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What is the basis for open cary?

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
Every time I mention HOW I PERSONALLY CHOOSE to present myself when openly carrying -

some folks interpret my comments as suggesting an obligatory pattern for universal conformity.

I wear what I wear (eye glasses, golf shirts, dockers, and loafers) because that is MY CHOICE - not a prescription for others. My hair is buzzed because I have a BALD SPOT on top of my head - again = MY CHOSEN hair style.

The point I wished to convey by citing my PERSONAL example was that whatever "BRAND" of OC one CHOOSES to present for public consumption - it would be WISE strategy to consider "market appeal" in selecting a PACKAGE design. Mine works well FOR ME.

If people are inclined to assume that I am some sort of LE - due to their software "programming" - so be it. I want to be perceived positively by law-abiding folks - and uncomfortably by the criminally inclined. I have yet to be confronted , and asked to leave any business.

Is that not at least ONE of the primary aims of those of us who choose to OC ?
 
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XDM40

New member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
7
Location
Wisconsin
First time poster

First time poster, been lurking for a while now.

You are so correct attitude is everything. Being polite is also key. I am naturally a very polite person, please and thank you every chance I get. I have noticed that when I OC people generally get a nervous look on their face at first until they talk to me. I make eye contact when I talk to them, am very polite and answer any questions if they have any. Generally after a few seconds that nervous look is gone. My sister was one of those anti-gunners. Nothing against hunting just didn't like the idea of everyday citizens carrying weapons. She has recently changed her tune now that she has seen me carry. She understands that good people carry guns properly.

But I will respect the wishes of store owners. If I walk into a store and the manager/owner asks me to leave my gun in my car I will do that without complaint. I do believe that being a respectable, responsible gun carrier will get you much farther than those who try to push their agenda on others. That goes the same for the anti-gunners. If I am in a public non-posted place and my gun makes someone nervous they can simply walk away. Most I believe will. It is just those few who feel the need to start trouble that give the rest of them a bad name.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Every time I mention HOW I PERSONALLY CHOOSE to present myself when openly carrying -

some folks interpret my comments as suggesting an obligatory pattern for universal conformity.

I wear what I wear (eye glasses, golf shirts, dockers, and loafers) because that is MY CHOICE - not a prescription for others. My hair is buzzed because I have a BALD SPOT on top of my head - again = MY CHOSEN hair style.

The point I wished to convey by citing my PERSONAL example was that whatever "BRAND" of OC one CHOOSES to present for public consumption - it would be WISE strategy to consider "market appeal" in selecting a PACKAGE design. Mine works well FOR ME.

If people are inclined to assume that I am some sort of LE - due to their software "programming" - so be it. I want to be perceived positively by law-abiding folks - and uncomfortably by the criminally inclined. I have yet to be confronted , and asked to leave any business.

Is that not at least ONE of the primary aims of those of us who choose to OC ?

Of course it is your choice, but you do tie your dress to marketing OCing to the public. If you want to do that I don't think anybody has a problem with it, some just don't feel the need to do that. I do not OC to market or convince or any other reason than self defense, my constitutional right. I don't go out of my way to be a jerk either whether armed or not. I act and dress the same way whether armed or not.
 

XD4ME

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
25
Location
Maine
it would be WISE strategy to consider "market appeal" in selecting a PACKAGE design.

The best 'package" is individual honesty to ones self . Changing appearance so that others are comfortable is not honest to ones self . Regardless of looks , most people can tell a good person from a bad person simply by observing their actions and listening to what they say .

I have never been hassled , asked to leave, or made people "scared" by simply carrying . You would think I would have a problem since my "package" consists of worn jeans , T shirt , sleeves (thats full length arm tattoos), generally scruffy facial hair , etc etc . . But it's not how I dress that eases people , it's my attitude and demeanor .

I stand with LOGAN 5 - in my concerns regarding evidence of an attitude that some have that we simply "have this right be armed - and people better just get used to it."

NO - We had better prepare ourselves to SELL the concept to them- because THEY ARE THE BUYERS - who VOTE ! My brother-in-law is a firm believer in the 2A - but he also has concerns about JUST ANYBODY being allowed to walk around wearing a handgun- because "some people" would alarm him.
Mark my words - There WILL BE A BACKLASH - if proper respect is not shown for the very real concerns that many people have about the sight of a handgun in public. So we all need to proceed VERY cautiously.

We have a SELLING JOB to do.

It is not the persons fault that is exercising a right if someone gets "alarmed" because of looks . I am not sure I could trust someone that bases their opinion on a persons dress and appearance rather than their actions and demeanor. Thats rather shallow and shows poor judgement .

