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Thread: Stafford Co. self defense shooting

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    Stafford Co. self defense shooting

    "A Stafford County man was shot and killed late Tuesday after he tried to stab a man who had refused to give him money, police said."


    http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/news...d-in-stafford/

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    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    Will miracles never cease...

    Did you notice that no one called the knife wielder "victim"? In fact, "victim" is not in the article! AMAZING!!

    OOPS. The Free Lunch Star does claim the knife wielder is a "shooting victim". Asshats.

    Patch.com has a much better article and they don't have a victim.
    Last edited by AtackDuck; 05-23-2012 at 03:41 PM.

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    Most people know you shouldn't go around trying to stab people for money. Some have to learn it the hard way. Oh well, one less hard learner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtackDuck View Post
    Did you notice that no one called the knife wielder "victim"? In fact, "victim" is not in the article! AMAZING!!
    Yes, but did you see the comment section where some were blaming the 2 for being parked in a remote, dark lot............. will never understand some people.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    A few more details here, including clarification on the time frame (15-20 minutes) which sounds much more reasonable than "later in the evening":

    http://fredericksburg.patch.com/arti...r-fatally-shot

    TFred

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    A few more details here, including clarification on the time frame (15-20 minutes) which sounds much more reasonable than "later in the evening":

    http://fredericksburg.patch.com/arti...r-fatally-shot

    TFred
    I like the part: Kennedy said the shooter does have a valid concealed weapons permit. Where did he get it?

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    I think you lose the "victim" status when you tell others you're going back to get revenge... Just a thought. Who cares where the couple parked.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    I like the part: Kennedy said the shooter does have a valid concealed weapons permit. Where did he get it?
    Non resident permit from a state that actually issues CWPs instead of CHPs?

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Hard to say without knowing the entire story, but I believe I would first have tried to just roll up my window and drive away.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Hard to say without knowing the entire story, but I believe I would first have tried to just roll up my window and drive away.
    But he needed killing Zoom

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Hard to say without knowing the entire story, but I believe I would first have tried to just roll up my window and drive away.
    That assumes that you have the opportunity to roll up the window, start the car, put it in gear and go. If the car had power windows, you'd need to turn the key to the accessory spot and then roll the windows up. Recall that a person within 20 feet or so can easily get to you with a knife faster than often draw a gun and shoot. The fact that this person had the opportunity to get off a shot is probably all he had time for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Hard to say without knowing the entire story, but I believe I would first have tried to just roll up my window and drive away.
    Patricia Cook tried that... look what happened to her....

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Patricia Cook tried that... look what happened to her....
    You win for best response to a quote....

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Anyone else notice this jewel down the page?

    http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/news...ntary-schools/

    Looks like stupidity at work but how do you charge firearm violations when it is a "PELLET GUN"? I believe it to be an airsoft from the description. By Virginia law doesen't a "firearm" require explosive propellents?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/news...ntary-schools/

    Looks like stupidity at work but how do you charge firearm violations when it is a "PELLET GUN"? I believe it to be an airsoft from the description. By Virginia law doesen't a "firearm" require explosive propellents?
    I think pneumatic is included. My Taser gets hit on to violations if it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/news...ntary-schools/

    Looks like stupidity at work but how do you charge firearm violations when it is a "PELLET GUN"? I believe it to be an airsoft from the description. By Virginia law doesen't a "firearm" require explosive propellents?
    I don't know that statutes in North Carolina, but in Virginia a brandishing charge becomes a felony when it occurs within 1000 feet of a K-12 school (outside of certain exceptions) with both firearms, airguns or items that are similar in appearance to a firearm.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-282
    Last edited by jmelvin; 05-23-2012 at 06:02 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Hard to say without knowing the entire story, but I believe I would first have tried to just roll up my window and drive away.
    From the Patch article that I linked earlier:

    "Approximately 15 to 20 minutes later, the couple observed the man again as he surprised them by approaching the driverís side of the car from the rear in an aggressive manner," Kennedy said. "He allegedly attacked the driver through the driverís window and attempted to stab him without provocation. The attacked driver, while attempting to fight his assailant off, was able to retrieve a handgun located in the glove box of the car. He fired the weapon at his attacker who was hit and fell to the ground. He instructed his female companion to call 911 and stepped from the car to see the second man, who did not participate in the attack, flee on foot."

