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My yearly detainment in Portland.

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Can anyone suggest an inexpensive phone (without buying cell service) which could be used in the same manner as the OP used his?
 

SovereignAxe

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
791
Location
Elizabethton, TN
FYI this got reposted to /r/guns on reddit again. In case you're wondering why your view count shot up again ;) (it wasn't me)

It'll probably get reposted every month or so for a while. Enjoy viral status.
 

berettabone

Banned
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
57
Location
West Allis
I disagree. The Portland Police just got a letter from a citizen complaining about officer treatment of a citizen.

If the cook at Denny's burnt my pancakes, and I wrote a letter to the manager complaining about it, would you say, "Yeah! Denny's just got bitch slapped!!!"? No. The chief probably read the first three sentences, and tossed it in the trash. You know. Like the 300 other "bitch slaps" they receive every week?

Why.....If I was a police chief, and the only thing I had to worry about when one of my officers stomped all over someone's rights was an angry letter (no matter how well designed and written), I'd be thrilled.

After all, when YOU break the law, YOU go to jail. When my officers break the law, I just receive well written letters.

Yeah. My "bitch slaps" put folks behind bars and alter their permanent records.

Your "bitch slaps" go directly to the bottom of my office waste basket.

Maybe, If someone filed a FOIA request, hired an attorney, and filed a lawsuit that they have evidence for, I might be worried. After all, something like that would set precedent for possible future behavior of my officers. Shoot. If the department had to actually face REAL CONSEQUENCES (what you face when YOU break the law) for the laws they broke, I might tell my officers to alter their behavior towards open carriers. But, the author of this letter just told me that he's not the litigious kind. (Yeah. Like my officers aren't the "arresting kind". Do you think If YOU broke the law, my officer would write you a well written letter instead of arresting you?) I'm so happy that the reverse isn't true! My officers can dance jigs all over the law, and guess what? I get a letter!

Now for the cool part: I'll just take a few minutes to jot down a little rubber stamp apology letter attesting to how sorry I am that this happened, and folks will consider me sufficiently "bitch slapped", and we can all move on from this horrific incident as if nothing happened. (Because, If there's no further legal proceedings, that's pretty much the truth. So very different if the roles were reversed, huh?)

And this is what happens time and time again....sometimes, it's better to swallow a bit of "rights" pride, and just go along with the program, like it or not..unless you are willing to sue, it will not stop.
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
Did you see him coming and start it up or is it always recording?

He stopped about 50 feet in front of me and got out of his car. At that time I took my phone out of my pocket. He waited patiently for me to start the recording before initiating the detainment.
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine

Medic1210

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
298
Location
Rockingham, NC
I disagree. The Portland Police just got a letter from a citizen complaining about officer treatment of a citizen.

If the cook at Denny's burnt my pancakes, and I wrote a letter to the manager complaining about it, would you say, "Yeah! Denny's just got bitch slapped!!!"? No. The chief probably read the first three sentences, and tossed it in the trash. You know. Like the 300 other "bitch slaps" they receive every week?

Why.....If I was a police chief, and the only thing I had to worry about when one of my officers stomped all over someone's rights was an angry letter (no matter how well designed and written), I'd be thrilled.

After all, when YOU break the law, YOU go to jail. When my officers break the law, I just receive well written letters.

Yeah. My "bitch slaps" put folks behind bars and alter their permanent records.

Your "bitch slaps" go directly to the bottom of my office waste basket.

Maybe, If someone filed a FOIA request, hired an attorney, and filed a lawsuit that they have evidence for, I might be worried. After all, something like that would set precedent for possible future behavior of my officers. Shoot. If the department had to actually face REAL CONSEQUENCES (what you face when YOU break the law) for the laws they broke, I might tell my officers to alter their behavior towards open carriers. But, the author of this letter just told me that he's not the litigious kind. (Yeah. Like my officers aren't the "arresting kind". Do you think If YOU broke the law, my officer would write you a well written letter instead of arresting you?) I'm so happy that the reverse isn't true! My officers can dance jigs all over the law, and guess what? I get a letter!

