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Thread: Loaded car carry

  1. #1
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    Loaded car carry

    I know according to RCW 9.41.050 you cannot carry loaded in a car

    **** (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    But it also states unless you have a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    It does not state this has to be a Washington license. I would like to open carry loaded in my car in Washington and have an Oregon permit (I know they are not reciprocal). Anyone tested the language of the law?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    I know according to RCW 9.41.050 you cannot carry loaded in a car

    **** (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    But it also states unless you have a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    It does not state this has to be a Washington license. I would like to open carry loaded in my car in Washington and have an Oregon permit (I know they are not reciprocal). Anyone tested the language of the law?
    Any license that WA recognizes is fine. But if it is a state that is not, then you do not have a valid CPL for WA and is against the law to CC or have a loaded firearm in a car. The reason being is the gun is concealed while it is in a vehicle so thats why they require a CPL

    So rather than being in trouble for a loaded gun in the vehicle, they would charge you with having a concealed pistol without a license
    Last edited by rlacsamana1989; 05-23-2012 at 09:58 PM.

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    A CPL is $55.25 and is available to non-residents so you might just as well apply for one next time your in Washington. You can apply as a non-resident at any police or sheriff station.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    Any license that WA recognizes is fine. But if it is a state that is not, then you do not have a valid CPL for WA and is against the law to CC or have a loaded firearm in a car. The reason being is the gun is concealed while it is in a vehicle so thats why they require a CPL

    So rather than being in trouble for a loaded gun in the vehicle, they would charge you with having a concealed pistol without a license
    Thank you kinda what I figures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger54 View Post
    A CPL is $55.25 and is available to non-residents so you might just as well apply for one next time your in Washington. You can apply as a non-resident at any police or sheriff station.
    For the last 18 years I have been saying I need to get my WA CPL but I keep putting it off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    For the last 18 years I have been saying I need to get my WA CPL but I keep putting it off.
    Now is as good a time as any. I was the same about my Oregon CHL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    I know according to RCW 9.41.050 you cannot carry loaded in a car

    **** (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    But it also states unless you have a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    It does not state this has to be a Washington license. I would like to open carry loaded in my car in Washington and have an Oregon permit (I know they are not reciprocal). Anyone tested the language of the law?
    Look at RCW 9.41.060...there are exceptions to .050, quite a few actually. If you fall into one of those exceptions you can have a loaded PISTOL in the car...you can never have a loaded longgun...(that's F&W rules) As to generalloaded carry on a CPL...any CPL that is recognized by the state..that is in RCW 9.41.073 if you want to read the criteria. We do not have official reciprocity with OR, but I think that is an OR problem...read the criteria. Idaho's problem is the "must be 21", I do not know other specific states but I understand mostly it's the manditory mental health history check.

    Our CPL is super simple. Any non-resident can go to any sheriff's office in the state. (Smaller counties are generally easier just because of less human traffic in them) Fill out an app, they take your fingerprints and your money (cash please) and in 0 to 60 days your permit will be mailed to you. They must have the permit to you by 60 days (non-resident, 30 days resident) but usually it is much quicker than that..like I said small counties, like mine, takes a couple days, or if you have prearranged, it may be possible to do it in 0 days, you do have to go to the Sheriff's office for the fingerprints though.
    Last edited by hermannr; 05-24-2012 at 02:07 AM.

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    A couple more questions. According to RCW 9.41.060 I can OC if I am camping, hiking, etc. Or traveling to or from said activity.

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area

    What is classified as being engaged in a lawful outdoor recreational activity? And what is classified as traveling to or from one of these activities? I will be headed from Oregon to Goldendale to camp, can I OC in a car do to this? What if I was headed through WA to go camping in Montana? The laws seem a little ambiguous.

    Thanks for your input.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Sethrotull you are able to open carry regardless of RCW 9.41.060 as Washington is an open carry state.
    What it boils down to is that to conceal carry and/or carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle while engaging into an lawful engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity.

    I take this as if I am going to and from home or to enjoy an outdoor recreational activity you are fine, if you are going shopping downtown for the day, not so much.

    As in your desire to travel to the Goldendale area to go engage in camping when you arrive then you are fine, however if you plan on going to Goldendale and stay for a few nights at friends or in a hotel and then go camping, no and the same could be said about traveling through Washington State.

    Remember the circumstances surrounding your engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    The laws seem a little ambiguous. Thanks for your input.
    For this reason alone, you should get the CPL. If you are stopped you are risking arrest, jail, possible loss of your weapon, and a real hard time from the LEO.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    A couple more questions. According to RCW 9.41.060 I can OC if I am camping, hiking, etc. Or traveling to or from said activity.

