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I wish I could design the perfect (for me) .380 sub compact

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
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WV
mm.. saw significant quantities of Mak ammo on the shelves at Dick's, Gander, and Academy this past weekend.. but.. for bulk :

http://www.targetsportsusa.com/c-58-9mm-makarov-ammo.aspx

14 possible choices + bulk purchase rates.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/che...t-prices-c-10480_14658_14743_14911_14762.html

mmmmm.... I definitely stand corrected. Although I still can't recall seeing any locally I certainly agree it is available online.
I guess I've gotten so used to buying 1000 rd boxes of 5.56 and 7.62 from ammoman.com I must have gotten it into my head that if they didn't have it it was odd-ball.

Thanks!
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
i wish they came perfect but vary little mods they are great guns. just polish the feed rail all the way down until mirrored, then you should have no problems. if you think that your taking to much off you can always dry cycle it until the bullet goes in with 0 effort.

and no problem with the pics i always try to help out bersa owner because i love them so much.

and if all of that doesnt work ill gladly take your cc off your hands for you ;)

Don't be too quick to want it. Go on Bersachat sometime and search all the people who have had problems. There are a unfortunate large amount.

Anyway I'll keep working at it. I do love so much of what the gun does offer.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
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WV
The 2 shot transition between DA and SA, no ifs ands or buts, is harder to do accurately than 2 fast shots with a DAO or SAO. I don't care who you are, it'll take more time to get good at.

You are in the same predicament, to the T, that I was in 2010. My suggestion is that you do what I did. Take a small DAO handgun, such as a Kel Tec, or a revolver to the range. Grip it with one hand, so hard that your arm starts shaking. Back off by 10 percent so your arm stables. Point it at your target, disregard the sights, instead pointing it at your target. Now, at a distance of 6-12 feet, blast away as fast as you can. This is the basis for up close Applegate Fairbairn Sykes shooting, and in my experience the easiest way to shoot micro mouse guns. It may take you 100 or 200 rounds, but you'll get good at it.

DAO mouse guns are simply not well suited for sight picture use. They're too small, and too snappy with too long of trigger pulls to be shot at ranges beyond that which point shooting is capable. Yes, you can take your time, stage the trigger, and shoot more accurate long range shots. Good luck shooting a micro .380 DAO with that much precision at any distance at a combat speed. That's why I agree, I'd rather have a DA/SA and have the long range capability of a gun like a P238. But it doesn't exist just yet.

The good news is that once/if you come to terms with these current facts of life, the Seecamp and copycat models are much smaller than the guns you're talking about, in fact being the smallest on the market without going down to .22 or .25, have okay DAO triggers, and with practice and ball ammo are capable weapons out to 15 feet or so. And that's further than the majority of concealed carriers could ever expect to have to have to shoot from in a defensive situation.

If you go larger, such as up to a 380 Kel Tec or better yet the Kahr, you'll have much more accuracy potential. Go for the PPK sized Taurus, and you'll be formidably armed with a shootable platform with a good deal of power.

It's all a trade off going up and down. You just have to decide what fits your needs. The bottom line is this, trust me, you can get good with whatever you need to. It just takes a desire to do it.

I appreciate your DAO enthusiasm and your "no if's and's or but's" opinion but at this point I hold to my beliefs for the reason why I prefer the SA/DA. Who knows, maybe one day I'll be on board. :lol:
 

DreQo

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Ah, thank you for getting the quintessential "forum-firearm-master-retard" comments out of the way earlier on.
SOMEONE had to "strongly recommend" a DAO pistol after reading I required SA/DA.



Ah yes add a side of implication that "if I had awesome training like YOU, I would CERTAINLY agree with YOUR take on loading a gun, after all the way YOU like to do it is the ONLY way it should be done



Ah and of course top it off with some OH-SO-CLEVER innuendo that if I was "man enough" I should use the caliber you use or approve.

Your are truly a good person for quickly portraying yourself as such a worthless jack@ss by getting the obligatory idiocies out of the way.
Thank you.

Try making your point without putting words in my mouth. And while you're at it, grow up and try to have a conversation without name calling.