Now for the cool part: I'll just take a few minutes to jot down a little rubber stamp apology letter attesting to how sorry I am that this happened, and folks will consider me sufficiently "bitch slapped", and we can all move on from this horrific incident as if nothing happened. (Because, If there's no further legal proceedings, that's pretty much the truth. So very different if the roles were reversed, huh?)

Great video and well written letter, but I gotta 100% agree with the comment above. Things won't change until it affects their bottom line...
 

Flashlight

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
68
Location
Indiana
Even if Boyscout does not get litigious what are we going to do to make sure it doesn't happen again? They have been educated by many different means but just don't seem to get it. Any ideas? I will be open carrying there Monday and honestly am hoping for a police encounter.
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
I guess it's that time of year again. It seems every spring I get stopped by the Portland PD.

I got video this time

I also wrote an email to the police chief:

Chief Sauschuck,

On 26MAY2012 at about 17:15 I was stopped by Officer J McDonald. I recorded a video of the stop for my protection. You can view the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEbe7e9GE

Officer McDonald claimed to have received calls that I was walking around with a holstered firearm. This is a legal activity in Maine. He stopped me, put on gloves, and removed my weapon from me. I told him I do not consent to any searches or seizures. He unloaded my firearm and before ejecting the round from the chamber, he pointed my loaded firearm at my legs. This is unacceptable behavior.

There are many things that need to be taken into account here. Terry v Ohio requires three criteria to be met in order to disarm an individual. The officer must have a suspicion that the individual is armed. The officer must have a suspicion that the individual is dangerous. Thirdly, the officer must have a reasonable suspicion that the individual has committed or is about to commit a crime. Officer McDonald admitted in this video that the only reason he stopped me was for the legal carrying of my firearm and that he did not have any reason to suspect me of crime. Therefore, the seizure of my firearm was not allowed under Terry.

Secondly, having no suspicion of crime, why was I not free to go? Delaware v Prouse says that an officer cannot detain someone without reasonable suspicion of crime. McDonald had none. This is a sign of poor training and I want to bring it to your attention so that it can be easily remedied. All of your officers should know that they must have a suspicion of an actual crime before making a detainment.

Thirdly, Officer McDonald demanded my ID and would not return my firearm to me when I requested to end the encounter. Maine law in Title 17A Sec 15-A only requires someone to provide their name and DOB if the officer is issuing a summons to the individual. The officer said he needed to see my ID to ensure that I was not a felon. When asked if he had any reason to believe I was a felon, he said he did not. Again, he is making demands and detaining me without suspicion of any criminal activity. Terry requires more than a mere hunch to initiate a detainment. Hiibel v Nevada and Brown v Texas both require reasonable suspicion of crime before demanding an ID.

Officer McDonald admitted that the only reason why he stopped me was because of my legally carried firearm. I would like to point you to US v DeBerry from the 7th Circuit. In that ruling a federal judge said that a the presence of a firearm where legal to possess cannot by itself be reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.

I believe that a lot of progress has been made under your direction to restore proper and legal police work in your city. I strongly believe that through proper training incidents such as this can be avoided. My suggestion to officers responding to a legally armed man in the future is this: Attempt to initiate a consensual encounter. If the individual does not consent to a police encounter, then observe that individual until such time that the officer develops a reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot. Only then should a detainment be made.

If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to call. I am not a litigious person, but I do not appreciate violations of my rights.

Signed,
XXXXXXXXXX
Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX


not sure if it's been posted here or if you already know, but i saw your video on "the daily paul" website... apparently the Dr likes your courage.

http://www.dailypaul.com/241453/video-legal-open-carry-man-cites-law-cops-back-down
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
not sure if it's been posted here or if you already know, but i saw your video on "the daily paul" website... apparently the Dr likes your courage.

http://www.dailypaul.com/241453/video-legal-open-carry-man-cites-law-cops-back-down

I doubt that Ron Paul saw it. It's a forum post. That's like saying because I posted it here, the owners of OCDO must like my courage... They might, and Mr. Paul might, but I don't see anywhere where he commented directly. (Thought that would be hella cool)
 
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