Anyway , continue "packaging" yourself if thats what you want to do . It's supposedly a free country . I on the other hand will be myself and continue to inform through actions and deeds .
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
So, what we can take from this thread is the same thing as every other thread where this discussion happens:

To each, their own.

There are just too many different laws x too many different people x too many different locations x too many different situations to have a one size fits all solution.

The simplest answer I've ever heard was the following two words:

Be safe!
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
--snip--
it's not how I dress that eases people , it's my attitude and demeanor............inform through actions and deeds .

--snip--

There are just too many different laws x too many different people x too many different locations x too many different situations to have a one size fits all solution.

Blue collar, white, collar, young or senior - act responsibly, be polite - ACTIONS do speak louder than words. Demeanor sends a message. These things can be constants, no matter who you are. Use them in a positive manner and reap the benefits.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I apologize. I am in Wisconsin and here we can CC in bars. While I do agree with you I can kind of see their point. By not allowing guns and alcohol together limits any mishaps by stupid people.

So you would no doubt support laws that make it illegal to drive to and from a bar.

This is FAR MORE dangerous, and PROVEN so, than mere possession of a firearm while drinking.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
Ohio just passed restaurant carry last year. You can be IN a place that serves alcohol, but you can't drink (any!)

As is typical, there are no rivers of blood pouring forth from taverns or restaurants where guns and alcohol are being mixed.

While I'm personally not against someone having a couple drinks at dinner while carrying, being armed while drunk is a definite concern.

I would hope that the level of responsibility of those that carry (at least those that I have met so far) prevents those people from inbibing to excess.
 

Dana Vennie

New member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
8
Location
Turtle Lake WI
So you would no doubt support laws that make it illegal to drive to and from a bar.

This is FAR MORE dangerous, and PROVEN so, than mere possession of a firearm while drinking.

I think the drinking and driving laws are way too lenient. As far as I am concerned if you drive drunk and kill someone you should get life in prison without parole. The way I see it getting in an accident while drunk driving is the same as walking up to someone and shooting them in the head. I have no time for that crap.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
I think the drinking and driving laws are way too lenient. As far as I am concerned if you drive drunk and kill someone you should get life in prison without parole. The way I see it getting in an accident while drunk driving is the same as walking up to someone and shooting them in the head. I have no time for that crap.

I agree with you. But you didn't address this: would you support laws that make it illegal to drive to and from a bar, even when not impaired under the law?
 
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ares338

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2012
Messages
11
Location
Texas
That really is a moot point. It doesn't matter what the basis is for open carry. If I own property and I don't want people on it, I don't care if they are carrying or not they are going to leave my property. I live in Texas so I can't open carry except on my private property (which I do). There are always people who think they don't have to follow rules but in my experience they are few and far between but for those few I carry concealed which is my right. Don't let those few macho gun slinger types ruin your opinion of people just exercising their 2nd Ammendment right.
 

Dana Vennie

New member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
8
Location
Turtle Lake WI
I agree with you. But you didn't address this: would you support laws that make it illegal to drive to and from a bar, even when not impaired under the law?

That type of law would be idiotic and I would not support it. Where are you going with this one? By that wording you couldn't drive to a bar, which means everyone would have to walk. In my neck of the woods that would put many bars out of business since they are miles outside of any town.

In Wisconsin you cannot drink and carry at the same time. That I agree with completely. You are simply asking for trouble by letting intoxicated people carry firearms.

Now do people drink and carry? I'm sure they do. Hell this is Wisconsin, beer is second nature to the greater population. But not me. If I know I am going to be drinking my gun is put away just like my keys.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
That type of law would be idiotic and I would not support it. Where are you going with this one? By that wording you couldn't drive to a bar, which means everyone would have to walk. In my neck of the woods that would put many bars out of business since they are miles outside of any town.

In Wisconsin you cannot drink and carry at the same time. That I agree with completely. You are simply asking for trouble by letting intoxicated people carry firearms. ...

So it is okay to OPERATE a potentially dangerous machine after drinking, as long as you did not pass the legal limit of impairment. I agree.

But it is somehow suddenly more dangerous to be in mere POSSESSION of a different potentially dangerous machine, regardless of your drinking? Where's the math on that? What about the steak knife IN YOUR HANDS during dinner with wine? If you were to use it for violence, it falls under the same deadly weapon threat level as a firearm. Is this a mere oversight, or is the "gun" a mythical game changer as usual?

Now, I note in this quote, you used the word "intoxicated." What is your definition of this? Because you are preaching about ANY amount of drinking making the difference.
 
