Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: In re Castle Doctrine and paramilitarization SWATTING FBI.gov, Donít Make the Call

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest

    In re Castle Doctrine and paramilitarization SWATTING FBI.gov, Donít Make the Call

    "There is an organizational effort by the institutional left--of which Kimberlin is a well-connected part--to silence conservatives, both in the "real" world and through social networks like Twitter. As these bloggers note, the best disinfectant is sunlight.

    The story is complex and required reading. Settle in and check out the links below, including the fantastic work done by Breitbart.com's Liberty Chick."

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...Kimberlin-2012
    http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2008...swatting020408
    Quote Originally Posted by FBI
    And the officers are placed in danger as unsuspecting residents may try to defend themselves.
    SWATting the Ericksons
    http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/0...comment-184577
    Last week we spent a lot of time writing about Brett Kimberlin and the incident involving blogger Patterico where someone spoofed his phone number and told 911 he had shot his wife.

    Tonight, my family was sitting around the kitchen table eating dinner when sheriffs deputies pulled up in the driveway.

    Someone called 911 from my address claiming there had been an accidental shooting.
    New American Terrorism: SWATting http://deanesmay.com/2012/05/25/new-...rism-swatting/
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 05-28-2012 at 08:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690

    Was wondering

    Given the cases I have read saying that cell phone call are not private and the phreaking skill that would have changed with the times. I was wondering when something like this might happen.
    I know that if someone were to do this and call the IRS using the person's name and such there would not be the investigation against those making the bogus calls.

    Not that I would ever say to do anything like that just pointing out how corrupt the government is.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Until and unless we are willing to give THEM the authority to pull up not only the true phone number but the location of the phone making the call* there is little to protect someone from this behavior. Unfortunately, even when the cops have the data on the person SWATting they refuse to prosecute and refuse to release the info so the person SWATted can persue criminal and civil action against the caller.

    I am not sure I want to give them that authority.

    stay safe.

    * While Skype and multiple proxies make it difficult, it is possible to identify the calling phone. Just ask some of the folks who had Predator visits from calling certain phones known to be associated with certain groups.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    What are you talking about Skid?

    In a separate, multistate case prosecuted by federal authorities in Dallas, eight people were charged with orchestrating up to 300 "swatting" calls to victims they met on telephone party chat lines. The three ringleaders were each sentenced to five years in prison. Two others were sentenced to 2 1/2 years. One defendant pleaded guilty last week and could get a 13-year sentence. The remaining two are set to go on trial in February.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,486444,00.html

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    This:
    "We're not able to cope with this very well," said Roger Hixson, technical issues director for the National Emergency Number Association, the 911 system's industry group. "We're just hoping this doesn't become a widespread hobby."
    The 911 system was built on the idea it could trust the information it was receiving from callers. Upgrading the system to accommodate new technologies can be a huge task.
    Gary Allen, editor of Dispatch Monthly, a Berkeley, Calif.-based magazine focused on public-safety communications centers, said dispatchers are "totally at the mercy of the people who call" and the fact they don't have technology to identify which incoming calls are from Internet-based sources.
    Allen said upgrading the communications centers' computers to flash an Internet caller's IP address could be helpful in thwarting fraudulent calls. He said an even simpler fix, tweaking the computers to identify calls from Internet telephone services and flash the name of the service provider to dispatchers, can cost under $5,000, but is usually still too costly for many communications centers.
    The technology exists to prevent SWATting. It is costly and would add a layer of delay that the 9-1-1 system does not want to endure. Are you willing to pay an even larger 9-1-1 fee as part of your phone bill? Are you willing to wait an additional (swag) 5 minutes before fire/ambulance/police are dispatched?

    On the other hand, the forensics exists to be able to track SWATters down after the fact, It is expensive. Are you willing to pay for it?

    I'd rather see a smaller amount put into training to teach the militarized police to stop and think before going in like a bunch of housewives at the 2 AM opening of a Black Friday sale.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  6. #6
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    There will be no peace until they are again Peace Officers and neighbors. While they are law enforcers you young-folk face a Brave New World of double-speak, thought crime and pre-crime.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    There will be no peace until they are again Peace Officers and neighbors. While they are law enforcers you young-folk face a Brave New World of double-speak, thought crime and pre-crime.
    Reminiscing about a time that never existed? I enjoy reading fictional posts.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 05-29-2012 at 10:43 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    <snip> I'd rather see a smaller amount put into training to teach the militarized police to stop and think before going in like a bunch of housewives at the 2 AM opening of a Black Friday sale.

    stay safe.
    Interesting position, attempt to undue what LE has been and is dead set on doing.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  9. #9
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Reminiscing about a time that never existed? I enjoy reading fictional posts.
    Not reminiscing, foolish youngster of whatever age, it is a premonition, a dream of your future, and one YOU well deserve.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Not reminiscing, foolish youngster of whatever age, it is a premonition, a dream of your future, and one YOU well deserve.
    I am 34. I remember Officer Friendly, actually. And McGruff (spelled something like that). Now I see the unfortunate ruins of what ought to be a healthy relationship between LEO's, and Civilians.

