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MSNBC Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-f...-calling-fallen-military-heroes#ixzz1w6mBDLvo
By Mark Finkelstein said:
Effete: affected, overrefined, and ineffectual; see "Chris Hayes." OK, I appended the name of the MSNBC host to the dictionary definition. But if ever you wanted to see the human embodiment of the adjective in action, have a look at the video from his MSNBC show this morning of the too-refined-by-half Hayes explaining why he is "uncomfortable" in calling America's fallen military members "heroes."

Hayes is worried that doing so is "rhetorically proximate" to justifications for more war. Oh, the rhetorical proximity!
 

scott58dh

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MSNBC Credibility,,,LOL !

To Herr Koch, I appreciate that you are doing a service to keep us on this forum informed. :D

My .02 worth,,, ain't much, but.....

MSNBC, logical translation = Mentally Suspect Nonsensical Brainwashed Commies

Since when should anyone with the least bit of reasoning care at all what MSM (Especially MSNBC) has to report about anything :question:

Chris Hayes is the Associate Counsel for President Barack Obama & Hayes's brother Luke is a Democratic political operative.
On November 5, 2010, MSNBC announced that Hayes would be filling in for Keith Olbermann during Olbermann's suspension; however, the network later backtracked after finding out that Hayes had also made political contributions - the issue over which Olbermann was being suspended.

Any other "support" from the Obama crowd should be considered a treasonous act,,,,, can you say... *** Impeach*** :exclaim: or at least the official Loser on Nov.7 2012 !!! :lol:

PEACE & RKBA 4EVER ! :cool:
 
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RetiredOC

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But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

I can kind of see what he is saying.

If you die while fighting off an invading country, I'd say you're a hero. If you die in the line of duty while fighting a war that wasn't even declared and no one even really know what we're doing there - are you a hero? Or just a good soldier who's government sent you into the wrong place? I don't know and I think that's what this guy was saying. To call a dead person a hero means they died for something selfless and noble, right? Are our troops getting killed in a war defending the constitution? And if not, does that make them heroes? Have their deaths impacted me living in a free country? More troops die every week - but back at home our freedoms are disappearing.

I'm not saying dead troops aren't heroes, I AM saying that I think I understand what Chris Hayes said.

If they are heroes for dying on that battlefield, then they must be fighting a worthy cause. (if it's not a worthy cause then they might not be heroes, but if you don't agree that everyone who dies in the desert is fighting a worthy cause then you're an unpatriotic unamerican jerk)

FWIW I am active duty, I don't understand why we are in the desert, and if I die fighting a war that has nothing to do with protecting the constitution I do not expect to be remembered as a hero.

constitution_big_fire.jpg
 
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KBCraig

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I'm not saying dead troops aren't heroes, I AM saying that I think I understand what Chris Hayes said.

...

FWIW I am active duty, I don't understand why we are in the desert, and if I die fighting a war that has nothing to do with protecting the constitution I do not expect to be remembered as a hero.

Ditto!

Except, I'm not active duty. I'm a veteran, the son of a veteran, and father/father-in-law/uncle/friend to active duty soldiers. I agree with you, and I understand Hayes' message.

On a weekend filled with unthinking jingoism, I appreciate someone questioning what we're doing starting wars on the other side of the globe.
 

PrayingForWar

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I can kind of see what he is saying.

If you die while fighting off an invading country, I'd say you're a hero. If you die in the line of duty while fighting a war that wasn't even declared and no one even really know what we're doing there - are you a hero? Or just a good soldier who's government sent you into the wrong place? I don't know and I think that's what this guy was saying. To call a dead person a hero means they died for something selfless and noble, right? Are our troops getting killed in a war defending the constitution? And if not, does that make them heroes? Have their deaths impacted me living in a free country? More troops die every week - but back at home our freedoms are disappearing.

I'm not saying dead troops aren't heroes, I AM saying that I think I understand what Chris Hayes said.

If they are heroes for dying on that battlefield, then they must be fighting a worthy cause. (if it's not a worthy cause then they might not be heroes, but if you don't agree that everyone who dies in the desert is fighting a worthy cause then you're an unpatriotic unamerican jerk)

FWIW I am active duty, I don't understand why we are in the desert, and if I die fighting a war that has nothing to do with protecting the constitution I do not expect to be remembered as a hero.

constitution_big_fire.jpg

Given my general disgust for everything PMSNBS stands for, and the fact that I hold everyone who works for that agitprop institution beneath contempt this doesn't suprise me. After reading your post I have to agree with you though. Not everyone who serves and dies doing so are "heros". Heros are people who go above and beyond the ordinary call of duty, without any concern for their own lives. Sure, you can sign up for military duty knowing full well you're going to war. That alone is a noble thing, but it doesn't make you a hero. If you get killed by indirect fire on the way to Burger King you're not displaying heroics. If you run out to drag a fallen soldier while recieving direct fire you certainly are.

I just want to know where Chris Hayes makes that distinction. Never mind. I'm sure the last war hero in Chris Hayes' narrow mind is Jane Fonda.
 