So far you've shown that you are set in your ways by refusing to consider practicing with a superior firearm action, that you're hot-headed and easily pushed into escalating a confrontation, and that you're generally unskilled with anything but one certain type of handgun. You also admit to carrying guns designed with manual safeties in an unsafe manner. You ignore any recommendations that don't fit your preconceived mold of the perfect gun that for some reason you can't fathom doesn't exist.

I offered my experience and knowledge to you so that you may not have to learn all of your lessons the hard way. I can see that you prefer the path of ignorance. I hope your poor choices don't get you, or worse, someone else killed.
 

Michigander

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Aug 24, 2007
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Mulligan's Valley
I appreciate your DAO enthusiasm and your "no if's and's or but's" opinion but at this point I hold to my beliefs for the reason why I prefer the SA/DA. Who knows, maybe one day I'll be on board. :lol:

The difficulty with the transition is proven fact. It is an added skill. Many PPK's also have very heavy DA pulls, making the difference considerably worse than usual. Nevermind that I believe most also need to have the safety on to keep the firing pin blocked for carrying. A horrible DA pull and a safety to shut off are not ideal traits for a carry gun.

You can cheat your way through at the range by cocking the hammer manually as many do, but doing double or triple taps starting with the hammer down is the only honest way to assess your skill level. And if you're well practiced at it, great! I'm as dedicated to it as you are, and thus my primary is a good old fashion P220. And if you prefer PPK's, great! It will however make you among a tiny minority that likes a snappy blowback with a not too great grip profile over a more modern comfortable grip recoil operated gun which carries more easily. I say this not to be argumentative, but rather because I'd hope that I can spare you the trouble of buying a PPK type gun you'll end up not using that often.

Good luck with however you proceed.
 
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Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
mm.. saw significant quantities of Mak ammo on the shelves at Dick's, Gander, and Academy this past weekend.. but.. for bulk :

http://www.targetsportsusa.com/c-58-9mm-makarov-ammo.aspx

14 possible choices + bulk purchase rates.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/che...t-prices-c-10480_14658_14743_14911_14762.html

The 115 and 120 grain JHP ammo from Russia was the way to go for x18 carry ammo. Unfortunately it hasn't been imported in years, probably because of liability with alloy framed PPK variants in x18 which can't really handle it. This ammo puts x18 well past 380 performance, up into lower end 9mm performance. Reloading cannot duplicate these loads, because no bullets are available. x18 is slightly wider than 380 and 9mm, and no one makes a 115 grain bonded JHP for x18 which is available in the US.

My suggestion to anyone considering a x18 for carry is first to secure at least 100 rounds of 115 or 120 grain JHP ammo if you can find it, and then to buy the gun. Otherwise all you'll be getting for your efforts is .380 power.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Try making your point without putting words in my mouth. And while you're at it, grow up and try to have a conversation without name calling.

So far you've shown that you are set in your ways by refusing to consider practicing with a superior firearm action, that you're hot-headed and easily pushed into escalating a confrontation, and that you're generally unskilled with anything but one certain type of handgun. You also admit to carrying guns designed with manual safeties in an unsafe manner. You ignore any recommendations that don't fit your preconceived mold of the perfect gun that for some reason you can't fathom doesn't exist.

I offered my experience and knowledge to you so that you may not have to learn all of your lessons the hard way. I can see that you prefer the path of ignorance. I hope your poor choices don't get you, or worse, someone else killed.


Hey Dre I didn't read your post but I'm sure it was a some well-deserved backlash to my bad post.
I'm not sure why I decided to rant on and on in response to pretty common drivel anyone can see on just about every thread.
I certainly apologize.
 

twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
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WV
The difficulty with the transition is proven fact.

I would like to see this proof if you would mind posting it or linking to it.
As I've said I've owned SAO, DAO, and SA/DA and what works best for me is SA/DA.
I'm quicker and more accurate and feel more secure with it. So that is what I want to carry.
 

Michigander

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I would like to see this proof if you would mind posting it or linking to it.
As I've said I've owned SAO, DAO, and SA/DA and what works best for me is SA/DA.
I'm quicker and more accurate and feel more secure with it. So that is what I want to carry.

