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Thread: Olympic Air Show

  1. #1
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Olympic Air Show

    The Olympic Air Show is coming up on 6/16 and 6/17. I was thinking about going. I found some info on the Port of Olympia website that discourages carrying firarms by the average citizen at the Olympia Regional Airport. Here is what I found.

    http://www.portolympia.com/DocumentView.aspx?DID=87
    05.13.11 No one, except duly authorized persons, peace officers, federal, state and
    local law enforcement officers, authorized Airport Agents, or members of
    the Armed Forces of the United States on official duty shall carry any
    firearms or explosives on the Airport grounds without the permission of the
    Airport Director. Persons granted permission to carry firearms shall be
    required to file a copy of a weapons permit authorization with the Airport
    office.
    RCW 9.41.300
    (e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

    Would an airshow be normally open to unscreened visitors?

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    The Olympic Air Show is coming up on 6/16 and 6/17. I was thinking about going. I found some info on the Port of Olympia website that discourages carrying firarms by the average citizen at the Olympia Regional Airport. Here is what I found.

    http://www.portolympia.com/DocumentView.aspx?DID=87
    RCW 9.41.300
    (e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

    Would an airshow be normally open to unscreened visitors?

    I'm pretty sure that as long as you're not going through the detectors, you're not being screened. No cite for it or anything, it's just what I think.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Reading the document, the Rules and Regulations 1) control commercial activity at the airport and 2) appear to be in conflict with RCW 9.41.300(e).

    1 - Since you will not be conducting commercial business, as that is defined by the rules/regs, my guess is that they do not apply to you. Hopefully you will not need an attorney to convince a judge of that.

    2 - Does Washington have a statewide preemption statute? If so the rules/regs probably are invalidated by that. If not, then the question is whether the airport authority has the legal authority to set standards stricter than found in RCW? My guess would be that they do not.

    The wording of the reg/rule you cite is ambiguous and possible unconstitutionally vague. One could argue that a Washington permit makes you an "authorized person" or that it takes specific authorization for each and every person, including LEO and military carying in the course of their duties. As a former professional bureaucrat I am highly disapopointed with the size of the loophole created.

    Getting down to practicalities - I doubt that they will be screening (metal detectors, pat-downs) everybody coming to see the air show. Which means they will need RAS/PC to pick you out of the herd. OCing would be RAS/PC based on how they probably want to interpret 1 & 2 above, which means you either need to be prepared for the discussion or willing to settle the matter in the justice system. Copies of state appelate/supreme court case law might not be convincing to them in the heat of the moment, and carrying a folio of cases can be cumbersome. OTOH being able to show that you tried to show them the errors of their ways could go a long way towards getting a cash settlement out of them.

    Please post a follow-up on how it went.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Washington most deffinately does have a preemtion statute. But be very careful with the port of Olympia. Those guy are VERY dirty. If they have to falsify reports, and witnesses, they can and will. They have in the past. Also, a portion of that airport is operated by the state patrol. They are usually pretty relaxed, but the port may try and use that. Also, tumwater pd while usually pretty nice(with the exeption of ticketing) can come down very hard. If you're going to carry, it would most likely be in your favor to either CC, or if you want to OC as a statement, go into the TPD office, bring the RCWs with you and let them know what to expect so when they get called, they can respond in an informed manner. I grew up in tumwater but it's canged a lot in the last 10 years or so.

  5. #5
    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    If you are going to OC, go with other people, OC'ers.
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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post
    If you are going to OC, go with other people, OC'ers.
    I was thinking the same thing. Going at it alone would be foolish.

    I sent an email late last night to the Port of Olympia, but don't expect a reply until Tuesday.

  7. #7
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    The Port of Olympia is a Municipality just like the Port of Seattle. Some of you may remember the fight that Mainsail had with them... and won!

    Preemption covers municipalities (Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter.)

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Like the other guy said, go with a few others, and bring recording devices. Like I said, POO(port of olympia) have fixed documents before and I'm very sure will do again. The city of Olympia really isn't to bad, but the port is vicious when they want to be.

  9. #9
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    I just sent the same email to the Airport Director, Rudy Rudolph. I was getting tired of waiting for the Port of Olympia general email address reply.

