealous...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffTL View Post
    SNIP First let me state that overall the officers i encountered on my way to work this morning were overall professional.
    Except for the various rights violations. No offense, but my definition of a professional cop includes knowing the law cold, and having a deep respect for rights rather than viewing them as impediments to playing cops-and-robbers. Thinking there might be a law against whatever the person is doing doesn't cut it with me. If the cop doesn't know, then there is no way he can know whether he has authority to involuntarily detain someone. If the cop doesn't know, he needs to find out before he goes seizing someone.

    When a cop is polite during an adversarial encounter is the most important time to be on guard. Cops know they need you to talk and give them information to get them from reasonable suspicion to probable cause. They also know that if you shut up, their investigation is pretty much stopped right there. So, the smart ones are going to be very polite to get you to drop your guard.

    The recording is lost in the mists of time, but some of us still remember the two cops who were oh-so polite and friendly when talking to an OCer, but back at the patrol car, one said to the other, "There has got to be something we can nail him for."
    Last edited by Citizen; 05-24-2012 at 12:25 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Two things have come to mind now that ive heard from the forum and had a few days to step back. one is just how quickly 3 police cruisers descended upon me even though i broke no laws. this encounter did not take very long, in fact i was not even late to work. the second is that although they violated my rights, how was i supposed to stop that. im out numbered 3 to 1, and while one cop is asking questions ( which largely went unanswered ) the other two were in my truck. frankly if they are going to enter my vehicle i can not stop them at the scene. I have however decided to file a report with the office of professional conduct. i dont expect much to come from that, but hopefully some of these officers get a little retraining on the laws and dont bother the next guy about his legally carried firearm. thanks to all for your opinions and insights. I will try to do better the next time. OC for life. OUT

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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    I have got to ask..

    "he just watched me exit and watched my pistol, which was in open view on the seat."

    You just walked past LEO...OC'ing....and now the firearm is on the seat?....Is the a concealed carry thing or something?

    You also state that "the other two were in my truck"..so I guess they searched it?..Did you give them permission to do so?

    Just curious
    Last edited by zekester; 05-24-2012 at 12:47 PM.
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  16. #16
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    In WV while in a vechical your self defence weapon must be in plain view unless you have a CCW.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

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    My kids go to college at Marshall and live off campus. When i go visit them i have to open carry as my state and WV at that time did not reciprocate CCW. I got with Huntington and campus PD and talked about how to be legal. I was go to go OC and was told to stick it on the dash of my truck in plan sight or locked case for transport. Never a peep about me being out of state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eamelhorn View Post
    In WV while in a vechical your self defence weapon must be in plain view unless you have a CCW.
    Its not just while in a vehicle. Without a CPRL (Concealed Pistol/revolver Licence) your firearm must follow §61-7-2-10. Having it on the seat certainly qualifies, however, leaving it in its holster on your hip also qualifies. To me, excessive handling of your firearm increases the chance of a negligent discharge. Laying your firearm on the passenger seat isn't very wise. Hard braking, accelerating, and crashes could make your firearm a projectile in and of itself.

    I say to each his own, but once my firearm is secured in its holster on my belt, it doesn't leave the holster. Heck, my carry gun doesn't leave the holster except for cleaning and range time. Its sitting in the holster by my bed right now.


    §61-7-2. Definitions.

    (10) "Concealed" means hidden from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition. A deadly weapon is concealed when it is carried on or about the person in such a manner that another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried.

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    The wonderful WV grey

    Our great state has issue's within the laws,the AG's office and LE concerning OC. The AG's opinion of the guns laws do not match what the legistrators have said, and has put his own biaised opinion in his phamlet, such as, must be a state resident, and if OCing visiable from 3 sides. I know 2 people who are taking criminal justice classes right now, thier instructor uses the AG's opinion phamlet so to speak as teaching books. So now thier beliefe in the law is WRONG, as they were taught this is LAW. We have LEO who have been taught this also. I agree the seat or dash board is not the place to place a weapon. Also it is left up to the LEO to make a determination as, "WHAT IS THIS GUY UP TO" with that gun. The State Police (many of them) feel if its on your hip in a holster while in a car that it is concealed UNTIL you notify them you have a weapon, then once you tell them it has been revealed therefore it is now OPEN, this is not law but some troopers interpution of the law. But what if a city or county cop stops you, they can interput the law differently. Its all in how the LE decides what the law may or should be on that day. The State Police web page mentions guns "not configured for hunting, as being legal in a car. The WV DNR laws makes no distinction in an Open Carried gun being configured for hunting or not, it says no loaded guns period. Of course these statements are paraphrased. Now a legally carried weapon in a car a police officer cannot site you, but they can hold you for DNR if they want or twist the laws to fit the need of the moment to suit thier needs. Many OC'ers dont hunt, many do, I happen to hunt so all my imformation came from the hunting regs, untill I found this site. Any way you cut it OC'ing in a car is legal, also any way you cut it it is illegal. Its that wonderful grey area of WV gun laws. Dont take mine nor anyones word for anything, find out for yourself.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

  20. #20
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eamelhorn View Post
    Also it is left up to the LEO to make a determination as, "WHAT IS THIS GUY UP TO" with that gun.
    Do you have info to back this up? I know about Wheeling ongoing case... But if you have ANY case laws or even anecdotal evidence I'd like to hear it. It's a subject I'm very interested in.

  21. #21
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    Yes I can back this up, im not very PC oriented, I will look up the codes and statutes it will take me a day or so, but I have looked all that I said up. The only exception to the loaded gun in a car is with a CCW. You can read the game laws on line. A police cannot write game law violations, but they can hold you until a Natural Resouce Police officer gets there. If someone wants to be a test case, lay your side arm on the dash pull up to a Game Warrden where he can see you weapon in deer season and watch what he does,LOL. Please dont try that!!!! Our game laws can get you in trouble if a LE wants to push an issue. But read up on game laws in WV and also go to Ask the Natural Resource Police, by reading how a game warrden interputs the law will give some insight to how a WV LEO's mind works.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

  22. #22
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    If I make these statemnts I need to cite the law codes I will look them up.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

  23. #23
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    if i am going down an interstate and a game warden gives me a ticket for carrying a firearm, i would love to meet the judge who would convict in this circumstance
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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