    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area

    What is classified as being engaged in a lawful outdoor recreational activity? And what is classified as traveling to or from one of these activities? I will be headed from Oregon to Goldendale to camp, can I OC in a car do to this? What if I was headed through WA to go camping in Montana? The laws seem a little ambiguous.

    Thanks for your input.
    I would be careful with this, you might have a hard time convincing a cop that you are out to do a outdoor recreation activity. Its not worth the pain and suffering you might have to deal with. You can still carry the gun in the car just make sure its unloaded but keep the magazine near by just in case **** hits the fan. Get the CPL if you visit WA often as it doesn't hurt to get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    I would be careful with this, you might have a hard time convincing a cop that you are out to do a outdoor recreation activity. Its not worth the pain and suffering you might have to deal with. You can still carry the gun in the car just make sure its unloaded but keep the magazine near by just in case **** hits the fan. Get the CPL if you visit WA often as it doesn't hurt to get it.
    Hard to convince a cop that you are out for an outdoor recreational activity, hmmm maybe the trailer attached to the vehicle, tent in the back of the truck along with food supplies, or mountain bikes, 4 wheelers on a trailer behind you, hiking boots with appropriate attire and we can go on....
    It is not to convince an officer as it is a requirement what they observe to reach a level of RAS for the stop and PC to arrest or cite then a judge or jury and yourself or attorney to sort out.

    Granted if someone is just trying to skirt the RCW's to carry in an illegal manner then there is reason for concern, if you are engaging in the activities as described then the law is on your side.
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    I agree with BigDave, if you are obviously going camping, hiking, hunting, fishing, hoseback riding, and you are coming from another state, you will have gear with you that makes it obvious to the most casual observer.

    If you are going camping and have camping gear with you, I would not worry one bit, especially around Goldendale.

    Camping, hiking, even gold panning up on Swauk Creek. anything like that..not a problem. My one (and only) encounter with a LEO, and I was carrying a big Colt Revolver, was a Chelan Co Sheriff's Deputy. I was coming out of a grocery store where we had purchased some supplies (this was a MWAG call BTW). Deputy looks at me and askes..."hunting" me "yep". That was the whole total conversation. Then the deputy muttered something about having to go find the caller....and that was over 20 years ago.

    At least here in Okanogan Co. If someone calls 911 with a MWAG complaint, they are asked if that person is doing anything unusual with that gun, if not the caller is told that it is totally legal activity..end of call...no officer dispatched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Hard to convince a cop that you are out for an outdoor recreational activity, hmmm maybe the trailer attached to the vehicle, tent in the back of the truck along with food supplies, or mountain bikes, 4 wheelers on a trailer behind you, hiking boots with appropriate attire and we can go on....
    It is not to convince an officer as it is a requirement what they observe to reach a level of RAS for the stop and PC to arrest or cite then a judge or jury and yourself or attorney to sort out.

    Granted if someone is just trying to skirt the RCW's to carry in an illegal manner then there is reason for concern, if you are engaging in the activities as described then the law is on your side.
    Thanks, this is kinda what I was thinking. Should be loaded with camping gear. I know I should get my WACPL but on these next two trips I think I should fall under this exemption. Luckily I have never had an issue with a LEO, always been very cordial to me.

    Thank you to everyone for their input. Always gotten great responses in the Washington part of the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    The reason being is the gun is concealed while it is in a vehicle so thats why they require a CPL
    Not exactly. Anyone can have a firearm in a vehicle as long as it's unloaded and in the case of a handgun, properly secured in container. The "loaded firearm prohibition" is part of WA State's hunting regs and the CPL is an exception.

    Has nothing to do with the "vehicle concealing". You still have to have a CPL when riding a Motor Cycle and not much is concealed there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Not exactly. Anyone can have a firearm in a vehicle as long as it's unloaded and in the case of a handgun, properly secured in container. The "loaded firearm prohibition" is part of WA State's hunting regs and the CPL is an exception.

    Has nothing to do with the "vehicle concealing". You still have to have a CPL when riding a Motor Cycle and not much is concealed there.
    Carrying your loaded firearm be it concealed or not according to the exception provided for in;


    RCW 9.41.060 Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms.
    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    Fish and Wildlife restrictions in this matter is directed toward Rifles and Shotguns or illegal possession of firearms.

    RCW 77.15.460 Loaded firearm in vehicle Unlawful use or possession Penalty.

    *** CHANGE IN 2012 *** (SEE 6135-S.SL) ***
    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if:
    (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and
    (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.


    (2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if the person negligently shoots a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway.

    (3) Unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle or unlawful use of a loaded firearm is a misdemeanor.

    (4) This section does not apply if the person:
    (a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;
    (b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities.