There is nothing to post, and nothing to prove. When firing rapidly, your finger pulling a long and heavy DA pull followed by a much shorter and lighter SA pull will suffer accuracy loss without extensive practice, because your muscles in your hand have to compensate for the difference, and it's not easy.

However, with practice, the transition is doable, and the subsequent SA pulls are fast and easy, which is why I like it too, and don't mind added DA-SA drills every time I practice.

In claiming you have never had this problem, you are implying to me that you either haven't practiced double taps from DA very much, or that you have some extraordinary anomaly for a shooting hand.

In any case, practice will be the key to perfection for whatever platform you end up with for this application. So again, good luck with whatever route you take.
 
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newbie

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
148
Location
west bend
Don't be too quick to want it. Go on Bersachat sometime and search all the people who have had problems. There are a unfortunate large amount.

Anyway I'll keep working at it. I do love so much of what the gun does offer.

almost every gun out there has some sort of problem, and with the bersa since i trust mine and know it so well i think the only logical answer for my next .380 will be the bersa cc 380. i love the style of the gun and i have a friend who has one he loves his. i did his feed ramp for him he had jams at least one in every mag. we thought it would be the mag itself we changed that with no luck, then i did his feed ramp and his problems were gone. maybe its the luck of the draw but from the 2 i have handled i love them both
 

twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
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WV
So again, good luck with whatever route you take.

Thank you.

almost every gun out there has some sort of problem, and with the bersa since i trust mine and know it so well i think the only logical answer for my next .380 will be the bersa cc 380. i love the style of the gun and i have a friend who has one he loves his. i did his feed ramp for him he had jams at least one in every mag. we thought it would be the mag itself we changed that with no luck, then i did his feed ramp and his problems were gone. maybe its the luck of the draw but from the 2 i have handled i love them both

Well I have been polishing a good deal. She's looking mirror shiny! ;)

I look forward to getting it out to the range for some extensive testing.
+1 on loving the style. If i do end up replacing it for CC I will be sad.
 

The Wolfhound

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Sep 3, 2009
Messages
728
Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
no issues with my Bersa CC

I ran a couple of hundred rounds through it, first, to "prove it out". It eats anything I have fed it so far. No polishing needed on mine, maybe I got lucky. I consider it my "dress gun" for the occaisions when my .45 is awkward to carry.
 

rscottie

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
608
Location
Ashland, Kentucky, USA
I almost got a .380 one time. It was a Sig Sauer P230. It fit my hand like a dream, like it was made for me.

I did not get that gun and ended up with a S&W 3913 in 9mm.

It was just OK but I have since sold it.

They stopped making the P230 I am told. I found its replacement, the P232, but alas, it did not feel the same in my hand.

I look around the used gun sections at various places.

Perhaps one day I will find me a nice little used P230.

If I was designing a .380, it would be like the P230.
 

tcox4freedom

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Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
94
Location
, South Carolina, USA
Don't be too quick to want it. Go on Bersachat sometime and search all the people who have had problems. There are a unfortunate large amount.

Anyway I'll keep working at it. I do love so much of what the gun does offer.

It's funny. I've been a member of BersaChat for years. I don't recall reading about many problem guns. I have seen a lot of problem shooters come over & complain though.

Personally, I've had a Bersa for almost twenty years. I've lost count of the 1000's of flawless rounds that I've put through mine.

What's you screen name over on BersaChat?

I know a few folks over there that would be willing to take your Bersa off your hands. (including me)
 
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twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
Messages
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It's funny. I've been a member of BersaChat for years. I don't recall reading about many problem guns. I have seen a lot of problem shooters come over & complain though.

Maybe you could explain this problem gun vs problem shooter comment. Just for the record I dropped into bersachat just for kicks and found:

3 separate shooters with broken safty/decocking levers.
1 shooter with usual trigger issues
1 shooter claiming a broken trigger return spring
4-5 separate shooter claiming FTF/FTE failures at the range

This was just a quick look at the first page of the Forum: Thunder .380 and Thunder .380 CC Models
All new topics within the 3 weeks or so.

