California ex-congressman and felon wants to carry a gun

papa bear · May 28, 2012

hey NEWBIE, the example you gave was an antidote to one person. there are hundreds of thousands of ex-con that never do anything wrong again for the rest of their lives.

it would be like saying since one gun owner, did something wrong with a gun. then NO ONE should every own a gun again

the choice is theirs to make. you can not do a "Majority Report" on people, you must let them commit the crime before you punish them.

this is actually how this nation did things for 170 years till the gun grabbers used this to grab guns. they said we will take away the criminals guns. so everyone thought that was good. then the guns used in crime.......till. well you know the rest of the story

Herr Heckler Koch · May 28, 2012

newbie said:
his name kevin j lombard. of hartford wisconsin....now that was one of my bestfriends my whole life i wrote him letters once a week until the murder charge. here is a link to his last crime. http://www.nbc26.com/news/local/127638788.html now ask yourself do you really want people committing non violent crimes to have a gun?

That's quite a rap sheet but there's no murder charge on it.

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl

newbie · May 28, 2012

Herr Heckler Koch said:
That's quite a rap sheet but there's no murder charge on it.

http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl

as of now he is pending trial. he is trying to barter it down to reckless homicide. witch as of now there is still no deal for that the DA still wants to press for murder. but he says it started out as a night of drinking at a hotel, witch led to a argument, witch then led to him getting on top of her and choking her until she was un responsive. he said he didnt think that would happen and since he called 911 on himself right away that it should not be murder. the DA and girls family so far is disagreeing.

now he is my friend but i dont think hes safe on the outside. and fully agree with him getting a murder charge.

he used to call me all the time and let me know what was happening with the case and i have not heard from him since the 3rd week after his arrest.

XD4ME · May 28, 2012

so....

Just need to ask . If a man is convicted of DUI , should he lose ANY of his rights for life ?

One of my workers , as well as a few friends falls into this category . For each one , that is the only criminal record they have . But now , because they are "felons" , they can no longer own firearms . Does that seem right ?

Each payed the societal price-- fines,loss of license,jail time . Isn't removal of any right after that , for life , excessive?

Article 8 :

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Would not the removal of a right be excessive?

Felid`Maximus · May 28, 2012

Newbie, it seems to me that your friend did not need a gun to kill somebody. Merely being out of prison and having his bare hands appeared to be all he needed.

You say that before he went to prison, he was not violent, and after prison he was so detached from the world that he wanted to go back in and now he was violent too. If indeed prison has warped him to not be able to live outside of it, and made him violent, then the prison system itself is not working properly. Prison ought to be about results, in my opinion, more than punishment. The goal of the prison system should be to reduce crime.

As for the carjacker example, chances are if he is a convict and used to selling illegal goods, he has a source for guns without buying them legally...

LkWd_Don · May 28, 2012

I find myself conflicted in the thought of permanent removal of firearm possession rights to anyone who has served his time.

On one side of my conflict, is the knowledge that far too many innocent people are convicted of crimes they did not commit and sent to prison to begin with. If their case is never overturned, some might argue that they should still lose their 2A rights permanently and I can not condone that.

The other side of my conflict is that I see our prison system as being broken from the get go. Our prisons are far too easy on those who are actually criminals and are not being rehabilitating in any sense of the word, they simply allow those criminals who do not wish to be there, the opportunity to be taught how to be better criminals or learn how not to get caught. And then of course, there are so many who find that life in the Prison System is a lot easier than life outside of it and will recommit more violent crimes just to be sent back where they can eat, sleep, watch television, read books, use the built-in health-club facilities, enjoy great medical care and all without worrying about how to pay for any of it.

In the Congressman's case, his was not a crime of violence, so my opinion is that maybe require a certain amount of time (maybe as much as 5 years) to show that he is not going to re-offend and then reinstate his rights. Any greater restriction would be a crime in and of itself.

