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Thread: MSNBC Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    MSNBC Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-fi...#ixzz1w6mBDLvo
    Quote Originally Posted by By Mark Finkelstein
    Effete: affected, overrefined, and ineffectual; see "Chris Hayes." OK, I appended the name of the MSNBC host to the dictionary definition. But if ever you wanted to see the human embodiment of the adjective in action, have a look at the video from his MSNBC show this morning of the too-refined-by-half Hayes explaining why he is "uncomfortable" in calling America's fallen military members "heroes."

    Hayes is worried that doing so is "rhetorically proximate" to justifications for more war. Oh, the rhetorical proximity!

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    Thumbs down MSNBC Credibility,,,LOL !

    To Herr Koch, I appreciate that you are doing a service to keep us on this forum informed.

    My .02 worth,,, ain't much, but.....

    MSNBC, logical translation = Mentally Suspect Nonsensical Brainwashed Commies

    Since when should anyone with the least bit of reasoning care at all what MSM (Especially MSNBC) has to report about anything

    Chris Hayes is the Associate Counsel for President Barack Obama & Hayes's brother Luke is a Democratic political operative.
    On November 5, 2010, MSNBC announced that Hayes would be filling in for Keith Olbermann during Olbermann's suspension; however, the network later backtracked after finding out that Hayes had also made political contributions - the issue over which Olbermann was being suspended.

    Any other "support" from the Obama crowd should be considered a treasonous act,,,,, can you say... *** Impeach*** or at least the official Loser on Nov.7 2012 !!!

    PEACE & RKBA 4EVER !
    Last edited by scott58dh; 05-28-2012 at 12:51 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic. But maybe I'm wrong about that.
    I can kind of see what he is saying.

    If you die while fighting off an invading country, I'd say you're a hero. If you die in the line of duty while fighting a war that wasn't even declared and no one even really know what we're doing there - are you a hero? Or just a good soldier who's government sent you into the wrong place? I don't know and I think that's what this guy was saying. To call a dead person a hero means they died for something selfless and noble, right? Are our troops getting killed in a war defending the constitution? And if not, does that make them heroes? Have their deaths impacted me living in a free country? More troops die every week - but back at home our freedoms are disappearing.

    I'm not saying dead troops aren't heroes, I AM saying that I think I understand what Chris Hayes said.

    If they are heroes for dying on that battlefield, then they must be fighting a worthy cause. (if it's not a worthy cause then they might not be heroes, but if you don't agree that everyone who dies in the desert is fighting a worthy cause then you're an unpatriotic unamerican jerk)

    FWIW I am active duty, I don't understand why we are in the desert, and if I die fighting a war that has nothing to do with protecting the constitution I do not expect to be remembered as a hero.

    Last edited by Schlitz; 05-28-2012 at 06:08 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I'm not saying dead troops aren't heroes, I AM saying that I think I understand what Chris Hayes said.

    ...

    FWIW I am active duty, I don't understand why we are in the desert, and if I die fighting a war that has nothing to do with protecting the constitution I do not expect to be remembered as a hero.
    Ditto!

    Except, I'm not active duty. I'm a veteran, the son of a veteran, and father/father-in-law/uncle/friend to active duty soldiers. I agree with you, and I understand Hayes' message.

    On a weekend filled with unthinking jingoism, I appreciate someone questioning what we're doing starting wars on the other side of the globe.

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    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I can kind of see what he is saying.

    If you die while fighting off an invading country, I'd say you're a hero. If you die in the line of duty while fighting a war that wasn't even declared and no one even really know what we're doing there - are you a hero? Or just a good soldier who's government sent you into the wrong place? I don't know and I think that's what this guy was saying. To call a dead person a hero means they died for something selfless and noble, right? Are our troops getting killed in a war defending the constitution? And if not, does that make them heroes? Have their deaths impacted me living in a free country? More troops die every week - but back at home our freedoms are disappearing.

    I'm not saying dead troops aren't heroes, I AM saying that I think I understand what Chris Hayes said.

    If they are heroes for dying on that battlefield, then they must be fighting a worthy cause. (if it's not a worthy cause then they might not be heroes, but if you don't agree that everyone who dies in the desert is fighting a worthy cause then you're an unpatriotic unamerican jerk)

    FWIW I am active duty, I don't understand why we are in the desert, and if I die fighting a war that has nothing to do with protecting the constitution I do not expect to be remembered as a hero.

    Given my general disgust for everything PMSNBS stands for, and the fact that I hold everyone who works for that agitprop institution beneath contempt this doesn't suprise me. After reading your post I have to agree with you though. Not everyone who serves and dies doing so are "heros". Heros are people who go above and beyond the ordinary call of duty, without any concern for their own lives. Sure, you can sign up for military duty knowing full well you're going to war. That alone is a noble thing, but it doesn't make you a hero. If you get killed by indirect fire on the way to Burger King you're not displaying heroics. If you run out to drag a fallen soldier while recieving direct fire you certainly are.

