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Thread: Concealed weapon concerned parade goer

  1. #1
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    Concealed weapon concerned parade goer

    A letter in the local "Courier Hub" (weekly paper of Stoughton, WI): "There was a man carrying at gun at the corner of Madison and Main Street during Sunday's parade, which was crowded with families and small children. Concealed Weapons are not allowed in post offices, Hospitals, and in many public places. The city council needs to add "All public gatherings" including parades to the list of prohibitions. This was, I'm sure, very traumatizing for both children and and adults. Why did this individual feel it was necessary to carry a weapon to a public celebaratory event attended by many families and young children?"

    Seeing as how I was probably the person, and I was wearing my blaze orange WCI shirt and OPEN carrying, how should I write in response to this?

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    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    i would include something about the state fair mob incident, and summer fest problems just to name a couple

    is there a link to the story
    Last edited by oliverclotheshoff; 05-24-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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    The sight of a firearm sure scares some people. I wonder if they think it will magically jump up and go off? If they are worried that the carrier will use it just 'cause, do they worry someone with issues might plow a 4,000lb guided projectile (an automobile) though the same crowd?

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Make sure your polite, start with something like "Dear Scum-sucking PIG". That way you don't sound like some constitutional rights believer or sumptin.

    Seriously though, if you feel it necessary to respond to the fearful, mention the right to keep and bear arms, that crime happens anywhere, anytime and to anyone. That criminals don't carry openly, that criminals don't care if there are women and children in their way. That an armed citizen is a visual deterrent to those whom would choose to do harm to others. You will never change the opinion of the small minded, but may get someone who is on the fence to see it another way.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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  6. #6
    McX
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    something tells me it would be a good idea not to shoot at any of the people, whirly-gigs, and thing ma bobs on the passing floats.

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    My wife's cousin has a similar outlook. She says the 2A made sense in a historical context but has out-lived it's relevance. She's offended by the mere presence of a gun. We told her if she could give us a 100% guarantee that nobody would ever attack us or the kids then we would gladly leave our guns in the safe. She had no response.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Some people using their 1st amendment frighten me can we stop them from opening their mouths and spewing dribble..If they take my 2nd away then it is only fare to suspend the rest of our rights. Small children only echo the cowards fears of their parents.

    If life scares them so much they shouldn't leave the house.

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckdriver1975 View Post
    We told her if she could give us a 100% guarantee that nobody would ever attack us or the kids then we would gladly leave our guns in the safe. She had no response.
    ^^^this^^^
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckdriver1975 View Post
    My wife's cousin has a similar outlook. She says the 2A made sense in a historical context but has out-lived it's relevance. She's offended by the mere presence of a gun. We told her if she could give us a 100% guarantee that nobody would ever attack us or the kids then we would gladly leave our guns in the safe. She had no response.
    It isn't just about the day to day criminal assualts but to protect us if the goverment gets out of control....oh wait to late.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcav8r View Post
    how should I write in response to this?
    "We're here, we've gear. Get used to it."

    Unless it's a city-owned hospital, the city has no say in the matter. Nor could they make the parade into a "special event" since it doesn't charge an admission or have designated entrances. So that person's desire to have the city council get involved will go nowhere.

    Secondly, did you see evidence of terrified adults and children? Sounds like just one unhappy anti trying to stir things up to me.
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    "We're here, we've gear. Get used to it."

    Unless it's a city-owned hospital, the city has no say in the matter. Nor could they make the parade into a "special event" since it doesn't charge an admission or have designated entrances. So that person's desire to have the city council get involved will go nowhere.

    Secondly, did you see evidence of terrified adults and children? Sounds like just one unhappy anti trying to stir things up to me.
    They were so happy he was OCing they had a parade....

  13. #13
    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    Point out that crimes do occur in such places (mob actions previously mentioned) and in places with children and families (churches, schools, etc....).

    Ask what other Constitutionally protected rights they think should be taken away while out in public. Finally, I would address the newspaper directly at how they chose to run the letter as they do decide what to print.

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    I did a little searching, and it appears this guy is also a anti-hunter.

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    First draft

    Last week, there was a short letter to the editor from one Norman C. Granvold complaining about someone legally carrying a firearm while watching the parade.
    I was that person.
    I will answer Mr. Granvold's concerns expressed in his letter: Post offices don't allow firearms by federal law. Hospitals (not all of them) ban firearms because their board of directors made the decision, not the law. Local governments are allowed under state law to ban firearms from city owned buildings, but not lands or parades. Unfortunately, the city of Stoughton did pass such a ordinance in kneejerk reaction to the then new concealed carry law, Act 35.
    And just to educate Mr. Granvold, I was open carrying, not concealed carrying. If I was carrying concealed, how would you know?
    Just because you were traumatized, sir, does not mean anyone else was. I never saw sign of any such thing. Nobody moved away from me. Nobody ran away screaming. No hysteria, no shouts of fear. Nothing. In fact, children are more interested than scared, and most adults don't even notice. I'd be willing to bet more children were scared of the loud sirens and horns of the emergency vehicles than they were of the firearms that could also be seen carried by the police all weekend and color guard during the parade. What do you do during gun deer season, Mr. Granvold?
    Now, just because something is called a family event, does not mean it is a criminal free zone. Just look at the riots at the state fair last year. Can you guarantee a 100% crime free event? No, and that is why I carry, to protect my family who was with me, and myself, not to play cop or be a hero.
    I would suggest that Mr. Granvold read the bill of rights again. Y'know, that document that also gives him the right of free speech? To promote his cause? Worship as he pleases? The right to keep and bear arms is in there. Surprisingly, it's in the Wisconsin Constitution too...article 1, section 25. Even spelled out in state law under Act 35.
    Your way practicing of your constitutional rights does not mean I have to give up mine, because you disagree with the way I chose to practice mine.