RetiredOC

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IMHO, anyone who has served in combat is a hero. no mater what

the nazis?


edit: QUESTION:

if you join the military primarily for receiving cushy benefits, college education, etc, and you die fighting a war that has nothing to do with defending the U.S.'s freedom - are you a hero?

If going to war no matter what the cause is, just for money and benefits makes you a hero, why don't we honor black water and other kill-for-kash contractors today?
 
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shastadude17

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I can understand what the guy on MSNBC was trying to say, and in my opinion, he knew he was treading on thin ice by voicing that opinion, and was very carefully trying to choose the right words, and I think he did a fine job. I would have to agree with the point he made as well as schlitz. I can say this from the perspective of a US army infantryman with a tour in Iraq...looking back on it I am disappointed in what we did there, I'm not proud of it, and I would never expect to be regarded as a hero. As a matter of fact, whenever people thank me for my service, I feel somewhat ashamed...if Russians were rolling through my neighborhood in uparmored trucks, I'd be shooting at them and detonating IED's as well.
 

hjmoosejaw

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I have always said that the word "Hero" gets tossed around kind of easy nowadays. However, I think if you take an oath when joining the military, knowing you could be sent somewhere that could put your life in jeopardy, and you are, and you go, and you die, then yes, I definitely think you are a hero. No matter what you are doing at the time. There is something different about taking that oath. While some may go in for a career choice or whatever, they are still agreeing to go and do what they are told to do because somebody gave the order to. Regardless of where, or the reason we are there. It is not their duty to question the task, only to do it. Not everybody is willing to do that. Your life is the ultimate price to pay.
 

Aknazer

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I'm torn on this. As a military member I flat out don't think dying while in the military or in the line of fire instantly makes you a hero. Personally I joined out of a sense of duty to defend my country (if I don't, who will?) and as such I don't feel that dying on the battlefield instantly makes me or anyone else a hero as to me if I were to die I would simply be doing my job. As such I don't agree with the death=hero bit personally.

But all that being said I flat out don't agree with what Chris Hayes comes across as saying. To me he is saying death=hero=justification for war. How he gets that calling people heroes magically means that it is viewed as a justification for war (oh this war is alright since we get heroes out of it) just doesn't make any sense to me. And so then that would mean that he doesn't want to call people heroes more out of protest for the war (since calling them heroes justifies the war) and has nothing to do with the actions of the individual.

As for the comments about should they be heroes for dying in a place that we shouldn't be in, again being a "hero" is about the actions of the individual. So I do feel that there can be heroes from an "unjust" war or from a place we shouldn't be.

EDIT: Oh and note that these are 100% my personal views and if someone does think that death=hero (in a warzone) who am I to tell them that their definition of a hero is wrong? This is just my take on this subject and the word hero.
 
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DangerClose

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I can kind of see what he is saying.

If you die while fighting off an invading country, I'd say you're a hero. If you die in the line of duty while fighting a war that wasn't even declared and no one even really know what we're doing there - are you a hero? Or just a good soldier who's government sent you into the wrong place? I don't know and I think that's what this guy was saying.
Reminds me of a cool clip from a cool movie.

[video=youtube;ONK3kLT0258]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONK3kLT0258[/video]
 

beebobby

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A hero , to me, is someone who goes above and beyond what is expected of them, under fire, to protect their comrades. A soldier who dies in a car accident in Germany doesn't meet that definition.
 

beebobby

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Audie Murphy was a hero. A traffic accident victim is just not in the same league. Dying doesn't make someone a hero.You can die from doing something heroic and you can die from doing something stupid.
 
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jbone

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Audie Murphy was a hero. A traffic accident victim is just not in the same league. Dying doesn't make someone a hero.You can die from doing something heroic and you can die from doing something stupid.

Tell that garage to the kid or spouse of one who has died overseas, or inconus while wearing the uniform of the United States Military. You’d fit right in at MSNBC.

Signing on and serving honorably is above and beyond the average Joe! They're all Hero's to someone, in life and death.
 
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Aknazer

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That's BS.

No it isn't. A hero is defined by the person using the word. Myself and many others who serve (or have served) do not view ourselves as heroes even though plenty of people do view us as heroes for simply serving. So while a servicemember who dies in a car wreck is a hero to someone, there are many of us who don't see it that way.

Hell I personally knew a kid who died when a car hit his motorcycle. He hadn't been in for even two years and had never deployed. It was a tragic loss of life, but I don't view him and his death as hero. To me it takes more than simply serving to be a hero and I hold myself to this same standard.
 

jbone

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No it isn't. A hero is defined by the person using the word. Myself and many others who serve (or have served) do not view ourselves as heroes even though plenty of people do view us as heroes for simply serving. So while a servicemember who dies in a car wreck is a hero to someone, there are many of us who don't see it that way.

Hell I personally knew a kid who died when a car hit his motorcycle. He hadn't been in for even two years and had never deployed. It was a tragic loss of life, but I don't view him and his death as hero. To me it takes more than simply serving to be a hero and I hold myself to this same standard.

Read #17
 

scott58dh

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