    (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm.
    [1999 c 258 7; 1998 c 190 28.]
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Fish and Wildlife restrictions in this matter is directed toward Rifles and Shotguns or illegal possession of firearms.
    RCW 77.15.460 Loaded firearm in vehicle Unlawful use or possession Penalty.

    *** CHANGE IN 2012 *** (SEE 6135-S.SL) ***
    (1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle if:
    (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in or on a motor vehicle; and
    (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.

    BD:

    That's actually been the law for many years (the underlined part).

    It's legal to have a muzzleloading firearm that is loaded but NOT capped or primed.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    BD:

    That's actually been the law for many years (the underlined part).

    It's legal to have a muzzleloading firearm that is loaded but NOT capped or primed.
    Yes, Dave I am aware of it has been around sometime. In my post I was referencing an earlier statement of a member
    The "loaded firearm prohibition" is part of WA State's hunting regs and the CPL is an exception.
    Department of Fish and Wildlife is dealing with rifle and shotgun and not addressing CPL ie personal defense handguns being loaded in a vehicle and the exception in RCW 9.41.060 for RCW 9.41.050...

    I know, clear as mud...
    Last edited by BigDave; 05-25-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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    I wanted to post an update to this.

    First trip to Goldensale was uneventful and I had tons of fun!

    This last week I took my girlfriend to Glacier NP and on US-395 just outside of Ritzville I was stopped for speeding. I was open carrying a GP100 in a cross draw holster on my left side. The officer approached my vehicle passenger side and ask the usual; where are you going? "camping" do you know how fast you were going "74 when you turned on your lights" etc. I had handed him my Oregon DL and Concealed Handgun Licence (just to get it out of the way. After talking to me he said "where's the gun". I said "I am open carrying" and looked down at my lap. He had me get out of the car and removed the paddle holster "just for during the stop" (I did not protest).

    When he came back and gave me a speeding ticket he wanted to "give me a friendly piece of advice". He went on to tell me my permit was not valid in WA and loaded car carry was considered CC and he wasn't going to cite me this time. I tried explaining RCW 9.41.060 and its exceptions to loaded car carry (I had printed up the rule but left my copies at home), he argued but finally said "that only applys at your camp site"

    I knew I wouldn't get my point accross so let it drop. He put my gun on the passengers dash and handed me a bag with five bullets in it. I said there were only five rounds here where is the sixth? He took my gun back and drew it from the holster to check the cylinder. POINTING IT AT MY GIRLFRIEND THE WHOLE TIME!!!! I told him not to point it at her and "hey you're pointing that at us". Well number six was still loaded and he stated dumbly "oh I guess it didn't drop out"

    I am in the process of writing a letter to the officer to let him know of my reaction and copying the laws so he can be better informed.

    What are your thoughts on the incounter?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    I wanted to post an update to this.

    First trip to Goldensale was uneventful and I had tons of fun!

    This last week I took my girlfriend to Glacier NP and on US-395 just outside of Ritzville I was stopped for speeding. I was open carrying a GP100 in a cross draw holster on my left side. The officer approached my vehicle passenger side and ask the usual; where are you going? "camping" do you know how fast you were going "74 when you turned on your lights" etc. I had handed him my Oregon DL and Concealed Handgun Licence (just to get it out of the way. After talking to me he said "where's the gun". I said "I am open carrying" and looked down at my lap. He had me get out of the car and removed the paddle holster "just for during the stop" (I did not protest).

    When he came back and gave me a speeding ticket he wanted to "give me a friendly piece of advice". He went on to tell me my permit was not valid in WA and loaded car carry was considered CC and he wasn't going to cite me this time. I tried explaining RCW 9.41.060 and its exceptions to loaded car carry (I had printed up the rule but left my copies at home), he argued but finally said "that only applys at your camp site"

    I knew I wouldn't get my point accross so let it drop. He put my gun on the passengers dash and handed me a bag with five bullets in it. I said there were only five rounds here where is the sixth? He took my gun back and drew it from the holster to check the cylinder. POINTING IT AT MY GIRLFRIEND THE WHOLE TIME!!!! I told him not to point it at her and "hey you're pointing that at us". Well number six was still loaded and he stated dumbly "oh I guess it didn't drop out"

    I am in the process of writing a letter to the officer to let him know of my reaction and copying the laws so he can be better informed.

    What are your thoughts on the incounter?
    You asked....so here is my opinion.

    Why did you answer how fast you were going? You admitted you were breaking the law and now you will pay the ticket.