    Here is his address. rudyr@portolympia.com

  10. #10
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    A very productive email from Mr. Rudolph...
    Hello Mr. C. *

    Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding the Olympia Airport Rules & Regulations section addressing the carrying of firearms on airport grounds. *

    After reviewing the RCW citations you provided below, it appears that our Airport Rules and Regulations prohibiting the carrying of firearms on airport grounds may be inconsistent with state law. *I have contacted our attorney for a discussion on this matter.

    When our rules and regulations were originally written, they were vetted by the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association and our local pilots and tenants. *No one identified the potential conflict with state law at that time.
    *
    It so happens that our Airport Rules and Regulations are currently being updated for 2012. *I will addresses this issue during that process, as well as addressing when federal statutes apply. *

    I will get back to you next week after I've had a chance to discuss this with the Port attorney.

    Thank you again for your attention to this matter. *Respectfully.


    Rudy Rudolph, A.A.E.
    Airport Director
    W. *(360) 528-8074
    C. * (360) 789-5455



    From: * * * *D C
    Subject: * * * *Airport Rules and Regulations



    Mr. Rudy Rudolph,

    Can you cite to the authority that allows the legal carry of a firearm to be prohibited at Olympia Regional Airport? The laws are very specific and fully preempted by the state of Washington. RCW 9.41.290 and 9.41.300 covers preemption and exceptions.

    Respectfully,
    D C
    Spanaway, WA
    Last edited by DCKilla; 06-01-2012 at 05:17 PM.

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    air show

    My son and I go to this event every year. There are guns everywhere. One year my son got into the driver seat of a striker. I told him don’t touch anything. The service person said oh don’t worry we turn everything off. So I went outside to take a picture of him. So with his head sticking out I could see his eyes. The next thing that happened was the fire suppression system going off in the engine bay. His eyes got really big and then he booked out of there. I said what did you do and he said “nothing, I didn’t touch anything…. Except for the one thing that I pulled.”

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    How nice to get an intelligent, and considerate response.
    And oh yes, you got to watch out for those pesky fire suppression systems.
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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    I'm impressed, maybe there's been a change of attitude since my few run-ins with them. That's actually very encouraging. Well done Sir!

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by massivedesign View Post
    If you are going to OC, go with other people, OCers.
    I just had a thought on the POO (I love it!) violating preemption. Going in a group opens up a possibility for a citizen's arrest. Grabbing someone and cuffing them by force is assault, which is absolutely a breach of the peace. If the person being arrested for OC didn't break the law, then the arrest is false, which is itself a crime. Police get a pass on assault laws for necessary actions in the line of duty, but making a false arrest for exercising a constitutional right isn't in the line of duty.

    If you see the guy ahead of you get subjected to what would be assault or battery outside of a line-of-duty action, and assault is both a misdemeanor and a breach of the peace, wouldn't it follow that a citizen's arrest could be made? After all, the only restriction on making a citizen's arrest of a uniformed officer is you cannot forcibly disarm him unless he tries to draw his sidearm while resisting arrest.

    As statements about not tolerating violations of state preemption go, it would be a hell of a statement.

  15. #15
    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Ehhh. no. I would not try to arrest a police officer in that situation. I would become the worlds BEST witness though.
    www.WaGuns.org

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  16. #16
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    I just had a thought on the POO (I love it!) violating preemption. Going in a group opens up a possibility for a citizen's arrest. Grabbing someone and cuffing them by force is assault, which is absolutely a breach of the peace. If the person being arrested for OC didn't break the law, then the arrest is false, which is itself a crime. Police get a pass on assault laws for necessary actions in the line of duty, but making a false arrest for exercising a constitutional right isn't in the line of duty.

    If you see the guy ahead of you get subjected to what would be assault or battery outside of a line-of-duty action, and assault is both a misdemeanor and a breach of the peace, wouldn't it follow that a citizen's arrest could be made? After all, the only restriction on making a citizen's arrest of a uniformed officer is you cannot forcibly disarm him unless he tries to draw his sidearm while resisting arrest.

    As statements about not tolerating violations of state preemption go, it would be a hell of a statement.
    I will not be performing any citizen's arrest. My reasons for going to the airshow is to see cool stuff with my family and to promote peaceful OC. That's it.

  17. #17
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Difdi...That is what the federal court is for...that is where you "arrest" their illegal activities...I would never attempt to "arrest" someone the I KNOW to be a LEO. Now, for an impersonater...that is a different situation.\\

    Sounds like your Airport director is a resonable person...Good Luck!

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