    I just want to know where Chris Hayes makes that distinction. Never mind. I'm sure the last war hero in Chris Hayes' narrow mind is Jane Fonda.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    IMHO, anyone who has served in combat is a hero. no mater what
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    IMHO, anyone who has served in combat is a hero. no mater what
    the nazis?


    edit: QUESTION:

    if you join the military primarily for receiving cushy benefits, college education, etc, and you die fighting a war that has nothing to do with defending the U.S.'s freedom - are you a hero?

    If going to war no matter what the cause is, just for money and benefits makes you a hero, why don't we honor black water and other kill-for-kash contractors today?
    Last edited by Schlitz; 05-28-2012 at 10:13 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    I can understand what the guy on MSNBC was trying to say, and in my opinion, he knew he was treading on thin ice by voicing that opinion, and was very carefully trying to choose the right words, and I think he did a fine job. I would have to agree with the point he made as well as schlitz. I can say this from the perspective of a US army infantryman with a tour in Iraq...looking back on it I am disappointed in what we did there, I'm not proud of it, and I would never expect to be regarded as a hero. As a matter of fact, whenever people thank me for my service, I feel somewhat ashamed...if Russians were rolling through my neighborhood in uparmored trucks, I'd be shooting at them and detonating IED's as well.

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    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    I have always said that the word "Hero" gets tossed around kind of easy nowadays. However, I think if you take an oath when joining the military, knowing you could be sent somewhere that could put your life in jeopardy, and you are, and you go, and you die, then yes, I definitely think you are a hero. No matter what you are doing at the time. There is something different about taking that oath. While some may go in for a career choice or whatever, they are still agreeing to go and do what they are told to do because somebody gave the order to. Regardless of where, or the reason we are there. It is not their duty to question the task, only to do it. Not everybody is willing to do that. Your life is the ultimate price to pay.
    watch your top knot !

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    I'm torn on this. As a military member I flat out don't think dying while in the military or in the line of fire instantly makes you a hero. Personally I joined out of a sense of duty to defend my country (if I don't, who will?) and as such I don't feel that dying on the battlefield instantly makes me or anyone else a hero as to me if I were to die I would simply be doing my job. As such I don't agree with the death=hero bit personally.

    But all that being said I flat out don't agree with what Chris Hayes comes across as saying. To me he is saying death=hero=justification for war. How he gets that calling people heroes magically means that it is viewed as a justification for war (oh this war is alright since we get heroes out of it) just doesn't make any sense to me. And so then that would mean that he doesn't want to call people heroes more out of protest for the war (since calling them heroes justifies the war) and has nothing to do with the actions of the individual.

    As for the comments about should they be heroes for dying in a place that we shouldn't be in, again being a "hero" is about the actions of the individual. So I do feel that there can be heroes from an "unjust" war or from a place we shouldn't be.

    EDIT: Oh and note that these are 100% my personal views and if someone does think that death=hero (in a warzone) who am I to tell them that their definition of a hero is wrong? This is just my take on this subject and the word hero.
    Last edited by Aknazer; 05-29-2012 at 12:22 AM.

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    Regular Member DangerClose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I can kind of see what he is saying.

    If you die while fighting off an invading country, I'd say you're a hero. If you die in the line of duty while fighting a war that wasn't even declared and no one even really know what we're doing there - are you a hero? Or just a good soldier who's government sent you into the wrong place? I don't know and I think that's what this guy was saying.
    Reminds me of a cool clip from a cool movie.


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Chris who? Never heard of him until this little brouhaha.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Chris who? Never heard of him until this little brouhaha.
    Me either, but then I never watch that pos network.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    A hero , to me, is someone who goes above and beyond what is expected of them, under fire, to protect their comrades. A soldier who dies in a car accident in Germany doesn't meet that definition.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    A soldier who dies in a car accident in Germany doesn't meet that definition.
    That's BS.

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    Audie Murphy was a hero. A traffic accident victim is just not in the same league. Dying doesn't make someone a hero.You can die from doing something heroic and you can die from doing something stupid.
    Last edited by beebobby; 05-31-2012 at 03:18 PM.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Audie Murphy was a hero. A traffic accident victim is just not in the same league. Dying doesn't make someone a hero.You can die from doing something heroic and you can die from doing something stupid.
    Tell that garage to the kid or spouse of one who has died overseas, or inconus while wearing the uniform of the United States Military. You’d fit right in at MSNBC.

    Signing on and serving honorably is above and beyond the average Joe! They're all Hero's to someone, in life and death.
    Last edited by jbone; 05-31-2012 at 05:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    That's BS.
    No it isn't. A hero is defined by the person using the word. Myself and many others who serve (or have served) do not view ourselves as heroes even though plenty of people do view us as heroes for simply serving. So while a servicemember who dies in a car wreck is a hero to someone, there are many of us who don't see it that way.

    Hell I personally knew a kid who died when a car hit his motorcycle. He hadn't been in for even two years and had never deployed. It was a tragic loss of life, but I don't view him and his death as hero. To me it takes more than simply serving to be a hero and I hold myself to this same standard.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    No it isn't. A hero is defined by the person using the word. Myself and many others who serve (or have served) do not view ourselves as heroes even though plenty of people do view us as heroes for simply serving. So while a servicemember who dies in a car wreck is a hero to someone, there are many of us who don't see it that way.

