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Thread: I can understand the logic behind CC, but when would open carry be appropriate? Help!

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    I can understand the logic behind CC, but when would open carry be appropriate? Help!

    There are a lot of very nice people on the forum linked below. Unfortunately, they are not well informed about OC.

    I have invited them to come here to learn about OC.

    http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/co...propriate.html

    It seems like they agree on everyone's rights but have only gotten their toes wet with CC.

    Imagine how liberated they would be if they discovered OC!

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    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    There are a lot of very nice people on the forum linked below. Unfortunately, they are not well informed about OC.

    I have invited them to come here to learn about OC.

    http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/co...propriate.html

    It seems like they agree on everyone's rights but have only gotten their toes wet with CC.

    Imagine how liberated they would be if they discovered OC!
    Thanks for the link. It doesn't look like a bad site. If and when I get my Taurus 24/7 G2, I may have to drop by. Personally, I carry foremost, to protect myself and family. I OC most of the time, and CC some of the time. It depends on where I am going, what I'm wearing (like if I have a coat or not), or just simply just cause I feel like carrying one way or another. It's my right, and it's my choice. Both sides have good arguments, but neither can be right all of the time. OC and CC have advantages and disadvantages. OC can either get you killed or save your life. CC can either get you killed or save your life, depending on the circumstances. Honestly, I do like people to see my gun. It's not to show off or bring attention to myself. It's to proudly exercise my 2nd amendment right. I like to show that just because you are carrying a weapon, it doesn't mean that you are some kind of mad man. I want them to see that I am friendly,non intimidating and responsible. Hopefully if they see more types like this, they will become more acclimated to the sight of firearms and be more accepting. Some people that are strictly CCers look down on OCers. I could say that if you only CC, that you may be embarrassed of letting people know that you are for gun rights, or you feel shame over having a gun, but I don't. It's your choice. But like our slogan says here at OCDO, "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"
    Last edited by hjmoosejaw; 05-27-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    There are times when I am at a loss for how to tell someone that they really are not helping. This, thankfully, is not one of them. I have more than enough words, but would want to use each and every one of them.

    Either that or a clue-bat. I'm sort of torn on which direction to go.

    I just hope that I can get to him before a cop does.

    stay safe.

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    I live in tn and have a ccw permit, those with a permit can carry cc, or oc. I carry cc when i am out doing normal things, shopping, eating out, ect. The times i think oc is a good idea is when you come out of a building to find the parking lot is not lit well. If you walk out with your gun open and your hand on or near it it tells any bg you are armed and prepared which ends most issues before they start. Or when you get that late night call that your kid has broken down someplace you would have told them not to goto. Same result tells bgs you are prepared. Most bgs will not go after a target they think is ready for them, i do not walkaround walmart with my guns exposed that would just be asking for trouble but when you are in an area that makes you uncomfortable a hand on a handgrib does give you some comfort.


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    I hate that it's so divided. I CC and OC, it just makes life easier if you accept both and don't try to limit it. It's also very sad that all of the negative experiences I've had while OCing were from hardcore CCers telling me to cover up or telling me that I "CAN'T" OC...
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    Regular Member BFDMikeCT's Avatar
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    I CC but I in no way look down on OC. I actually am very jealous of OCers. I want to OC but have not seen anyone ever OC so I feel very awkward about it at this time. I am Hoping to maybe get a meet and greet around Fairfield county to make more people around here aware and more comfy with OC. I see many Benefits to OC as a deterrent to BG's. As well as a show of the 2A.
    Last edited by BFDMikeCT; 05-27-2012 at 09:21 PM.

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    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDMikeCT View Post
    I CC but I in no way look down on OC. I actually am very jealous of OCers. I want to OC but have not seen anyone ever OC so I feel very awkward about it at this time. I am Hoping to maybe get a meet and greet around Fairfield county to make more people around here aware and more comfy with OC. I see many Benefits to OC as a deterrent to BG's. As well as a show of the 2A.
    I know what you mean. It can be pretty lonely as an OCer. I am the only one around my area that I know of. I live in a little town in a rural area, so people are very used to guns. I live in Pa. and schools and a lot of small businesses close on the first day of deer season. But actually seeing people OCing, I've seen it a few times over the years. Daily life, you know, to the stores or whatever, probably like a twenty mile radius. I don't see 'em. I started out by going to the local grocery store. It was a little weird at first. Then I saw that half the people didn't even notice and the other half that did, acted like they didn't care at all. You see people glance at it, but that's about it. Now I'm comfortable walking through shopping malls, gas stations, wherever. Nobody grabs their kids and runs away screaming. I've done it a few years now and nobody has ever said anything. Good luck if you decide to try it. If you do, let us know how it went. Just go about your business and usually nobody cares. At least where I live, they don't.
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    It's never a question of appropriateness.