    TFred

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    More proof why you don't bring a knife to a gun fight......

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    Hard to say without knowing the entire story, but I believe I would first have tried to just roll up my window and drive away.
    I don't know about that ! I heard action like that constitutes the use of deadly force in culpeper

    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    More proof why you don't bring a knife to a gun fight......
    And its more proof why everyone should take the protection of their own life back into their hands. Not that I like to see people hurt, but if more were to carry and defend themselves, crime such as this would lower pretty darn quick IMHO.
    Last edited by ryan7068; 05-24-2012 at 10:38 AM.
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan7068 View Post
    I don't know about that ! I heard action like that constitutes the use of deadly force in culpeper



    And its more proof why everyone should take the protection of their own life back into their hands. Not that I like to see people hurt, but if more were to carry and defend themselves, crime such as this would lower pretty darn quick IMHO.
    Whether crime goes up or goes down is rather irrelevant, frankly. What does matter is that people are able to protect themselves as you say.

    The only reason I comment about crime going up or down is because it is purely a utilitarian argument that can be used against gun ownership just as easily as it can be used for it. If you tie the two together, you reasonably have to make the argument that if gun ownership and crime both go up then it's time to reduce gun ownership (if you've previously stated that people should be able to own guns because it makes the crime rate go down). If you simply start with the idea people should be able to carry guns because each person's life is of value and a person has a right to live, then you don't have any argument against it unless you completely discount the value of a person's life and don't recognize that person has a right to live.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 05-24-2012 at 10:59 AM.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    This event is not over yet. The commonwealth can still place charges if they decide to.

    If this had taken place in the city-county I live in, I firmly believe the shooter would have been charged. The commonwealth would claim overkill, as in you didn't really need to shoot and kill a man over $1. Then it will cost $75,000 to $100,000 to prove self defense to a jury. And even then, you have a 50/50 chance of the liberal minded jury not buying into your self defense claim.

    I also believe that the further north you go in Virginia, the more likely you are to charged in any type of shooting, self defense or not.
    So how many times are you suppose to let someone stab you before it is ok to return fire? Three, four, or maybe five, does he have to hit a vital organ first or is it determained on the amount of blood loss? These are questions I would ask the jury if charged.

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    Regular Member ryan7068's Avatar
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    well stated jmelvin!
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    This event is not over yet. The commonwealth can still place charges if they decide to.

    If this had taken place in the city-county I live in, I firmly believe the shooter would have been charged. The commonwealth would claim overkill, as in you didn't really need to shoot and kill a man over $1. Then it will cost $75,000 to $100,000 to prove self defense to a jury. And even then, you have a 50/50 chance of the liberal minded jury not buying into your self defense claim.

    I also believe that the further north you go in Virginia, the more likely you are to charged in any type of shooting, self defense or not.
    If charges were brought against a victim who used deadly force to counter a deadly attack, I'd say he would have a very good case for his defense. Remember he wasn't being robbed according to the report, he was being attacked.

    "I also believe that the further north you go in Virginia, the more likely you are to charged in any type of shooting, self defense or not."

    This depends on the county or city up here. If you are in Prince William, I would wager you'd be better off than in Arlington or Falls Church. Our commonwealth's attorney doesn't like criminals.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    this ain't an "ideal world"

    In an ideal world there is no reason the shooter should have to make his "good case". The likelyhood of facing charges does appear to increase as one nears that Beltway of Blight up nawth.
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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    But he needed killing Zoom
    If we could use that as a valid defense, traffic would be a lot lighter in the mornings.

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