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Dana Vennie

New member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
8
Location
Turtle Lake WI
So it is okay to OPERATE a potentially dangerous machine after drinking, as long as you did not pass the legal limit of impairment. I agree.

But it is somehow suddenly more dangerous to be in mere POSSESSION of a different potentially dangerous machine, regardless of your drinking? Where's the math on that? What about the steak knife IN YOUR HANDS during dinner with wine? If you were to use it for violence, it falls under the same deadly weapon threat level as a firearm. Is this a mere oversight, or is the "gun" a mythical game changer as usual?

Now, I note in this quote, you used the word "intoxicated." What is your definition of this? Because you are preaching about ANY amount of drinking making the difference.

I think if I follow your direction I agree with you. I have to look further into the laws around open carry and alcohol. I personally don't see a problem if someone has a beer or two with friends out at a BBQ while carrying.

I believe the thought process here when the stipulation was put in that you can only CC in a tavern and cannot drink while CCing was to try to curb any possibility of someone getting drunk and getting in a fight while carrying. In Wisconsin you cannot OC in a tavern.

I imagine that decision may have been tricky. While most people are responsible enough to only have a couple of drinks, some just don't know when to stop. I don't know how often you visit you local watering hole, but the ones I frequent always have a certain few people start out fine but after a very short period of time are hammered and picking fights. If any one of these people had a gun I am positive they would shoot someone. So they simply said no to it all. Stop the small population by limiting the overall. Kind of sucks but needed to be done.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
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Valhalla
I think if I follow your direction I agree with you. I have to look further into the laws around open carry and alcohol. I personally don't see a problem if someone has a beer or two with friends out at a BBQ while carrying.

I believe the thought process here when the stipulation was put in that you can only CC in a tavern and cannot drink while CCing was to try to curb any possibility of someone getting drunk and getting in a fight while carrying. In Wisconsin you cannot OC in a tavern.

I imagine that decision may have been tricky. While most people are responsible enough to only have a couple of drinks, some just don't know when to stop. I don't know how often you visit you local watering hole, but the ones I frequent always have a certain few people start out fine but after a very short period of time are hammered and picking fights. If any one of these people had a gun I am positive they would shoot someone. So they simply said no to it all. Stop the small population by limiting the overall. Kind of sucks but needed to be done.

So the thinking is that by passing a law, the BGs will be disarmed? How does that work?

VA law stipulates that if one CCs they cannot drink ----OK and how the enforcers are supposed to know isn't made clear.
On the other hand, OCing and having an adult beverage is perfectly legal.
Then there is that little thing about not being "under the influence - no BAL mentioned unlike with driving.

The real point is that there is no blood in the streets or running across the floor, no bar room brawls turning into shoot outs. LAC remain LAC. Criminals by definition are....well you get the point.

Such laws only impose restrictions on those that intend to be honest, responsible members of society.........and leave them at risk.

Personally, I do not indulge in public - my contribution to public perception. ymmv
 

Dana Vennie

New member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
8
Location
Turtle Lake WI
So the thinking is that by passing a law, the BGs will be disarmed? How does that work?

VA law stipulates that if one CCs they cannot drink ----OK and how the enforcers are supposed to know isn't made clear.
On the other hand, OCing and having an adult beverage is perfectly legal.
Then there is that little thing about not being "under the influence - no BAL mentioned unlike with driving.

The real point is that there is no blood in the streets or running across the floor, no bar room brawls turning into shoot outs. LAC remain LAC. Criminals by definition are....well you get the point.

Such laws only impose restrictions on those that intend to be honest, responsible members of society.........and leave them at risk.

Personally, I do not indulge in public - my contribution to public perception. ymmv


Guys I agree with you. The law here sounds the same as VA. No it does not disarm bad guys. They will still carry no matter what. Could you just imagine the fallout from the anti's if a CC holder sat in a bar, got hammer, got in an argument (lord knows I have gotten into my share) then shot that guy. Oh my god. Every liberal in the nation would have the best possible ammunition to try to stop our rights.

Any of you ever been to boot camp? There is a mentality there. One guy screws up every pays the price. Well this is kind of the same idea. The possibility of one guy screwing up ruins it for the rest of us.

Sure it is messed up that I can go down the city park with my family and friends while OCing and have some beers. Whats the difference right? Those beers hinder your judgment and perception. You may see something you think is a threat but really isn't. I could go on for hours. But in the end I agree with you. The law does put us at risk, but it is a law and to be responsible gun carriers we need to follow those laws.
 

virginian45colt

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
54
Location
Dallas, Oregon!
Guys I agree with you. The law here sounds the same as VA. No it does not disarm bad guys. They will still carry no matter what. Could you just imagine the fallout from the anti's if a CC holder sat in a bar, got hammer, got in an argument (lord knows I have gotten into my share) then shot that guy. Oh my god. Every liberal in the nation would have the best possible ammunition to try to stop our rights.