    People should be encouraged to carry, regardless of how they do so. While people should also be encouraged to push their comfort level a little, they certainly shouldn't be derided for not being comfortable with one or the other (although it's typically OC, not CC). And carrying, one way or another, should never come down to a question of what is "appropriate."

    Since deciding to open carry I've only had one negative experience that was less about my sidearm and more about my dog, oddly enough. Everything else has been neutral or quite positive. My worry was over other people's reactions and how comfortable I would be - took the plunge, found out, it's pretty easy.
    Last edited by TruxLupus; 05-28-2012 at 10:58 AM.

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruxLupus View Post
    It's never a question of appropriateness.

    People should be encouraged to carry, regardless of how they do so. While people should also be encouraged to push their comfort level a little, they certainly shouldn't be derided for not being comfortable with one or the other (although it's typically OC, not CC). And carrying, one way or another, should never come down to a question of what is "appropriate."

    Since deciding to open carry I've only had one negative experience that was less about my sidearm and more about my dog, oddly enough. Everything else has been neutral or quite positive. My worry was over other people's reactions and how comfortable I would be - took the plunge, found out, it's pretty easy.
    I agree!

    The whole reason that I posted the link to the thread was to allow some of the more eloquent ones on this forum the opportunity to address some of the mistaken perceptions of OC that many on other forums have, especially ones that CC only.

    There are people on here far more able to express the reasons for OC than I and perhaps if they were to comment on that thread in a non-bashing way, the ones that just think OC is plain wrong may at least understand that their reasons for believing that are based on incorrect assumptions.

    There is no "I am right, you are wrong" in the choice to carry legally when it comes to OC vs CC. It is all a matter of what a persons comfort level is and what their desire is to learn how to OC without getting in to trouble.

    The only thing that makes the whole issue "wrong" is when someone from either preference tells the other that they are wrong for carrying the way they choose.

    I also posted on that thread a link to this site so that people from there can come and educate themselves on OC.
    Last edited by rscottie; 05-28-2012 at 12:34 PM.

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    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    I agree!

    The whole reason that I posted the link to the thread was to allow some of the more eloquent ones on this forum the opportunity to address some of the mistaken perceptions of OC that many on other forums have, especially ones that CC only.

    There are people on here far more able to express the reasons for OC than I and perhaps if they were to comment on that thread in a non-bashing way, the ones that just think OC is plain wrong may at least understand that their reasons for believing that are based on incorrect assumptions.

    There is no "I am right, you are wrong" in the choice to carry legally when it comes to OC vs CC. It is all a matter of what a persons comfort level is and what their desire is to learn how to OC without getting in to trouble.

    The only thing that makes the whole issue "wrong" is when someone from either preference tells the other that they are wrong for carrying the way they choose.

    I also posted on that thread a link to this site so that people from there can come and educate themselves on OC.
    I went to that link and read all the replies again. There seemed to be an awful lot of good replies already posted in favor of OC. I don't know if I could add anything to make a difference. Maybe somebody else here can think of something that could. There are some people here with a very good ability to put their ideas into print. I have been pondering on something to write, but like I said, I don't know if I could do any better than some of the opinions already on that site. If a light bulb goes on, LOL, I'll try to do whatever I can to help.
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    With OCing its quicker to get the gun out and fire on target ... if I were to carry, it would be OC, not CC. I don't think that in real situations where discharging the weapon is appropriate that CC offers anything positive over OC but some folks don't want the hassle or bring attention to themselves...and CCing is more comfortable for many.

    If anyone has any stats (I have none, its a non-expert opinion) please post.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth
    With OCing its quicker to get the gun out and fire on target ... if I were to carry, it would be OC, not CC.
    Not necessarily. With a light, unbuttoned shirt as a cover garment, there's very little difference in drawing from a hip holster, even an IWB holster.

    I don't think that in real situations where discharging the weapon is appropriate that CC offers anything positive over OC but some folks don't want the hassle or bring attention to themselves...
    This gets debated constantly. To each their own.

    and CCing is more comfortable for many.
    Really? Why?

    If anyone has any stats (I have none, its a non-expert opinion) please post.
    Stats on what? You mentioned a couple different topics.
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    Regular Member KennyB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDMikeCT View Post
    I CC but I in no way look down on OC. I actually am very jealous of OCers. I want to OC but have not seen anyone ever OC so I feel very awkward about it at this time. I am Hoping to maybe get a meet and greet around Fairfield county to make more people around here aware and more comfy with OC. I see many Benefits to OC as a deterrent to BG's. As well as a show of the 2A.
    Mike, i've never seen another OC'er in my area besides myself. I've been OC'ing for a year and a half now with NO issues. I believe Alex in E. Htfd does as well as Rich in southern CT along with many others on the CT section of the board. Most people don't even notice, and those that do probably assume i'm a LEO. That's fine with me. All I want to do is go about my daily business while exercising my 2nd Amendment rights as a law abiding citizen. You'll know when your ready to OC, and it is a little wierd at first but that will change rather quickly when most don't even pay much attention to you. Good luck......