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    is there a link to the story
    http://stoughtonnews.com/main.asp?Se...ctionID=46&S=1

  17. #17
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    "Thank Goodness Wisconsin Statutes protect us legally armed citizens from eager tyrants such as Herr Granvold and his claque. (Chapter 66 General Municipality Law, Subchapter IV Regulation, 66.0409 Local regulation of firearms)

    Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and Guns and the Truth. God Bless the Bitter Clingers."

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    Regular Member Polar Baer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcav8r View Post
    Last week, there was a short letter to the editor from one Norman C. Granvold complaining about someone legally carrying a firearm while watching the parade.
    I was that person.
    I will answer Mr. Granvold's concerns expressed in his letter: Post offices don't allow firearms by federal law. Hospitals (not all of them) ban firearms because their board of directors made the decision, not the law. Local governments are allowed under state law to ban firearms from city owned buildings, but not lands or parades. Unfortunately, the city of Stoughton did pass such a ordinance in kneejerk reaction to the then new concealed carry law, Act 35.
    And just to educate Mr. Granvold, I was open carrying, not concealed carrying. If I was carrying concealed, how would you know?
    Just because you were traumatized, sir, does not mean anyone else was. I never saw sign of any such thing. Nobody moved away from me. Nobody ran away screaming. No hysteria, no shouts of fear. Nothing. In fact, children are more interested than scared, and most adults don't even notice. I'd be willing to bet more children were scared of the loud sirens and horns of the emergency vehicles than they were of the firearms that could also be seen carried by the police all weekend and color guard during the parade. What do you do during gun deer season, Mr. Granvold?
    Now, just because something is called a family event, does not mean it is a criminal free zone. Just look at the riots at the state fair last year. Can you guarantee a 100% crime free event? No, and that is why I carry, to protect my family who was with me, and myself, not to play cop or be a hero.
    I would suggest that Mr. Granvold read the bill of rights again. Y'know, that document that also gives him the right of free speech? To promote his cause? Worship as he pleases? The right to keep and bear arms is in there. Surprisingly, it's in the Wisconsin Constitution too...article 1, section 25. Even spelled out in state law under Act 35.
    Your way practicing of your constitutional rights does not mean I have to give up mine, because you disagree with the way I chose to practice mine.
    Very well written

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  19. #19
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Granvold is still not-so smarting that this ordinance didn't pass

    http://www.stoughtonnews.com/main.as...=2&TM=36360.59

    "The Common Council last week heard a first reading of an ordinance that would prohibit people from carrying a concealed firearm or other weapon in public..."

  20. #20
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    http://www.stoughtonnews.com/main.as...ArticleID=4399

    "Is this the same parade at which Norman C. Granvold complained about the presence of a legally armed citizen? It may be that Stoughton has larger tolerance and vision issues than advocacy of alternative lifestyles. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights do say that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be infringed. I don't recall the Founding Fathers writing on PFAG."

  21. #21
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcav8r View Post
    .....I would suggest that Mr. Granvold read the bill of rights again. Y'know, that document that also gives him the right of free speech? .....
    I have a comment. The Constitution gives us neither the right to bear arms nor the right of free speech. It affirms these rights which already exist and prohibits them from being infringed upon.

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    Now I heard either in this blog or elsewhere that there is a decision being made at the state level that OC/CC should be banned from 'special events.' That seems a very broad subjective term. There is a danger that anti gunners will use it to make all public events 'special.' That would mean our local county fairs too won't it?

  23. #23
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Now I heard either in this blog or elsewhere that there is a decision being made at the state level that OC/CC should be banned from 'special events.' That seems a very broad subjective term. There is a danger that anti gunners will use it to make all public events 'special.' That would mean our local county fairs too won't it?
    Though some treat it so, OCDO is not a blog. A Government Accountability Board staff attorney is trying to justify prohibiting gun carry at polls for an election being a "special event". Special event is objectively defined in the statute, including being open to the public. Elections are not open to the public that includes felons, illegals, minors and foreigners.

    943.13(1e)(h) “Special event” means an event that is open to the public, is for a duration of not more than 3 weeks, and either has designated entrances to and from the event that are locked when the event is closed or requires an admission.

    943.13(1m)(c)3. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains at a special event if the organizers of the special event have notified the actor not to enter or remain at the special event while carrying a firearm
    or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of the special event grounds or building used as a parking facility.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 05-24-2012 at 06:44 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    I have a comment. The Constitution gives us neither the right to bear arms nor the right of free speech. It affirms these rights which already exist and prohibits them from being infringed upon.
    Good point. Will reword the letter.
    Last edited by rcav8r; 05-24-2012 at 07:41 PM.

  25. #25
    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    I have a comment. The Constitution gives us neither the right to bear arms nor the right of free speech. It affirms these rights which already exist and prohibits them from being infringed upon.
    Thank you, Interceptor Knight, for putting these rights in their proper context. It is a point that bears repeating to the sheeple.
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