Welcome to OCDO-WI. Over reacting.
OK, first things first... Hi, great forum, first post, lurker for months, CCW holder, open carry every day...
Now that my two boys are getting older (9 & 10) I've been taking them to McMiller range in Eagle, WI about once a month since the weather has started getting good this year. I let them burn off 1000rds or so of .22LR between them, a bit on paper, but mostly on their new plinking range. They love it, and they're starting to get pretty darn good.
I open carry there, with the caveat of not being able to OC while actually on the range, during a cease fire. OK, safety is paramount, I can live with that. So except for on the plinking range (no cease fires, so I just carry) I unload and leave my gun on the table, breach open, chamber flag in; everyone's happy.
Every other time I've been there I've seen range officers carrying. Good, they should. In fact, I think it should be mandatory for range officers to carry. They have the luxury of the situational awareness I lack while concentrating downrange or on my kids. Since I'm in a compromising position, they're my first line of defense.
Today was different though. I half noticed that I hadn't seen a range officer carrying. Not totally odd, not all of them do. Then I saw one that I recognized as someone that does carry. I wasn't going to say anything, but then another employee (not a range officer) asked him why he wasn't carrying anymore. Alright, interest piqued, I had to insert myself into the conversation and find out what was going on.
Apparently they've been ordered to no longer carry by the management. Dan/Dave (darn hearing protection) the manager told them he could tell by the body language of the customers that they were bothered by range officers carrying. SERIOUSLY??? People were afraid of a gun, AT A GUN RANGE!!! I hate to speculate, but if that excuse is true it was probably some busybodies from Illinois (although we have plenty of our own these days).
I was pretty mad, but I didn't want to cause a scene with my boys there, so I let it go. I can get pretty loud (ok, VERY loud, Ooh Rah!), my boys don't need to learn a bunch of new words quite yet.
Is my anger justified, or am I over-reacting?
Welcome to OCDO-WI. Over reacting.
Nope. Those that don't want a RO to carry can go to a range that doesn't allow that (good luck!).
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)
If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor
I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)
Well this is the same range that made me fold my simple silhouette targets over. "the range management isn't comfortable with people shooting at targets that are human shaped, they don't want to create the wrong impression" I was told by the RO. The same range that doesn't allow double taps, and told me I needed more than two seconds between rounds. From what I gather this is another one of those places that is run by folks who shoot clay, 300yd, and do league shooting. Another group of people who think any shooting form besides the particular one they enjoy is fringe and not needed. You are supposed to support their particular use of the the 2nd amendment, but they don't support the way I or someone else exercises our 2nd amendment. They think "their way" of shooting is better, and anything else is amateur, not real shooting, or extreme. This type of **** is how we end up with in fighting and destruction of our rights over all. Every shooting group needs to support the other.
Keep in mind the true management of McMillers is the Wisconsin DNR. The facility is currently leased by Milford Hills. Previously, it was Wern Valley. I think many of the convoluted rules come down from above.
Range officers, no silhouette's, no rapid fire, no doubles.
WTF special kind of B-S do you people have going on down there? Every time I hear about this garbage, it makes feel a little better living in the middle of nowhere and being able to shoot at a near deserted range almost anytime during daylight hours, if I want to shoot 100 Yds, I go to Caywood, if I want to shoot at 300 Yds, I go to the Boulder Junction range, if I want to plink, I walk out my door.
Is McMiller a pay to play range? Make your dissatisfaction known through your use of funds, and let them know why you will no longer shoot there, and try to get a group to join you until they change,
I'm agreeing it's probably a FIB causing the problem.Originally Posted by bvukich
I think you're fine being mad about it, but I'd also be mad about not being afforded the same courtesy (respecting your rights).
Have you thought through how bass ackwards that is?I open carry there, with the caveat of not being able to OC while actually on the range, during a cease fire. OK, safety is paramount, I can live with that. So ... I unload and leave my gun on the table, breach open, chamber flag in; everyone's happy.
The pistol is completely safe in your holster. It's not going to go bang.
In order to "make it safe" according to the range rules, you run the risk of having an ND.
Same problem we used to have with transport - the law used to require us to do something inherently more dangerous than simply leaving the pistol where it was.
A range officer's job is to promote safety. How does being armed do that?Every other time I've been there I've seen range officers carrying. Good, they should. In fact, I think it should be mandatory for range officers to carry. They have the luxury of the situational awareness I lack while concentrating downrange or on my kids. Since I'm in a compromising position, they're my first line of defense.
How would being armed solve anything? If I see someone with poor muzzle control, I'm not going to shoot him. I'd correct the problem, explain why it's a problem, explain what will happen if I see it again (removal from the range, if I'm in charge).
(Depending on how well I know him he might get a head slap a la Gibbs on NCIS.)
There are some who will say that nobody who's behind someone else should ever have a firearm anywhere other than lying on the bench, open. Wouldn't that also apply to the RSO? (I'm not of that group; as long as it's holstered I don't see a problem.)
Last edited by MKEgal; 05-27-2012 at 09:39 PM.
Originally Posted by MLK, JrOriginally Posted by MSG LaigaieOriginally Posted by Proverbs 27:12Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
We carry to promote our safety (self and family) nothing about that should change with context of hobby/duty/vocation. If I were the RSO on duty and I was asked why I was armed/carrying, I would feel like I was talking to martians and think "oh, the irony". RSO, or anyone, should be able to come and go, work/play, and carry the whole time. Anything less is oppression. Being an armed RSO isn't about addressing chores at the range, it is about exercising RKBA in general. It's about being an armed "anything" (lawful). Just like when we go shopping, jogging, hiking, bowling, dining, etc etc.
I know you know this and am not having a go at you. Just wanted to differentiate between the RSO, his/her duties, and RKBA.
The bull doesn't need horns to eat grass. He just needs them to keep others off his back while he does go about his business, just in case some liberal whacked out psychopath animal tries to interfere with his God given freedom.
In general, to reply to OP, the question of "how angry is enough, or too much, etc" is that you should/would/could simply voice your position, and vote (spend time and money) at friendly places. I carry during range time when general shooting, period. Only exception is during a match when I am using that very sidearm and administrative/show clear, in/at cold area(s).
If I am told I can't have a holstered sidearm at a range while shooting in general (not a match/cold), then I will find another range. Even cold vs hot can be a matter of debate. Are the participants qualified to be there? If yes, then why cold? If No, then why allowed to participate? Yes, I know, in a perfect world.....
MKE gal ------ Keep up the good work and never quit the fight. I have tons of respect for your knowledge, skill, style and wit.
bvukich ------- I understand what your getting at. They can run that railroad any way they want, and we can take a different train to a range that get's it.