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    I'm the only OCer that I know of in my town as well. I was very self-conscious at first but like so many have already said, most people don't notice or don't care. I asked the manager at my local Family Video if he has any other openly armed customers. He said he thinks he remembers one other guy, but usually just me.
    In the past several months my only negative experience was Cracker Barrel. I wasn't even there that day but my wife OCd there with the kids and an assistant manager dug up something from the company web site saying only LEOs and security guards can carry there. We had both OCd there several times with no issues until that day. A person with a little authority, a history of bullying my wife (she works there) and an anti gun attitude ruined a good thing. We enjoyed the food and the employee discount. Now my wife seldom OCs anymore, and never without me.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    There are a lot of very nice people on the forum linked below. Unfortunately, they are not well informed about OC.

    It seems like they agree on everyone's rights but have only gotten their toes wet with CC.
    The question was "...when would open carry be appropriate?" The answer is: wherever it's legal, and whenever you wish. There are some federal restrictions, as well as state and local restrictions on the where. Not all states permit OC, and a few don't permit CC either. But, if you are in a state that allows OC/CC - like Utah - with few home-grown restrictions on where, you're in luck. Common sense may dictate foregoing that right in certain instances (I wouldn't recommend OC'ing into your local bank or psychiatric hospital, and never try to cross the security checkpoint at the airport, federal courthouse, etc. while OC'ing). Other than that, OC in an OC state anytime you want! "Appropriate" is a very subjective concept, as you will probably see in the replies to this post which will accuse me of heresy and being FoS. Pax...
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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    The question was "...when would open carry be appropriate?" The answer is: wherever it's legal, and whenever you wish. There are some federal restrictions, as well as state and local restrictions on the where. Not all states permit OC, and a few don't permit CC either. But, if you are in a state that allows OC/CC - like Utah - with few home-grown restrictions on where, you're in luck. Common sense may dictate foregoing that right in certain instances (I wouldn't recommend OC'ing into your local bank or psychiatric hospital, and never try to cross the security checkpoint at the airport, federal courthouse, etc. while OC'ing). Other than that, OC in an OC state anytime you want! "Appropriate" is a very subjective concept, as you will probably see in the replies to this post which will accuse me of heresy and being FoS. Pax...
    Good points! (except for the banks thing that I missed on first read...)

    I posted this link in this forum because people on here are good at explaining how the tired old arguments such as OC making you a target are unsubstantiated and I thought some may want to comment over there in the name of education.

    I do know that the same invitation for some of them to come over here has been accepted and there are a few new lurkers that are learning about OC and perhaps correcting some of the bad information or perceptions they have had in the past.

    This is the best forum for all things OC after all!
    Last edited by rscottie; 06-21-2012 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Clarified about the Banks Statement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    The question was "...when would open carry be appropriate?" The answer is: wherever it's legal, and whenever you wish. There are some federal restrictions, as well as state and local restrictions on the where. Not all states permit OC, and a few don't permit CC either. But, if you are in a state that allows OC/CC - like Utah - with few home-grown restrictions on where, you're in luck. Common sense may dictate foregoing that right in certain instances (I wouldn't recommend OC'ing into your local bank or psychiatric hospital, and never try to cross the security checkpoint at the airport, federal courthouse, etc. while OC'ing). Other than that, OC in an OC state anytime you want! "Appropriate" is a very subjective concept, as you will probably see in the replies to this post which will accuse me of heresy and being FoS. Pax...
    Why would you not recommend OCing in a local bank?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I was about to ask the same question. I OC in my banks (Wells Fargo and Chase) on many occasions.

    I also own property in AZ and in my visits to the real LOCAL banks (with names you've never heard of), I've never been the only armed customer in the lobby.
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-21-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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    Regular Member moonie's Avatar
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    At this point I believe only ONE state doesn't have CC in some form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    The question was "...when would open carry be appropriate?" The answer is: wherever it's legal, and whenever you wish. There are some federal restrictions, as well as state and local restrictions on the where. Not all states permit OC, and a few don't permit CC either. But, if you are in a state that allows OC/CC - like Utah - with few home-grown restrictions on where, you're in luck. Common sense may dictate foregoing that right in certain instances (I wouldn't recommend OC'ing into your local bank or psychiatric hospital, and never try to cross the security checkpoint at the airport, federal courthouse, etc. while OC'ing). Other than that, OC in an OC state anytime you want! "Appropriate" is a very subjective concept, as you will probably see in the replies to this post which will accuse me of heresy and being FoS. Pax...
    I OCed in the local branch of my bank a couple of weeks ago, 2 days later it was robbed.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Why would you not recommend OCing in a local bank?
    Here locally, the banks that I'm familiar with have either posted "No Weapons" signs, or signs on the entrances requiring one to "remove caps, hats, hoodies and sunglasses before entry". I just figure if they don't want you wearing head covering and/or sunglasses, they'd really freak if you were wearing a gun! Besides, for me, that's just one of those common sense things. Will Rogers had it right: common sense "...ain't all that common". Pax...
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    So you figure it's common sense to not carry a gun in a place with lots of money that robbers tend to frequently target? Because people might 'freak out'?