    Hell I personally knew a kid who died when a car hit his motorcycle. He hadn't been in for even two years and had never deployed. It was a tragic loss of life, but I don't view him and his death as hero. To me it takes more than simply serving to be a hero and I hold myself to this same standard.
    Read #17

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    Congressional Medal of Honor Recipients

    1st, Here's what The Medal of Honor is about, ;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor#Recipients

    2nd, Here's a list of the Recipients of The Medal of Honor,,,,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor_recipients

    Read & really think about it.,, Defines ***HERO*** without a doubt.

    John 15:13 : Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
    Last edited by scott58dh; 05-31-2012 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbone View Post
    Read #17
    Just because we have different definitions of what a hero is doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other is wrong. I hold my heroes to a higher standard than you, so what? And if I were to die I would hope that my wife and kids were to view me as a hero for more reasons than "just" because I served and I died while serving. Things like because I was a good husband/father, I was an honorable man, etc.

    Also I already stated the issue with MSNBC and how they don't even take the actions of the individuals into consideration. It is solely about trying to use it as a political statement about the war and that is flat out wrong. So no, I wouldn't fit in over there like you seem to suggest.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    1st, Here's what The Medal of Honor is about, ;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor#Recipients

    2nd, Here's a list of the Recipients of The Medal of Honor,,,,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor_recipients

    Read & really think about it.,, Defines ***HERO*** without a doubt.
    Ehhh... Yes and no. By the way, I worked for a real, live CMO-awarded hero for a time: Reggie Myers. We just called him "The Colonel." He, his son, and his daughter-in-law ran Annandale Marine and Sports, in Virginia. I worked there my first summer out of high school. He was a stickler for detail, but what do you expect? He was a Marine, and a full-bird Colonel, to boot! Still, he was a fairly down-to-earth guy. Very hospitable. Invited us all out to his place on Gunston Cove over the 4th.

    His actions were certainly heroic, no doubt about that. However, many people are heroic without ever being recognized, both in the military and in civilian society. In my mind, what makes someone heroic is their going above and beyond what the vast majority of people would do in a given situation, particularly if in so doing they save lives at the extreme, if not certain risk to their own. That's very close to the requirements for a Congressional Medal of Honor.

    John 15:13 : Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
    Aye...
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Just because we have different definitions of what a hero is doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other is wrong. I hold my heroes to a higher standard than you, so what? And if I were to die I would hope that my wife and kids were to view me as a hero for more reasons than "just" because I served and I died while serving. Things like because I was a good husband/father, I was an honorable man, etc.

    Also I already stated the issue with MSNBC and how they don't even take the actions of the individuals into consideration. It is solely about trying to use it as a political statement about the war and that is flat out wrong. So no, I wouldn't fit in over there like you seem to suggest.
    I completely understand what you’re saying. I never considered myself one at any point of my 24 years in. But others did, and I respect their wish to refer to others who've served in war, and peace, and who lived and died, as heroes. Embarrassing yes, but I felt no reason to rain on their parade.

    MSNBC speaks to all VETS alive and dead with zero respect, that’s MSNBC. Like “OC for ME” said “Chris Who” I've also never heard of that sissy looking guy. Good thing the America haters on MSNBC have a very small following.


    I recall coming home from all my deployments, and wife and child having a handmade banner strung across the garage, in it mentioning their hero. Wasn’t going to have them take it down, and break their hearts. Nope, I endure the embarrassment for a few days. But really they fell under one of my definitions of hero, they put up with my 24 years of being gone more than being home, the things they endured in my absence is unbelievable. There are literally hundreds of definitions of terrorist, I’m sure it’s safe, and ok, to have more than one on the word hero.


    Another poster failed to show this in their Wikipedia reference:

    Coined in English 1387, the word hero comes from the Greek "ρως" (heroes), "hero, warrior",[2] literally "protector" or "defender"[3] the postulated original forms of these words being *ρϝως, hērwōs, and *ρFα, Hērwā, respectively. It is also thought[citation needed] to be a cognate of the Latin verb servo (original meaning: to preserve whole) and of the Avestan verb haurvaiti (to keep vigil over), although the original Proto-Indoeuropean root is unclear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero

    You said it yourself, “willing to defend”

    The later part of my career you couldn’t go a day without senior leadership up to the CNO referring to members of the Navy as “War Fighters, or Warriors” maybe the usage of the word is changing to reflect those “willing to defend”, I have no idea, but certainly not a bad thing to recognize the sacrifice of those who live! Yep, uncomfortable and embarrassing in public and on the same token nice to see the respect. Those types on MSNBC are trying to redefine, it’s all part of their tie-in with Obama.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott58dh View Post
    [snippers]

    John 15:13 : Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
    Such as President Obama?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Such as President Obama?
    I guess I must be stupid, I don't understand your post. Are you saying O is laying down his life?

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