Any of you ever been to boot camp? There is a mentality there. One guy screws up every pays the price. Well this is kind of the same idea. The possibility of one guy screwing up ruins it for the rest of us.

Sure it is messed up that I can go down the city park with my family and friends while OCing and have some beers. Whats the difference right? Those beers hinder your judgment and perception. You may see something you think is a threat but really isn't. I could go on for hours. But in the end I agree with you. The law does put us at risk, but it is a law and to be responsible gun carriers we need to follow those laws.

It's my 21st Birthday today, I've chosen to not carry at all today just so I don't give anyone the wrong idea. Though I do have a loaded shotgun in the truck, hidden just incase worst case and I'm not drinking. :uhoh:
 

Shoobee

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
Location
CCCP (Calif)
That really is a moot point. It doesn't matter what the basis is for open carry. If I own property and I don't want people on it, I don't care if they are carrying or not they are going to leave my property. I live in Texas so I can't open carry except on my private property (which I do). There are always people who think they don't have to follow rules but in my experience they are few and far between but for those few I carry concealed which is my right. Don't let those few macho gun slinger types ruin your opinion of people just exercising their 2nd Ammendment right.

My viewpoint as well.

Harkening back to the days of the wild west, people were disbursed on ranches around towns, and the towns serviced the needs of the ranchers.

The towns had trading merchantiles, where the ranchers and farmers could sell or trade their surplusages, do their banking, buy tools and hardware, doctors, dentists, lawyers, and churches.

When you went into town, if it was a peaceful town, all you needed was a saddle gun, not much more. This was in case you got jumped by highwaymen, indians, or wild animals on the way back and forth. If it was a violent lawless town, then you wore a pair of sixguns, in addition to your saddle gun or shotgun. And the Wells Fargo stage coach always had an armed shotgunner with sixguns on it.

When you went to visit friends, on other ranches, it was like going to town. You brought a saddle gun, and you left it on your saddle, or if you brought it in with you, then you set it down by the door. There were all kinds of rules for common courtesy around open carry.

Today OC is mostly identified with hunting, backpacking, or responding to dangerous situations in your immediate neighborhood. CC is normally utilized for everything else.

Does it derive from the 2nd Amendment? Sure. Of course. Although there have always been rules of discretion associated with that right.
 
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Shoobee

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
Location
CCCP (Calif)
Ohio just passed restaurant carry last year. You can be IN a place that serves alcohol, but you can't drink (any!)

As is typical, there are no rivers of blood pouring forth from taverns or restaurants where guns and alcohol are being mixed.

While I'm personally not against someone having a couple drinks at dinner while carrying, being armed while drunk is a definite concern.

I would hope that the level of responsibility of those that carry (at least those that I have met so far) prevents those people from inbibing to excess.

Drunk would render someone fairly inept to quickly draw and accurately shoot, same as with drunk driving or drunk poker playing.

Same as in any brawl, where the most drunk guy is going to lose.

Ergo anyone packing who then gets drunk is a fool anyway.
 

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,884
Location
SC
My viewpoint as well.

Harkening back to the days of the wild west, people were disbursed on ranches around towns, and the towns serviced the needs of the ranchers.

The towns had trading merchantiles, where the ranchers and farmers could sell or trade their surplusages, do their banking, buy tools and hardware, doctors, dentists, lawyers, and churches.

When you went into town, if it was a peaceful town, all you needed was a saddle gun, not much more. This was in case you got jumped by highwaymen, indians, or wild animals on the way back and forth. If it was a violent lawless town, then you wore a pair of sixguns, in addition to your saddle gun or shotgun. And the Wells Fargo stage coach always had an armed shotgunner with sixguns on it.

When you went to visit friends, on other ranches, it was like going to town. You brought a saddle gun, and you left it on your saddle, or if you brought it in with you, then you set it down by the door. There were all kinds of rules for common courtesy around open carry.

Today OC is mostly identified with hunting, backpacking, or responding to dangerous situations in your immediate neighborhood. CC is normally utilized for everything else.

So glad you were able to time travel in a DeLorean to definitively and accurately tell us exactly how it was back then.

Does it derive from the 2nd Amendment? Sure. Of course. Although there have always been rules of discretion associated with that right.

Oh lordy, I can't WAIT for your elaboration on this :lol:
 
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