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Thread: What Constitutes Harassment?

  1. #1
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    What Constitutes Harassment?

    What constitutes harassment legally?

    The reason I ask, is that since the reckless thing got pinned on me, not only did I get an on foot OC stop, and the stop last Friday, and pulled over and searched before my DL suspension, my neighbors are now telling me that they have been watching my house, and keeping tabs on my car.

    I knew that as soon as I got my license back, they would be looking for my little red car, and every time they saw it, they would pull it over, and do another illegal search, and a drivers responsibility fee ticket. Knowing this, I got rid of that car, trading it for something different. My neighbors told me that OCSD was sneaking around at night, focused on my new car, basically getting to know what it looks like, so that they can go tell all their little cop friends what I'm driving, and that they be on the lookout for it.

    Now, Im thinking about getting rid of it, never having the chance to drive that one, and keeping my next car at a freinds house so they can't find it. I'll just walk to that location, and pick the car up from there.

  2. #2
    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    The LEO's are infringing on your private property rights getting to know your new vehicle? All this because you were walking down the street OC'ing?

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    I dont know if it crosses the line of private property, but its definitely because they are sick of getting OC calls.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Wait...are you driving on a suspended license?
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
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    No way, not even close. my DL suspension is over next week. Just not even worth it.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Good. Carry on.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
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  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    You are a person of interest to them for one reason or another. Once again I am telling you: you should lay low!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    You are a person of interest to them for one reason or another. Once again I am telling you: you should lay low!
    I will decode this for you. They (PD) want to stomp your dick into the dirt given the chance. Maybe they just do not like you. We are finding some departments pick & choose the laws they will follow. If you truly feel you are being stalked by them, you will have to prove your claims via video & witnesses in the area. You will need to keep detailed logs of everything, time of contact, duration, car #, description of officer(s) etc.. You will need your witnesses to sign statements stating what they observed. You will then have to FOIA dispatch logs. Why? Because every vehicle must be signed out by the driver at the beginning of their shift, if they drive by your house 6 times on their shift, stop, take pictures of your car, walk around your yard and peek in the windows and so on without there being a legitimate reason for them to be there, now you have data to use against them. Without these items or more you are going to be shrugged off as just another nut.

    Oakland Co, Sheriff's have always been one of the better agencies out there when it comes to OC, to the best of my knowledge. I think if you are able to compile the items above, someone is going to be looking for a new job pretty quick. Now on the other hand, you have not been building model cars, planes, ships in a bottle etc.. in a confined, poorly ventilated area have you?
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I dont know if it crosses the line of private property, but its definitely because they are sick of getting OC calls.
    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
    "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I have one problem with all this.......

    They have your LEIN information every time they pull you over and know what cars, or any registered vehicles you own. When they do a 28 and 29 on LEIN they can tell everything about your Michigan S.O.S. files and so why would they sneak around?

    to be honest anyone with a few bucks can go to the SOS office and search your name and address for all your registered vehicles information. I haven't seen the new prices but for decades if was $6.55 to do this and even after they so called tightened the procedures it is still easy to do.

    I think something else is at play here and yes I would have a security camera system with recording capability and be making notes on who comes and goes.


    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    What constitutes harassment legally?

    The reason I ask, is that since the reckless thing got pinned on me, not only did I get an on foot OC stop, and the stop last Friday, and pulled over and searched before my DL suspension, my neighbors are now telling me that they have been watching my house, and keeping tabs on my car.

    I knew that as soon as I got my license back, they would be looking for my little red car, and every time they saw it, they would pull it over, and do another illegal search, and a drivers responsibility fee ticket. Knowing this, I got rid of that car, trading it for something different. My neighbors told me that OCSD was sneaking around at night, focused on my new car, basically getting to know what it looks like, so that they can go tell all their little cop friends what I'm driving, and that they be on the lookout for it.

    Now, Im thinking about getting rid of it, never having the chance to drive that one, and keeping my next car at a freinds house so they can't find it. I'll just walk to that location, and pick the car up from there.
    Last edited by Bailenforcer; 05-26-2012 at 02:50 PM.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  11. #11
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    I'll have to get a couple blank VHS tapes. I already have video running 24/7. Have had for years.