Anyway. As I say I like my Bersa and have good hopes of making it reliable, but I'm not brand loyal to the point of turning a blind eye to problems.
 
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SovereignAxe

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
791
Location
Elizabethton, TN
Try making your point without putting words in my mouth. And while you're at it, grow up and try to have a conversation without name calling.

So far you've shown that you are set in your ways by refusing to consider practicing with a superior firearm action, that you're hot-headed and easily pushed into escalating a confrontation, and that you're generally unskilled with anything but one certain type of handgun. You also admit to carrying guns designed with manual safeties in an unsafe manner. You ignore any recommendations that don't fit your preconceived mold of the perfect gun that for some reason you can't fathom doesn't exist.

I offered my experience and knowledge to you so that you may not have to learn all of your lessons the hard way. I can see that you prefer the path of ignorance. I hope your poor choices don't get you, or worse, someone else killed.

I'm surprised it took this long to call this guy out because...

Ah, thank you for getting the quintessential "forum-firearm-master-retard" comments out of the way earlier on.
SOMEONE had to "strongly recommend" a DAO pistol after reading I required SA/DA.



Ah yes add a side of implication that "if I had awesome training like YOU, I would CERTAINLY agree with YOUR take on loading a gun, after all the way YOU like to do it is the ONLY way it should be done



Ah and of course top it off with some OH-SO-CLEVER innuendo that if I was "man enough" I should use the caliber you use or approve.

Your are truly a good person for quickly portraying yourself as such a worthless jack@ss by getting the obligatory idiocies out of the way.
Thank you.

after reading this post I would have abandoned the thread. I'm surprised anyone took the time to help you after reading this (although I think your point about the .40 cal is a good one)

Hey Dre I didn't read your post but I'm sure it was a some well-deserved backlash to my bad post.
I'm not sure why I decided to rant on and on in response to pretty common drivel anyone can see on just about every thread.
I certainly apologize.

and I'm rather amazed to see this in the same thread.

carry on.
 

DreQo

State Researcher
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Jan 8, 2007
Messages
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Location
Minnesota
Don't be surprised by that last part - it's called tucking tail.

On a civilized note, it's actually funny that this conversation came up. My new-to-carry uncle just went through a similar search. He was convinced that he needed some sort of external hammer, small caliber,da/sa mess. He already owns and carries (with the safety off) a Walther ppk. Then he went out and bought a frame-cracking tomcat before doing his research.

If you go up in caliber, there are plenty of options. If you settle for a safer, more modern action, there are plenty of options. What is it about the .380 that some people love so much?
 

Michigander

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What is it about the .380 that some people love so much?

Size. This here is a comparison of the smallest available .380 to the smallest available 9mm. The picture shows it as the .380 model, but if I remember right the 9mm version is the same size.
 

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Goingdef

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May 12, 2012
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29
Location
Norfolk VA
I ended up with a Thunder 380 because my wife thought the pink wood grips where "cute" it has jammed on the last round since the first time it was used and on all ammo! so at this point I gave it to my mother/father to OC since they walk there dogs late on the beach it came with the warning that the last round will jam tip up, I did polish the ramp on it before handing it over but didn't even bother to fire it as I didn't think it would change anything. since getting rid of the Bersa I bought her a Beretta 84fs nickel plated it much like my 92fs Inox have been nothing but flawless from the start with no issue's.
 

twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
Messages
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Location
WV
I ended up with a Thunder 380 because my wife thought the pink wood grips where "cute" it has jammed on the last round since the first time it was used and on all ammo! so at this point I gave it to my mother/father to OC since they walk there dogs late on the beach it came with the warning that the last round will jam tip up, I did polish the ramp on it before handing it over but didn't even bother to fire it as I didn't think it would change anything. since getting rid of the Bersa I bought her a Beretta 84fs nickel plated it much like my 92fs Inox have been nothing but flawless from the start with no issue's.

I have shot the 84f and like it. I'm still considering it. It's just a little big. A little fat. Not tooo bad though.
 
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