Herr Heckler Koch · May 28, 2012

newbie said:
as of now he is pending trial. he is trying to barter it down to reckless homicide. witch as of now there is still no deal for that the DA still wants to press for murder. but he says it started out as a night of drinking at a hotel, witch led to a argument, witch then led to him getting on top of her and choking her until she was un responsive. he said he didnt think that would happen and since he called 911 on himself right away that it should not be murder. the DA and girls family so far is disagreeing.

now he is my friend but i dont think hes safe on the outside. and fully agree with him getting a murder charge.

he used to call me all the time and let me know what was happening with the case and i have not heard from him since the 3rd week after his arrest.

Oh my! A secret indictment, or a lie? Lombard has no open case files in Wisconsin.

follow the linked URL http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl Click the "I Agree" button. Fill in the names and click "Search" Ten state files, all closed, the latest 346.04(3) fleeing.

Indictments are public record.

newbie · May 28, 2012

Felid`Maximus said:
Newbie, it seems to me that your friend did not need a gun to kill somebody. Merely being out of prison and having his bare hands appeared to be all he needed.

You say that before he went to prison, he was not violent, and after prison he was so detached from the world that he wanted to go back in and now he was violent too. If indeed prison has warped him to not be able to live outside of it, and made him violent, then the prison system itself is not working properly. Prison ought to be about results, in my opinion, more than punishment. The goal of the prison system should be to reduce crime.

As for the carjacker example, chances are if he is a convict and used to selling illegal goods, he has a source for guns without buying them legally...

he never stole a car to sell it, he was only into joyriding in the cars. he was a good kid from a small city. he had no huge crime friends it was just us small town kids. where the biggest crimes we did back then was smoke a little pot and steal cigs from out parents at that age. (i should add before everyone thinks im a druggy i was a kid then) yes the prison systems have failed and turned him into a killer. But the point i want to prove is just to show that these kind of people shouldnt get to own a firearm. hell if they want to go get one illegally let them! that way its a extra 5 years in prison plus whatever crime they do.

really everyone needs to ask themselfs hey do i really want to give this felon a right to guns? if you say no then your with me on that.
if you say yes, well then you gave him a gun and a stray bullet could hit you or a loved one.

if you say hey you have a gun to, well just remember theres always someone whos one step ahead of you. and thats the only point i was trying to prove.

as for DUI or OWI felons, psh come to wisconsin you can get 6 and its not a felony according to a paper i read the other day.

Herr Heckler Koch · May 28, 2012

newbie said:
as for DUI or OWI felons, psh come to wisconsin you can get 6 and its not a felony according to a paper i read the other day.

OWI fourth can be a six year felony http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf

XD4ME · May 28, 2012

as for DUI or OWI felons, psh come to wisconsin you can get 6 and its not a felony according to a paper i read the other day.

Maine is the FIRST count equals a felony .

newbie · May 28, 2012

Herr Heckler Koch said:
OWI fourth can be a six year felony http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/docs/owi-penchrt.pdf

i have not heard that before i seen in the paper the lady who got her 6th owi was just put on probation. i dont know anyone first hand with that many, but i do know my friends brother had 3 and it was not a felony. he did have to sit 6 months in the county jail for it though.

also in Main that is kind of harsh, i dont condone drunk driving nor will i ever because iv lost 4 people i know due to drunk driving accidents. I feel that it is wrong to be behind the wheel risking other peoples lives including there own and there should be punishment if busted. But i dont think you should be a felon for that.

so ill say i have one exception to the felons having guns. and that is only owi dwi (first time offenders only) because really if you dont learn after the first time you should have a worse punishment.

XD4ME · May 28, 2012

so ill say i have one exception to the felons having guns. and that is only owi dwi (first time offenders only) because really if you dont learn after the first time you should have a worse punishment.

Interesting. So you are ok with all the following felonies losing their rights even after serving time etc? ( These are just some of NYC felonies)