    I should point out that my family, and me were walking to the park just the other day, and there was a Seattle Police Officer parked, and he waved as we walked passed him.--personally, I would like to see more of that.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    270
    Has anyone noticed that police cars don't say protect and serve any more?

  12. #12
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    Has anyone noticed that police cars don't say protect and serve any more?
    LOL, now they state: In case of emergency dial 911. You can't flag them down anymore?

    So, fifteen years ago I was hanging out at a mini-mart where my sister worked grave-yard shift. Her, and me were outside having a cigarette, talking, and at my peripheral I see the other worker standing at the door, and a couple of males standing in front of her with large cases of beer tucked under each arm. The next thing I see is one of the thugs ramming into the clerk, and she comes flying out the door with the thugs hot on her, running her down. Out of instinct I reached out to grab hold of one of the guys, and he drops his lott of beer, and a struggle ensues. He yells to his friend, "get the gun out homey!"

    At that point I can hear my sisters faint voice screaming my name, that the other guy has a gun. I look up at the guy as he is reaching into his pocket, and happen to look pass him to the roadway where there is a Utah highway patrol officers, just happening to drive by. My sister waves him down, the thugs run off, and the office chases one of them, in his patrol cruiser, over the grass.

    The officer stated that if he had known the thug was armed, he would have just ran him over with his cruiser LOL. Anyhoo. That officer was definitely friendly.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #13
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    This:

    The technology exists to prevent SWATting. It is costly and would add a layer of delay that the 9-1-1 system does not want to endure. Are you willing to pay an even larger 9-1-1 fee as part of your phone bill? Are you willing to wait an additional (swag) 5 minutes before fire/ambulance/police are dispatched?

    On the other hand, the forensics exists to be able to track SWATters down after the fact, It is expensive. Are you willing to pay for it?

    I'd rather see a smaller amount put into training to teach the militarized police to stop and think before going in like a bunch of housewives at the 2 AM opening of a Black Friday sale.

    stay safe.
    Sounds to me more like a sales pitch than a factual summary of current situation. SWATters are tracked down and prosecuted by the FBI. They may not be able to prevent it from happening, but they sure as hell will track down and prosecute those responsible. Which is all we usually ask anyway, isn't it?

    Unfortunately, even when the cops have the data on the person SWATting they refuse to prosecute and refuse to release the info so the person SWATted can persue criminal and civil action against the caller.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    75
    the militarization of police is dangerous imo...

  15. #15
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by gobbly View Post
    the militarization of police is dangerous imo...
    It begs the question: Is there a correlation between the militarization of Police, and the rise in death?:

    " WASHINGTON ó As violent crime has decreased across the country, a disturbing trend has emerged: rising numbers of police officers are being killed.





    The New York Times

    Enlarge This Image

    New York Police Department

    A gun recovered from a Brooklyn apartment after a shootout on Sunday that left four New York City police officers wounded.




    According to statistics compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 72 officers were killed by perpetrators in 2011, a 25 percent increase from the previous year and a 75 percent increase from 2008. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/us...-the-rise.html
    The argument has always been for Officer Safety of the Why officers are using military means to accomplish their task. It appears that their evolving (militarization) approach is actually more dangerous.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Sounds to me more like a sales pitch than a factual summary of current situation. SWATters are tracked down and prosecuted by the FBI. They may not be able to prevent it from happening, but they sure as hell will track down and prosecute those responsible. Which is all we usually ask anyway, isn't it?
    Except that the behavior of the cops responding to the call (SWATted or real) is based on an immediate application of overwhelming force.

    But that overwhelming force does not have to include shooting just because you have a firearm in your hand.

    Unfortunately, that seems to be the way some cops act.

    Do I have the answer that will resolve all of the conflicting issues and wrap it up with a pretty bow? No, not by a long shot. But keeping the discussion open and on-going is better than shrugging your shoulders and saying no matter what happens it can all be sorted out in court later on.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    I80, USA
    Posts
    2,661
    You stated that couldn't be prosecuted and that when they could the cops wouldn't. I was merely correcting you. I agree there needs to be better training.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    SWATters are tracked down and prosecuted by the FBI.
    Except fro the ones they "can't" trace, and I think EVERYONE knows where those ones are located...

    Right, Cass, Keith and Janet?...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionóand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •