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MSNBC Chris Hayes: I'm 'Uncomfortable' Calling Fallen Military 'Heroes'

Aknazer

Regular Member
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Mar 6, 2011
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California

Just because we have different definitions of what a hero is doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other is wrong. I hold my heroes to a higher standard than you, so what? And if I were to die I would hope that my wife and kids were to view me as a hero for more reasons than "just" because I served and I died while serving. Things like because I was a good husband/father, I was an honorable man, etc.

Also I already stated the issue with MSNBC and how they don't even take the actions of the individuals into consideration. It is solely about trying to use it as a political statement about the war and that is flat out wrong. So no, I wouldn't fit in over there like you seem to suggest.
 

since9

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1st, Here's what The Medal of Honor is about, :arrow:;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor#Recipients

2nd, Here's a list of the Recipients of The Medal of Honor,,,:arrow:,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor_recipients

Read & really think about it.,, Defines ***HERO*** without a doubt.

Ehhh... Yes and no. By the way, I worked for a real, live CMO-awarded hero for a time: Reggie Myers. We just called him "The Colonel." He, his son, and his daughter-in-law ran Annandale Marine and Sports, in Virginia. I worked there my first summer out of high school. He was a stickler for detail, but what do you expect? He was a Marine, and a full-bird Colonel, to boot! Still, he was a fairly down-to-earth guy. Very hospitable. Invited us all out to his place on Gunston Cove over the 4th.

His actions were certainly heroic, no doubt about that. However, many people are heroic without ever being recognized, both in the military and in civilian society. In my mind, what makes someone heroic is their going above and beyond what the vast majority of people would do in a given situation, particularly if in so doing they save lives at the extreme, if not certain risk to their own. That's very close to the requirements for a Congressional Medal of Honor.

John 15:13 : Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

Aye... :D
 

jbone

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Just because we have different definitions of what a hero is doesn't mean that one of us is right and the other is wrong. I hold my heroes to a higher standard than you, so what? And if I were to die I would hope that my wife and kids were to view me as a hero for more reasons than "just" because I served and I died while serving. Things like because I was a good husband/father, I was an honorable man, etc.

Also I already stated the issue with MSNBC and how they don't even take the actions of the individuals into consideration. It is solely about trying to use it as a political statement about the war and that is flat out wrong. So no, I wouldn't fit in over there like you seem to suggest.

I completely understand what you’re saying. I never considered myself one at any point of my 24 years in. But others did, and I respect their wish to refer to others who've served in war, and peace, and who lived and died, as heroes. Embarrassing yes, but I felt no reason to rain on their parade.

MSNBC speaks to all VETS alive and dead with zero respect, that’s MSNBC. Like “OC for ME” said “Chris Who” I've also never heard of that sissy looking guy. Good thing the America haters on MSNBC have a very small following.


I recall coming home from all my deployments, and wife and child having a handmade banner strung across the garage, in it mentioning their hero. Wasn’t going to have them take it down, and break their hearts. Nope, I endure the embarrassment for a few days. But really they fell under one of my definitions of hero, they put up with my 24 years of being gone more than being home, the things they endured in my absence is unbelievable. There are literally hundreds of definitions of terrorist, I’m sure it’s safe, and ok, to have more than one on the word hero.


Another poster failed to show this in their Wikipedia reference:

Coined in English 1387, the word hero comes from the Greek "ρως" (heroes), "hero, warrior",[SUP][2][/SUP] literally "protector" or "defender"[SUP][3][/SUP] the postulated original forms of these words being *ρϝως, hērwōs, and *ρFα, Hērwā, respectively. It is also thought[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] to be a cognate of the Latin verb servo (original meaning: to preserve whole) and of the Avestan verb haurvaiti (to keep vigil over), although the original Proto-Indoeuropean root is unclear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero

You said it yourself, “willing to defend”

The later part of my career you couldn’t go a day without senior leadership up to the CNO referring to members of the Navy as “War Fighters, or Warriors” maybe the usage of the word is changing to reflect those “willing to defend”, I have no idea, but certainly not a bad thing to recognize the sacrifice of those who live! Yep, uncomfortable and embarrassing in public and on the same token nice to see the respect. Those types on MSNBC are trying to redefine, it’s all part of their tie-in with Obama.
 

gunns

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Oct 27, 2011
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Minnesota
Hero does get tossed around a lot. I too served, so did three of four of my brothers during Vietnam (volunteered not drafted) , my father and his brothers during WW2. Though I never saw combat or served in Vietnam proper, I don't go around claiming to be a Vietnam vet and being a hero. As many do.

Out of the 9 Million plus who served during Vietnam over 2.7 million were actually in Vietnam. In Minnesota, we have three times as many Vietnam veteran license plates on cars and trucks then those that actually served in Vietnam. Thus those with license plates stating they are Vietnam veterans are using them as bragging rights. I know many I would call Vietnam veterans, none of them have the Veteran license plates.

So is everyone who dies in the military in a foreign country a hero? If it means he or she died protecting me or mine, Yes he or she is a hero. If you asked me this about Iraq or Afghanistan years ago I would have said yes, if you ask me about it today, I would say that I am not sure. I think every time an American dies over there its a shame and I have a tremendous amount of sorrow and pity for he or she and their family but we are way past making this about doing something about the greater good. Its now about politics and money, time to get the hell out.
 

jbone

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Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,230
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WA
Hero does get tossed around a lot. I too served, so did three of four of my brothers during Vietnam (volunteered not drafted) , my father and his brothers during WW2. Though I never saw combat or served in Vietnam proper, I don't go around claiming to be a Vietnam vet and being a hero. As many do.

Out of the 9 Million plus who served during Vietnam over 2.7 million were actually in Vietnam. In Minnesota, we have three times as many Vietnam veteran license plates on cars and trucks then those that actually served in Vietnam. Thus those with license plates stating they are Vietnam veterans are using them as bragging rights. I know many I would call Vietnam veterans, none of them have the Veteran license plates.

So is everyone who dies in the military in a foreign country a hero? If it means he or she died protecting me or mine, Yes he or she is a hero. If you asked me this about Iraq or Afghanistan years ago I would have said yes, if you ask me about it today, I would say that I am not sure. I think every time an American dies over there its a shame and I have a tremendous amount of sorrow and pity for he or she and their family but we are way past making this about doing something about the greater good. Its now about politics and money, time to get the hell out.

Wow!

(f) Vietnam era. The period beginning on February 28, 1961, and ending on May 7, 1975, inclusive, in the case of a veteran who served in the Republic of Vietnam during that period. The period beginning on August 5, 1964, and ending on May 7, 1975, inclusive, in all other cases. (Authority: 38 U.S.C. 101(29))
http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/pension/wartime.htm

The applicant's dates of service must be between July 1, 1961, through June 30, 1978.
http://www.mdva.state.mn.us/extras/VeteranMilitaryPlates.htm

Get seen at the VA, no, but hell you get the plate; state money maker for sure! That's a **** load of VET plates in that state.
 

scott58dh

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Oct 16, 2011
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why?
Ehhh... Yes and no.[/B] By the way, I worked for a real, live CMO-awarded hero for a time: Reggie Myers. We just called him "The Colonel." He, his son, and his daughter-in-law ran Annandale Marine and Sports, in Virginia. I worked there my first summer out of high school. He was a stickler for detail, but what do you expect? He was a Marine, and a full-bird Colonel, to boot! Still, he was a fairly down-to-earth guy. Very hospitable. Invited us all out to his place on Gunston Cove over the 4th.

His actions were certainly heroic, no doubt about that. However, many people are heroic without ever being recognized, both in the military and in civilian society. In my mind, what makes someone heroic is their going above and beyond what the vast majority of people would do in a given situation, particularly if in so doing they save lives at the extreme, if not certain risk to their own. That's very close to the requirements for a Congressional Medal of Honor.



Aye... :D


Amen & Amen !

I Always make it a Priority that whenever I see a Veteran, If I'm able to greet them, I Specifically Thank them for their Service to Our Country.

Up here in ME., we have a local War Memorial/Museum and the Owner has Vet hats for all of the conflicts which we've been involved in, so a lot of these Vets are easily recognized in a restaurant, place of gathering.

As a rule, they are VERY Humble and Appreciative of the Respect and Admiration which I show to them,, Especially the 'Nam Vets,, often times They tear up, quite an overpowering experience to witness.

P.S. If you don't mind & care to take the time, would you please elaborate on the Y/N reply. Thanx .

Peace & RKBA 4ever ! :cool:
 
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scott58dh

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why?
Such as President Obama?

:shocker:...Very Funny...:banghead:

I'm not gonna bite onto that Big Fat Worm & I ain't gonna let you get me chaffin' at the bit 'bout such an utterly non-sensicle remark.

If the Pres. was in need of some helping friendly assistance, Yes I would stop & be the good Samaritan,,

But , does That mean I'll Vote for Him to ***Help*** him out of his predicament which he created,,,,, Nope !

I'll pray for him & his family for guidance and safety, but I would be going against my better judgement to continue to support the disgrace which he has brought upon this GREAT Nation of ours.

PEACE & RKBA 4EVER !!! :cool:
 

Gunslinger

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Free, Colorado, USA
Hero does get tossed around a lot. I too served, so did three of four of my brothers during Vietnam (volunteered not drafted) , my father and his brothers during WW2. Though I never saw combat or served in Vietnam proper, I don't go around claiming to be a Vietnam vet and being a hero. As many do.

Out of the 9 Million plus who served during Vietnam over 2.7 million were actually in Vietnam. In Minnesota, we have three times as many Vietnam veteran license plates on cars and trucks then those that actually served in Vietnam. Thus those with license plates stating they are Vietnam veterans are using them as bragging rights. I know many I would call Vietnam veterans, none of them have the Veteran license plates....

QUOTE]
Those who served during the era are rightfully called 'Vietnam era' vets. That they didn't serve in country--or above in my case, was the luck of the draw. They took their chances. Those of us who served in SEA are Vietnam Vets. You could say we got the short straw, I suppose. Not only don't I regret it, I'm proud of my service. Many of us received decorations for valor. Were we heroes? Perhaps and perhaps not. I like to think I did my job just a bit better than what was required. The guy who got the AFC or MoH is another story. He is a hero with no discussion. Marching in parades with newly bought jungle fatigues or boony hats and/or having a VNV license plate is a whole other issue. So is stolen valor--and the law that was up before the SC. Of the 2.7 million who were in SEA, a very small minority saw combat. But that is true of all of our wars. I guess if someone whose opinion you respect says you're a hero, you are. Maybe that is the best definition.
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
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Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
I guess the term "hero" is watered down now-a-days because we live in the "EVERYONE IS A WINNER" society.

Everyone get's a trophy so nobody feels bad about not being as good as the other guy.
 

davidmcbeth

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Hero does get tossed around a lot. I too served, so did three of four of my brothers during Vietnam (volunteered not drafted) , my father and his brothers during WW2. Though I never saw combat or served in Vietnam proper, I don't go around claiming to be a Vietnam vet and being a hero. As many do.
.

Most combat vets from Vietnam don't want to remember -- as well as most Korean war vets I have spoken to. War's over, war sucks is their mantra. They don't want to be associated with the conflicts anymore.
 

Gunslinger

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Most combat vets from Vietnam don't want to remember -- as well as most Korean war vets I have spoken to. War's over, war sucks is their mantra. They don't want to be associated with the conflicts anymore.

I don't agree. Most VN vets remember those with whom they fought. The best quote from that war is still "We fought for our country. We fought for freedom. In the end, we fought for each other." You don't forget that.
 

slowfiveoh

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Richmond, VA
Thus those with license plates stating they are Vietnam veterans are using them as bragging rights. I know many I would call Vietnam veterans, none of them have the Veteran license plates.

What an enormous giant bumpy bag of fallacy.

"Vet" does not mean "Hero". Therefore, having a "Vet" license plate does not mean one is proclaiming to be a hero, and/or bragging.

I have considered getting the vet plate for one of my vehicles out here but not for any sort of bragging rights. Some states have reduced fees for veterans.

Sometimes people just do those things not to express a need for outward affirmation of their service but for simple projection of their pride. No "hero worship" or "bragging" implied.
 
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