    Gosh, well, I'd better stop carrying when I take my son out for a walk, less a motorist freak out and crash. I'd better stop carrying in the grocery store; a freaked out clerk might drop a glass bottle and get cut. Churches, libraries, stores...anywhere that someone's perception and reaction might be negative to my right to exercise self defense.

    ETA: I should add that a few years ago, a desperate man on the edge of financial ruin decided to hold up the bank where my mother in law works. I know all the ladies that work there, by name, and I know the two ladies who were held hostage at gun point. The robber told them both they were going to die; that he was going to kill them, and how he would do it. S.W.A.T arrived and eventually the situation was resolved without any bloodshed, but not without emotional and mental trauma.

    I have thought many times over the years what I would have done if I'd been there; if I'd been armed, if I'd been unarmed. My conclusion is if I had been there, I'd want to be armed, no matter what happened.

    It's not illegal to carry in banks, especially one that does not have signs with weight of law, and you can bet your damn chewy, gooey, lucky stars that my husband and I carry everywhere we go, and if we can't carry somewhere, then we don't go. Peoples sensitivities be damned; my idea of common sense is being armed in places with escalating risk potential.
    Last edited by PistolPackingMomma; 06-21-2012 at 08:25 PM.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    If any building, including a bank, is a posted CPZ, then common sense says to not enter while armed.

    If a bank has no CPZ signs, but has a "no hats, sunglasses, hoodies, etc." sign, common sense tells you that the location has cameras and they want to see your face.

    It's pacifism that says you shouldn't do something lest you bother someone else.
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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonie View Post
    At this point I believe only ONE state doesn't have CC in some form.
    Actually, this is not entirely true...

    Illinois does not issue CC permits to citizens for ANY reason, and I think that is the state to which you are referring.

    However, Aldermen in Illinois may carry concealed.

    Two sets of laws for two classes of people--one for the "overlords" and one for the "serfs"...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 06-25-2012 at 07:25 PM.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    So you figure it's common sense to not carry a gun in a place with lots of money that robbers tend to frequently target? Because people might 'freak out'?
    Not "people", bank employees. Customers probably couldn't care less, but I really don't want to face the Roy PD SWAT Team, since the last guy that did left home in a body bag. When I go to the bank I'm not unarmed, just not OC'ing.

    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Gosh, well, I'd better stop carrying when I take my son out for a walk, less a motorist freak out and crash. I'd better stop carrying in the grocery store; a freaked out clerk might drop a glass bottle and get cut. Churches, libraries, stores...anywhere that someone's perception and reaction might be negative to my right to exercise self defense.
    You're free to do whatever you want... as am I.

    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    ETA: I should add that a few years ago, a desperate man on the edge of financial ruin decided to hold up the bank where my mother in law works. I know all the ladies that work there, by name, and I know the two ladies who were held hostage at gun point. The robber told them both they were going to die; that he was going to kill them, and how he would do it. S.W.A.T arrived and eventually the situation was resolved without any bloodshed, but not without emotional and mental trauma.

    I have thought many times over the years what I would have done if I'd been there; if I'd been armed, if I'd been unarmed. My conclusion is if I had been there, I'd want to be armed, no matter what happened.
    Yeah, you would have saved the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    It's not illegal to carry in banks, especially one that does not have signs with weight of law, and you can bet your damn chewy, gooey, lucky stars that my husband and I carry everywhere we go, and if we can't carry somewhere, then we don't go. Peoples sensitivities be damned; my idea of common sense is being armed in places with escalating risk potential.
    I never said it was illegal to carry in banks, just that it's my personal choice to be more discreet around folks who may already be a bit jumpy. Bank robberies DO happen in the local area. And, once again, I don't go to the bank unarmed... just unnoticed. Pax...
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  25. #25
    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    If any building, including a bank, is a posted CPZ, then common sense says to not enter while armed.

    If a bank has no CPZ signs, but has a "no hats, sunglasses, hoodies, etc." sign, common sense tells you that the location has cameras and they want to see your face.

    It's pacifism that says you shouldn't do something lest you bother someone else.
    Glad you got your wife's permission to form an opinion. Congratulations and pax...
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