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What is the basis for open cary?

hjmoosejaw

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
406
Location
N.W. Pa.
I think if I go into a bar carrying, it will probably be CC rather than OC. That's just my personal choice. After reading some of these replies, some of them almost read as though they were written by antis. You can carry here, but under these conditions, because if you don't, this is going to happen. It almost sounds like the antis. If guns are allowed in here, this is going to happen. If people are allowed to carry there, this is going to happen. I say if it's legal, it's up to individuals, where, when and how they choose to carry. We can't assume that we know what will happen.
 

XDM40

New member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
7
Location
Wisconsin
I think if I go into a bar carrying, it will probably be CC rather than OC. That's just my personal choice. After reading some of these replies, some of them almost read as though they were written by antis. You can carry here, but under these conditions, because if you don't, this is going to happen. It almost sounds like the antis. If guns are allowed in here, this is going to happen. If people are allowed to carry there, this is going to happen. I say if it's legal, it's up to individuals, where, when and how they choose to carry. We can't assume that we know what will happen.

Actually we can assume in this case. What is the main reason for carrying a weapon? Self defense correct? Well if that is the reason for carrying then you are assuming that something bad could happen to you. Otherwise you wouldn't carry. Now I cannot speak for others here, but I know that I am not an anti by any stretch of the imagination.
As for the drinking while CCing. I agree with that law completely. Why take the chance of doing something stupid. The risk is much higher than the reward. Here in Wisconsin it is the law. Especially here in Wisconsin in the infancy of CC we need to mind our P's and Q's. The anti's are just itching to find an excuse to take out CC completely.
 

hjmoosejaw

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
406
Location
N.W. Pa.
Actually we can assume in this case. What is the main reason for carrying a weapon? Self defense correct? Well if that is the reason for carrying then you are assuming that something bad could happen to you. Otherwise you wouldn't carry. Now I cannot speak for others here, but I know that I am not an anti by any stretch of the imagination.
As for the drinking while CCing. I agree with that law completely. Why take the chance of doing something stupid. The risk is much higher than the reward. Here in Wisconsin it is the law. Especially here in Wisconsin in the infancy of CC we need to mind our P's and Q's. The anti's are just itching to find an excuse to take out CC completely.

Is there OC in Wisconsin? Here in Pa., you can CC or OC into a bar. I think it should be up to the individual's discretion where they carry. They could be in a little bar with a couple old timers after bass fishing, or they could be in a lively club downtown. One place would seem more risky than another. I've been out OCing and decided to go to a bar, but left my gun in the car. If I had a holster with me to CC, I might have, but didn't feel like OCing into there without knowing what the atmosphere was like. Agreed, some places seem like a dumb place to carry, but again, I think it is up to the individual.
 

XDM40

New member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
7
Location
Wisconsin
Yes you can OC in Wisconsin. You just cannot OC in a bar. You must CC there and as long as you CC you cannot drink. Now if I understand things correctly I can have a drink while I open carry. Say I am at a get together with family and friends, there I can have a beer or two as long as I am OC. Any one from WI want to clarify that for me would be great.

I see your point about certain bars. We have many that on a hopping sat night may have 3 people in it. If I want to have a beer there I should be able to, but the law says no, and I try to be as a law abiding citizen as I can. The problem with leaving it up to the individual is that not everyone is a responsible and intelligent. Sure myself, you and many others are responsible enough to do the best thing. But can you say that about the guy sitting at the end of the bar?
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
So it's GOOD to be required to be defenseless if the idiot at the end of the bar illegally carries AND decides to go crazy. Got it.
 

Logan 5

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
Logan, someone else has kinda pointed out that there is a difference between private property and private property generally open to the public...such as for commercial purposes. I suppose you may make the case that even private business owners can specify with whom they wish to do business. You would probably then justify such business owners putting up such signs as "Blacks Not Welcome!", "Jews Keep Out!", right beside "No Guns Allowed!" signs.

Yes and no. Yes property owners can specify who they do business with. No you cannot compare racism to denying firearms in a business. You can choose to leave the .357 in your truck, but you cannot leave your black skin there with it.
 