aggravated criminal contempt 215.52
auto-stripping in the first degree 165.11
bail jumping in the first degree 215.57
bribe giving for public office 200.45
bribe receiving by a juror 215.20
bribe receiving by a labor official 180.25
bribe receiving by a witness 215.05
bribe receiving for public office 200.50
bribe receiving in the third degree 200.10
bribery in the third degree 200.00
bribery of a labor official 180.15
bribing a juror 215.19
bribing a witness 215.00
burglary in the third degree 140.20
coercion in the first degree 135.65
computer tampering in the second degree 156.26
conspiracy in the third degree 105.13
criminal diversion of prescription medications second degree 178.20
criminal mischief in the second degree 145.10
criminal possession of a controlled substance in the fifth degree 220.06
criminal possession of a forged instrument in the second degree 170.25
criminal possession of forgery devices 170.40
criminal possession of marijuana in the second degree 221.25
criminal possession of public benefit cards in the second degree 158.45
criminal possession of stolen property in the third degree 165.50
criminal sale of a controlled substance in the fifth degree 220.31
criminal sale of marijuana in the second degree 221.50
criminal solicitation in the second degree 100.10
criminal tampering in the first degree 145.20
criminal trespass in the first degree 140.17
criminally using drug paraphernalia in the first degree 220.55
disseminating indecent material to minors in the first degree 235.22
endangering the welfare of a vulnerable elderly person in the first degree 260.34
escape in the first degree 205.15
forgery in the second degree 170.10
fraudulently making of an electronic access device in the second degree 170.75
grand larceny in the third degree 155.35
hindering prosecution in the first degree 205.65
impairing the integrity of a pari-mutuel betting system first 180.53
insurance fraud in the third degree 176.20
obscenity in the first degree 235.07
obstructing governmental administration by means of a self-defense spray device 195.08
patronizing a prostitute in the first degree 230.06
perjury in the first degree 210.15
promoting a sexual performance by a child 263.15
promoting an obscene sexual performance by a child 263.10
promoting prison contraband in the first degree 205.25
promoting prostitution in the third degree 230.25
rape in the second degree 130.30
reckless endangerment in the first degree 120.25
robbery in the third degree 160.05
sodomy in the second degree 130.45
sports bribing 180.40
stalking in the first degree 120.60
tampering with a witness in the second degree 215.12
tampering with public records in the first degree 175.25
unauthorized use of a vehicle in the first degree 165.08
vehicular assault in the first degree 120.04
vehicular manslaughter in the second degree 125.12
welfare fraud in the third degree

XD4ME · May 29, 2012

I think there is a common misconception that there are not that many felonies , and that they are all for very bad criminal conduct . Truth be told , there are so many felonies , both state and federal , that the odds of someone getting one are getting higher . Add to that how many prosecutors are out to "make a name for themselves" , and you have a recipe for disarming the public .

Lets not forget losing your 2A rights for a misdemeanor etc (Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban).

We need to go back to putting and keeping the hostile and dangerous behind bars . Stop putting people behind bars over victimless crimes and making them a felon . Release means you are free , therefore you gain your unalienable rights back .

newbie · May 29, 2012

Herr Heckler Koch said:
Oh my! A secret indictment, or a lie? Lombard has no open case files in Wisconsin.

follow the linked URL http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl Click the "I Agree" button. Fill in the names and click "Search" Ten state files, all closed, the latest 346.04(3) fleeing.

Indictments are public record.

hmm, thats pretty strange because i know for a fact he is in jail right now waiting for trial. heres the links that i can still find of his involvement in the murder

http://www.nbc26.com/news/local/127638788.html ( posted before)

snip from ^ link

"23-year-old Kevin Lombard of Richfield is in jail accused of choking his girlfriend 18-year-old Amelia Schmitz during an argument. It happened at America's Best Value Inn around 2:30 Friday morning"

hmm i just went on the victims facebook memorial page and heres a link to a news paper that says files were not charged yet. im not sure the date of this.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....244742128930155.59133.177644872306548&type=1

i dont know if the DA is just screwing around making him sit more time before files get charged or what because i know he was also on probation and i see nothing of a probation violation, im going to try to get ahold of his sister tomorrow and she may be able to fill me in on whats going on with his case.

newbie · May 29, 2012

XD4ME said:
Interesting. So you are ok with all the following felonies losing their rights even after serving time etc? ( These are just some of NYC felonies)

disseminating indecent material to minors in the first degree 235.22 ( sick people like should not have guns, simple)

escape in the first degree 205.15 (soming escaping prison or jail, i sure dont want them to have guns)

promoting a sexual performance by a child 263.15 ( goes with the top one sick people shouldnt have guns)

promoting an obscene sexual performance by a child 263.10 ( if someone trys this with my kids ill kill them, they should not have guns)

rape in the second degree 130.30 "
he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person who is
incapable of consent by reason of being mentally disabled or mentally
incapacitated." ( no i do not want that person to have a gun.

