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Thread: Is this open carry?? Pic inside.

  1. #1
    Regular Member davestradamus's Avatar
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    Is this open carry?? Pic inside.

    I just got a new gun, a Kel-Tec P11. The gun is very light and compact, which is great for CC but not the best for OC. Somehow my Crossbreed Supertuck made for the Walther I no longer own fits my 1911 and the P11 just fine! I would like to OC this gun IWB but its so tiny! My 1911 sticks out like a sore thumb (its a full size goverment model in polished nickel) Anyway....

    Would you carry like this and consider it OC?





    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Yes it is but be careful. Riding that low your shirt may cover it if it gets pulled some. Then you could have problems.
    Better to use an IWB that rides a tad higher.

  3. #3
    Regular Member davestradamus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yes it is but be careful. Riding that low your shirt may cover it if it gets pulled some. Then you could have problems.
    Better to use an IWB that rides a tad higher.
    Good point. The CBST is very adjustable and could easily be made to ride higher. My buddy is the same build as me and has his on the highest setting with a similar gun. The 1911 has to be lower to be comfortable for me. I have not adjusted the holster for the Kel-Tec.

    Thanks sir!

  4. #4
    Regular Member ryan7068's Avatar
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    Not that I'm promoting CC, but if you have your CHP it would be good if it mangages to get covered and some Barney Fife decides to get wise with you. While it IWB may be quite comfortable to you, I have OC my small handguns OWB many times. It is more comfortable if sitting a lot or if in car.

    I'd say the biggest thing is if a cop approaches you saying its concealled, ask him how it is that he was able to identify it as a handgun.
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

  5. #5
    Regular Member davestradamus's Avatar
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    True. I know that we dont discuss CC here so I will leave that for other forums. Maybe I will set up the holster to ride higher. I have not been happy with OWB holsters. I always seem to bang my gun on things... (desk, door frame, etc) plus, I tend to wear form fitting clothes (especially when not at work) and the OWB doesnt quite mesh. IWB tends to make itself more pronounced when wearing something like a tight tee-shirt or something similar.

    Thanks for the advice!

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan7068 View Post
    Not that I'm promoting CC, but if you have your CHP it would be good if it mangages to get covered and some Barney Fife decides to get wise with you.
    And he should worry about old Barny....why?
    This is OCDO...not OC with a CHP so I can play dressup!

  7. #7
    Regular Member ryan7068's Avatar
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    I was thinkin maybe he was worried about being in violation of the law. If thats not the case, I don't see the difference when it comes to having a firearm. Carrying, is carrying.......a few subtle differences aside.
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan7068 View Post
    I was thinkin maybe he was worried about being in violation of the law. If thats not the case, I don't see the difference when it comes to having a firearm. Carrying, is carrying.......a few subtle differences aside.
    He was and that's been answered and you're right, carrying is carrying but....some of us believe using a CHP as a passport to conflict free carry is not only misleading, but worse, it is an invitation to people who aren't concerned with the right to carry, rather with the game of carrying, to join up. They influence the GA to pass Perks For Permits Laws and will ultimately result in a permit state.

    I consider those people Dress Up People. Like civil war or mountain man buffs that create a persona, they can relive the adventure without any of the discomfort.

    This is a prime cause of my occasional unpleasant, disposition.
    Last edited by peter nap; 05-24-2012 at 10:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Getting back on track --

    You are displaying the (in)famous "Virginia tuck". (Which you should go look up.)

    While not your mother (thank goodness for all of us), I have an almost irresistable urge to tell you to tuck your shirt in properly. Maybe it's just the former NCO peeking out from behind the bushes?

    stay safe.
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  10. #10
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    18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

    ------------------------------------

    1. Is it "hidden from common observation"?
    2. Is it "observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature"?

    If you can truthfully answer "no" to each of those questions then at least in VA it is considered open carry.

    Will any given judge consider half the grip exposed to be commonly observable and not disguising its true nature?