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    You are a person of interest to them for one reason or another. Once again I am telling you: you should lay low!
    lol I can think of about a half-dozen reasons.

    Seriously, the over-riding reason is that your conviction for the Reckless has given them the impression that you will do things that give them even more to eventually charge you with. This is just one more example that the police ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. I would follow Q's suggestion to lay low; not out of any sense that they are correct, rather that they will get bored after a while and move on. I know, this sounds like advice that one used to give a person who was being bullied on the playground. With limited funds and and a penchant for speaking with leos, I think that there is probably not much you can do. Basically, they are trying to rattle you.

    edited to add: I see in another thread you are on probation. Under the terms of probation, your rights in many areas are limited. Basically, if an officer has "reasonable cause" to believe that you have violated ANY term of your probation, they can arrest you for "Violation of Term of Probation" (MCL 764.15[g])
    Last edited by DrTodd; 05-26-2012 at 05:54 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Last edited by DrTodd; 05-26-2012 at 06:14 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  14. #14
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    Well, they have got me rattled.

    Good job boys, is that what you dreamed of when you were young, wanting to be a cop someday?

    I intend to lay low for a while, not my M.O. but I guess it will have to do. It's good advice.

    Truthfully, if I had a CPL, I'd just CC for the rest of the year to let things cool. I hate to even say that, I don't like CC in general, as a rule I stand firmly against it with very few exceptions.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I am in 100% agreement on what The-Q and Dr Todd said, and take it from my experience being on the other side of things here. Being invisible is your best asset right now till they get tired of looking for you that needle in a hay stack. The old saying out of sight is out of mind is very applicable here. Lay low and stay home or away from home as much as possible. Not answering the door is not a crime either. If you have mere days left they are looking for you to screw up as so many do in the last days or a suspension, probation or parole. Ask any Probation officer the best time to hit someone on a substance abuse test is the last day of probation and the same mindset applies with a suspension. People get antsy and restless and screw up.

    Be invisible for a few months, change your habits if possible.



    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    lol I can think of about a half-dozen reasons.

    Seriously, the over-riding reason is that your conviction for the Reckless has given them the impression that you will do things that give them even more to eventually charge you with. This is just one more example that the police ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. I would follow Q's suggestion to lay low; not out of any sense that they are correct, rather that they will get bored after a while and move on. I know, this sounds like advice that one used to give a person who was being bullied on the playground. With limited funds and and a penchant for speaking with leos, I think that there is probably not much you can do. Basically, they are trying to rattle you.

    edited to add: I see in another thread you are on probation. Under the terms of probation, your rights in many areas are limited. Basically, if an officer has "reasonable cause" to believe that you have violated ANY term of your probation, they can arrest you for "Violation of Term of Probation" (MCL 764.15[g])
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  16. #16
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    1,000 posts, congrats.

    Under the radar, will do.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 05-26-2012 at 09:46 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    1,000 posts, congrats.

    Under the radar, will do.
    It's the quality that matters, not the quantity Mr. Zillion posts
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Once upon a time, you called me Post-o-matic, I still lol about that.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Once upon a time, you called me Post-o-matic, I still lol about that.
    Me too! I had forgotten about that one. It's all meant in good fun. Granted, it is hard being a funny Ba$tard in type.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Me too! I had forgotten about that one. It's all meant in good fun. Granted, it is hard being a funny Ba$tard in type.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xPaeONSn_8

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    I have no idea where this thread is going, but it's like a bunch of best friends are having a conversation.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by OneForAll View Post
    I have no idea where this thread is going, but it's like a bunch of best friends are having a conversation.

    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 05-26-2012 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Suffering PTSD - Pat Troll Stress Disorder :)
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  23. #23
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    He's not pat. I've known him for years.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 05-26-2012 at 11:00 PM.

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    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; Today at 09:37 PM. Reason: Suffering PTSD - Pat Troll Stress Disorder

    Thats funny right there.

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Thanks Glock9mmOldStyle

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