stalking in the first degree 120.60 ( people who stalk other people are unstable and should not have firearms)

tampering with a witness in the second degree 215.12 ( this could really mean anything so im 50/50 on this one)

vehicular assault in the first degree 120.04 ( if they are going to use there car they will use a gun on you)

now i will admit there are a few i dont agree with, but i will not say that these few above deserve guns. exp people with child sex crimes. they are the bottom of the barrel and should be treated as so IMO. because i have kids and i will not stand for any person trying sex acts with them.

Domestic Violence this is another one that im 50/50 on, men and women can get this charge. and it really depends on how severe it really was.
and im not talking about a domestic charge where the girl calls the police because the husband,boyfriend is yelling at her. that should be dismissed. However if you man or woman, beats the piss out of your wife,girlfriend,boyfriend,husband bloody them up then ill go ahead and say you shouldnt have firearms.
but if its a case of yelling back and forth then id let them. i dont see a problem with it.

i am in no way shape or form saying i agree with all the laws out there. but there are some that are ment to be kept. but who cares this is all my opinion so theres really no need to get mad about what i think. disagreements are common in this world.

twoskinsonemanns · May 29, 2012

It's sad what happened to this kid. He made a mistake that led him into a the criminal detainment institution that is clearly broken and difficult to get out of.
I don't claim to have the answers but changes need to be made.
Many will find this appalling but if he was publicly flogged or sentenced to hard larbour to work off the damages he probably would have come away from it better off. Mature and ready to live out a productive life.
Instead he was sent to a very costly (for tax payers) institute where is was cultivated into a life-long criminal.

XD4ME · May 29, 2012

i am in no way shape or form saying i agree with all the laws out there. but there are some that are ment to be kept. but who cares this is all my opinion so theres really no need to get mad about what i think. disagreements are common in this world.

I was just making a point that felonies are becoming a dime a dozen and easier to get . what I posted was just one list of one type of felony just in NY.

I am not mad by any means . Just understand that rights are just that , rights . We as a people are losing not just our 2A rights , but many of the others as well due to the "well, just a little more" attitude . Free speech? How about free speech zones ..... etc etc .

One thing I have to ask people that persist in taking a felons guns away ................ Do YOU believe they no longer have the right to self defense? If not , will YOU protect them? How would YOU feel if you were charged with a felony and could no longer have the means of defense?

As I said earlier , the justice system needs a revamp . Why are killers being set free in order to make room for petty drug criminals etc etc ? Just remember , we jail more people per population than any other country out there . That tells you something.

skidmark · May 29, 2012

XD4ME said:
....

One thing I have to ask people that persist in taking a felons guns away ................ Do YOU believe they no longer have the right to self defense? If not , will YOU protect them? How would YOU feel if you were charged with a felony and could no longer have the means of defense?

....

We really should remember our history, so that I do not have to repeat it to folks so often. (OK, curmudgeon rant completed. One of the perks of being a curmudgeon is being able to rant.:lol

Originally our system looked at felonies as those crimes for which the penalty was death, and of course everything else was a misdemeanor. But since there were no jails as we know them today, and folks were really not in support of feeding/clothing/housing misdemeanants when doing so for one's self was a daily struggle, the concept of "outlaw" was developed. Literally it meant someone outside the protection of the law. Not all misdemeanants were outlawed, but if the crime was serious enough, or was the current crime was the straw that broke the camel's back they were outlawed. And that included no longer having the protection of those parts of Common Law that were finally codified into the notions of Castle Doctrine and excusable/justified homicide. Outlaws had no legal right to defend themselves and had no right to the means of self defense.