    Why did you hand him an invalid CHL? Why introduce a firearm into the situation at all? As you experienced, the officer handled the firearm and apparently did so unsafely. Your answering the question of where you are going with 'camping' was perfectly sufficient and no further commentary needed to be made.
    A proper response to the how fast you are going question is 'No, what seems to be the problem officer?' The be silent, let them write you a ticket if that is their choice. Your nature of carry and the fact that WA is a non notify state, you should of left the firearm out of the equation. You were and are covered by 9.41.060. The officer's opinion was incorrect and would not of held up in court and is why he gave you serial misinformation and did not give you a ticket.
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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    I wanted to post an update to this.

    First trip to Goldensale was uneventful and I had tons of fun!

    This last week I took my girlfriend to Glacier NP and on US-395 just outside of Ritzville I was stopped for speeding. I was open carrying a GP100 in a cross draw holster on my left side. The officer approached my vehicle passenger side and ask the usual; where are you going? "camping" do you know how fast you were going "74 when you turned on your lights" etc. I had handed him my Oregon DL and Concealed Handgun Licence (just to get it out of the way. After talking to me he said "where's the gun". I said "I am open carrying" and looked down at my lap. He had me get out of the car and removed the paddle holster "just for during the stop" (I did not protest).

    When he came back and gave me a speeding ticket he wanted to "give me a friendly piece of advice". He went on to tell me my permit was not valid in WA and loaded car carry was considered CC and he wasn't going to cite me this time. I tried explaining RCW 9.41.060 and its exceptions to loaded car carry (I had printed up the rule but left my copies at home), he argued but finally said "that only applys at your camp site"

    I knew I wouldn't get my point accross so let it drop. He put my gun on the passengers dash and handed me a bag with five bullets in it. I said there were only five rounds here where is the sixth? He took my gun back and drew it from the holster to check the cylinder. POINTING IT AT MY GIRLFRIEND THE WHOLE TIME!!!! I told him not to point it at her and "hey you're pointing that at us". Well number six was still loaded and he stated dumbly "oh I guess it didn't drop out"

    I am in the process of writing a letter to the officer to let him know of my reaction and copying the laws so he can be better informed.

    What are your thoughts on the incounter?
    a) You admitted to breaking the speed limit. Doh
    b) You provided a CPL when one did not ask for it, putting yourself in a bad situation since your OR CPL is not recognized. Doh
    c) You waved 4th amendment right by letting him take your firearm. You put yourself into this situation by offering information you weren't required to, which ultimately resulted in a firearm being pointed at you and your girlfriend.
    d) .060 does not have any case law that I am aware of to define traveling to/from an outdoor activity. Did you have camping supplies that would have collaborated your story to the officer/court had you been cited?

    edit: gogo beat me to it...
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 06-11-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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    Thank you gogodawgs and slapmonkay. These are the responses I figured I would get. I know I blew it on a few levels.

    I know I do not need to show my CHL but have always done so without an issue (yes I know in OR) I have also always been upfront about my speed when pulled over (three times) and never have incurred a ticket (OR and WA).

    I was a little unsure about my 4th Ammendment rights because I was being pulled over for speeding. (rethinking now it is clear as day).

    Yes I had a ton of camping gear in an open station wagon so that wouldn't have been an issue.

    I guess in the last 18 years of carrying (mostly concealed) I have always had good luck with LEOs. This incident has gotten me to think differently.

    Again thank you for your advice, I will be taking it to heart and changing a few things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    You asked....so here is my opinion.

    Why did you answer how fast you were going? You admitted you were breaking the law and now you will pay the ticket.

    Why did you hand him an invalid CHL? Why introduce a firearm into the situation at all? As you experienced, the officer handled the firearm and apparently did so unsafely. Your answering the question of where you are going with 'camping' was perfectly sufficient and no further commentary needed to be made.
    A proper response to the how fast you are going question is 'No, what seems to be the problem officer?' The be silent, let them write you a ticket if that is their choice. Your nature of carry and the fact that WA is a non notify state, you should of left the firearm out of the equation. You were and are covered by 9.41.060. The officer's opinion was incorrect and would not of held up in court and is why he gave you serial misinformation and did not give you a ticket.
    +1
    Exactly right in my opinion!

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethrotull View Post
    <snip> I have always had good luck with LEOs.<snip>
    Good luck always runs out..... your inalienable rights never do.
    Live Free or Die!

  25. #25
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Roy, WA
    Posts
    1,329
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I can tell you what has worked very well for me for almost two years now....

    SLOW DOWN!

    And I agree with the others - you waived every single Constitutional right applicable.
    I've been trying to tell my mom she needs to do that.

    Question: my mom got a speeding ticket on 8th ave. S that is on JBLM property but is not in a secure area. The officer was an MP and he noticed her CPL in her wallet when she was getting her ID out. He asked if she had a gun with her and she did not. She doesn't normally carry yet. I was curious how the whole federal property thing works if you're in an unsecured area and just driving on a main highway. I drive this road every day.

    Anybody?

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