Citizen711

New member
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Central Indiana
In situations where the private property is a business and they invite the general public their "rights" as the private property owners should be taken into consideration but not necessarily trump others. An example of this would be placing a sign refusing entry based on religious beliefs.

Businesses that set a prohibitory policy against carry should be allowed to do so, but enforcement should be under the civil law and not criminal. If I exhibit a pattern of violating the "ban" then take me to court and have be permanently banished from your property. Only then should it be a criminal matter if I return. We have become a lazy society expecting the police to solve all our petty problems. Why there ought to be a law!

If their state allows them to refuse entry based on religious beliefs, then it is their right to do so. Carrying a weapon is no different. The state dictates that. If a patron enters a premises in a manner against the lawful wishes of the private owner, then refuses leave when asked, they are guilty of trespassing, which is a criminal offense. It's really pretty clear. Private property owners - even privately owned businesses - have a right to make their own determinations of who they allow in within the limits of the law.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
If their state allows them to refuse entry based on religious beliefs, then it is their right to do so. Carrying a weapon is no different. The state dictates that. If a patron enters a premises in a manner against the lawful wishes of the private owner, then refuses leave when asked, they are guilty of trespassing, which is a criminal offense. It's really pretty clear. Private property owners - even privately owned businesses - have a right to make their own determinations of who they allow in within the limits of the law.

The state's control over racial issues has been removed from them by Federal civil rights laws. Even if a state "allowed" racial discrimination, Federal laws would rightly protect the victims that are being denied their civil rights.

The Constitution protects your right to be treated like a citizen regardless of your religion, race, color, etc. It also protects your right to be armed for self-defense. It shouldn't be a big stretch to treat the latter as a protected civil right.
 

Shoobee

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
Location
CCCP (Calif)
So glad you were able to time travel in a DeLorean to definitively and accurately tell us exactly how it was back then.

Oh lordy, I can't WAIT for your elaboration on this :lol:

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack / inappropriate
 
Last edited by a moderator:

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
So glad you were able to time travel in a DeLorean to definitively and accurately tell us exactly how it was back then.



Oh lordy, I can't WAIT for your elaboration on this :lol:

Why are you being so damned argumentative.
Don't you know anyone who has seen enough John Wayne flicks and speak authoritatively about how it was back then?
No need for the DeLorean.
;)
 

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,884
Location
SC
Why are you being so damned argumentative.

I take issue with people who speak authoritatively on subjects as if they were the end-all-be-all-know-it-all on the subject. There is a line between opinion and fact, and that line is usually called arrogance. Since arrogance neither serves or educates, why tolerate it?

Don't you know anyone who has seen enough John Wayne flicks and speak authoritatively about how it was back then?
No need for the DeLorean.
;)

I grew up watching the Duke's movies. Does that mean I'm an expert? :lol:
 

gobbly

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
75
Location
Utah
There is a line between opinion and fact, and that line is usually called arrogance.

o_O

Arrogance is an attitude. Fact is something that is true, opinion is something someone believes. Someone can be arrogant stating fact, or opinion, so I believe your test of fact is rather flawed...
 
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twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I take issue with people who speak authoritatively on subjects as if they were the end-all-be-all-know-it-all on the subject. There is a line between opinion and fact, and that line is usually called arrogance. Since arrogance neither serves or educates, why tolerate it?



I grew up watching the Duke's movies. Does that mean I'm an expert? :lol:

The Duke is the man!
Just so long as you realize I was being facetious. I also get a leeee-tle tired of the "well THIS is the way it was" attitudes.
 

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2011
Messages
1,884
Location
SC
o_O

Arrogance is an attitude. Fact is something that is true, opinion is something someone believes. Someone can be arrogant stating fact, or opinion, so I believe your test of fact is rather flawed...

I never said one couldn't be both factual and arrogant. I did say;

Since arrogance neither serves or educates, why tolerate it?







The Duke is the man!
Just so long as you realize I was being facetious. I also get a leeee-tle tired of the "well THIS is the way it was" attitudes.

I suspected you were, but chose to err on the side of caution, since the internet has a certain lack of inflection :cool:
 
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