When our society began thinking that turning criminals out to live in the woods without the support of society was "bad" the concept of incarceration came into vogue. The whole notion of incarceration and the concommitant losses of freedom and rights scared the bejabbers out of the law-abiding because they valued those concepts and believed that their loss would be a significant loss. Outlaws, who had survived without those things already did not see things the same way - they saw incarceration as an irritant that was tempered by no longer having to struggle for basic existence. (Yes, this is a very condensed explanation that will not go into the psychology and sociology of how all this developed and is played out in modern times.) Soon the push to see bad people punished became much more powerful than the notion of either allowing them to live mean lives outside the law and society or shooting them down on sight. (Remember the "Wanted Dead or Alive" posters from our frontier days?) That's because law-abiding folks considered the greatest punishment to be the loss of their freedom. Outlaws, who had survived without those things already did not see things the same way - they saw incarceration as an irritant that was tempered by no longer having to struggle for basic existence. (But didn't I say that already?)

It is a very recent notion that everybody, regardless of station and circumstance, has a set of basic rights that includes the right of self defense. The solidification of that notion into case law has occurred within my lifetime.

In the current state of the world there is much to recommend the return to outlawing folks. One of the few things standing in the way of doing so is "political correctness".

I'm all for restoring rights to folks who have returned to the fold of law-abindingness. But I also know that a large percentage of folks who used to be locked up for criminal behavior recidivate (arrested and convicted) within 3 years of their release from incarceration. So I want to see an even longer period of law-abidingness - say 5 years - before any restoration takes place. Why so long? Because, as many studies and anecdotal experience both tell us, anybody can run a con for 30 days, some can run a con for 90 days, and darned few can run a con for a year. I just want to give them not only all the rope needed to hang themselves if they are inclined to do so, but to give them an incentive to show that "faking it till you make it" can actually turn into a lifestyle.

stay safe.

XD4ME · May 29, 2012

Excellent post Skidmark!

i understand what you are saying and the history behind it . I believe one of the reasons for incarceration vs outlawing people is space. During the times of "outlaws" America was still not fully settled . There was space to push them out of society to fend for themselves and be away from the law abiding populace . Not so much as the country was settled .

Prior to our revolution convicts were sent here from Britain and essentially used as cheap labor . Even Washington bought convicts to work at Mt Vernon . Others as we know were sent to another colony known as Australia . The ones that came to America served their sentence and either went back to Britain or became citizens here( with rights restored) . Later in our history when jails became prevalent , chain gangs came about , mostly in the south .

I think you are correct that crime and punishment has become to "pc" . Housing murderers and career criminals for decades because it is more "humane" is bs . not using the inmates of lesser crimes in a productive manner rather than just giving them a place to stay is also bs .

As you said , felonies of days gone past were dealt with by death etc . And correct me if I am wrong , but misdemeanors in themselves did not preclude one from retaining their rights , unless they were essentially "career criminals " . Now jump forward to today and you have thousands of felonies on the books . With more being added yearly . That is where I was going in initial posts . A single crime that may only get you 1 year in jail has become enough to strip you of your rights forever.

Should a man become a felon for doing what he wants on his own private property ? Things like , building a house , grading the land , etc etc ? Well , people do and have become felons for that . Cutting to many of your own trees on your own land could essentially make you a felon .

I'm all for restoring rights to folks who have returned to the fold of law-abindingness. But I also know that a large percentage of folks who used to be locked up for criminal behavior recidivate (arrested and convicted) within 3 years of their release from incarceration. So I want to see an even longer period of law-abidingness - say 5 years - before any restoration takes place. Why so long? Because, as many studies and anecdotal experience both tell us, anybody can run a con for 30 days, some can run a con for 90 days, and darned few can run a con for a year. I just want to give them not only all the rope needed to hang themselves if they are inclined to do so, but to give them an incentive to show that "faking it till you make it" can actually turn into a lifestyle.

That would be probation I believe . When you are on probation you essentially do not have all your rights as a free man . I have no issue with that . Probation is part of the sentence . As you said , give them the rope........

If a man serves his time and makes it through 5(?) years of probation without committing any more crimes , shouldn't he have the ability to regain his rights at that point?

rodbender · May 29, 2012

newbie said:
his crimes was theft of automobiles. not violent in any way.

Yep. And him not being able to legally buy or possess a firearm sure did a lot to prevent him from committing murder, didn't it?

If they can't be trusted to walk around in society, keep them locked up. If they can be trusted, give them ALL their rights back.

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