    Regarding "the VA tuck"... Let me preface this by saying that I rarely use an IWB holster, I used the term when I was wearing a coat, jacket, shirt, or other outer garment draped over the gun to conceal the gun. Just prior to walking into an establishment that served adult beverages, I would take the tail of said coat, jacket, shirt, or other and pull it up and "tuck" it behind the handle of the gun and holster to expose the gun to common observation.

    I would not have associated the term VA tuck with the normal wearing of an IWB holster.

  11. #11
    Regular Member davestradamus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jegoodin View Post
    1. Is it "hidden from common observation"?
    2. Is it "observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature"?

    If you can truthfully answer "no" to each of those questions then at least in VA it is considered open carry.

    Will any given judge consider half the grip exposed to be commonly observable and not disguising its true nature?

    Hrmmm... While not meaning to, I may have made this holster conceal the gun too much. I will ride it higher to make sure it is recognizable as a gun.. cause isnt that the point of OC?

    Thanks chaps!! Cheerio!

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Yea, it's open carry. Next question, how can a holster fit both a P-11 and a 1911 properly?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  13. #13
    Regular Member davestradamus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Yea, it's open carry. Next question, how can a holster fit both a P-11 and a 1911 properly?
    You would be surprised. The holster in question was made for a Walther PK380. It fits the P99 pretty well too. The 1911 fits well after I notched out a cut for the mag release as it would eject the mag by accident. The P11 fits like it was meant for it. It even clicks when inserted. I can hold the holster upside-down with a fully loaded P11 and it doesnt fall out. The 1911 weighs so much, I doubt any holster without retention would hold it upside-down.

    Cheers mates!

  14. #14
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Kel-Tec also makes an optional "belt clip" attachment for the p-11. Personally I like it on mine.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    Kel-Tec also makes an optional "belt clip" attachment for the p-11. Personally I like it on mine.
    Yea, I've got one of those on my PF-9. Works pretty good!
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davestradamus View Post
    You would be surprised. The holster in question was made for a Walther PK380. It fits the P99 pretty well too. The 1911 fits well after I notched out a cut for the mag release as it would eject the mag by accident. The P11 fits like it was meant for it. It even clicks when inserted. I can hold the holster upside-down with a fully loaded P11 and it doesnt fall out. The 1911 weighs so much, I doubt any holster without retention would hold it upside-down.

    Cheers mates!
    Ah, you modified it a bit. Makes more sense now
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  17. #17
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    i cant really tell it is a gun from the front at all.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    i cant really tell it is a gun from the front at all.
    You don't have to Tanner. For instance, you can't see the gun from his weak side, you couldn't even if it were a belt holster with one of my guns. It just has to be visible and recognizable during common observation, not all the time.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Im under the impression that if you can see it it needs to be visible enough to be recognized as a gun. In the picture of his front I can see something there but cant makeout what it is. I do realize the weakside is an acception. AGAIN I am still learning so dont kill me if im wrong about this.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    Im under the impression that if you can see it it needs to be visible enough to be recognized as a gun. In the picture of his front I can see something there but cant makeout what it is. I do realize the weakside is an acception. AGAIN I am still learning so dont kill me if im wrong about this.
    I'm not gonna kill you but there's an old Southern expression. "I don't chew my backy but once" So you can decide for yourself.

  21. #21
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    I would not carry like that OR carry that!

    Someone will think you are carrying a squirt gun!

  22. #22
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    ouch!

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    Im under the impression that if you can see it it needs to be visible enough to be recognized as a gun. In the picture of his front I can see something there but cant makeout what it is. I do realize the weakside is an acception. AGAIN I am still learning so dont kill me if im wrong about this.
    Observable to common observation does not imply 360 degree clear field of vision.

    It is not hidden/concealed when sitting in a vehicle or a restaurant booth. Neither is it concealed when I'm on the other side of a wall. The real question is whether it is covered/blocked from view by your style of dress. If it is recognizable as a gun -hard to claim honestly that it is concealed.
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