Do you think open carrying makes you more or less of a target?

Miss Black Rifle Disease said:

I do understand your point here, but may I suggest another view of it. You mentioned the, though rare, intent of the determined criminal. It seems to me that a criminal, determined in this manner, would also have a focused intent meaning you specifically. And in that case I would think you would be a target armed, unarmed, open carry or otherwise.

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In the case of a one on one or a group on one encounter, yes, but in the case of a robbery if they are willing to kill it would move you to the top of the list fast. Now this situation is still probably a sign you should go buy a lottery ticket since you are so good at defying the odds, with under 1500 bank robberies a year and less than 1% having death occur if you are shot in a bank robbery you are in one of only 150 bad times to be in a bank anywhere in the US in a year, you stand a much better chance of getting killed from a firearm accident than a bank robbery and given the exposure times (banks v. guns) for people on here one is FAR more likely.

here ya go

Two guys deter armed robbery of waffle house by open carrying.

www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw

Two guys deter armed robbery of waffle house by open carrying.

When i do open carry I am in Condition Yellow: Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself". You are simply aware that the world is a potentially unfriendly place and that you are prepared to defend yourself, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to shoot today". You don't have to be armed in this state, but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six." (In aviation 12 o'clock refers to the direction in front of the aircraft's nose. Six o'clock is the blind spot behind the pilot.) In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep. As Cooper put it, "I might have to shoot."

skidmark said:

There is an offer of a certain amount of cash money to be paid for the first verified report that an OCer was shot solely because they were OCing. That offer has been out there longer than I have been registered on this site. To date no verifiable report has been submitted,

This is as good a place as any to republicize the existence of the offer.

Perhaps your sister could use some cash money?

stay safe.

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I thought the offer was to show someone who was targeted for crime because they were OCing. And what about the individual who was the victim of a gun grab due to OCing. The one who then chased after the criminal and was then shot (presumptively with his own gun). Did people not submit the "proper" paperwork for that incident?

Still, that is all of one incident in who knows how many years (there was another incident one can find on the web, but Dreamer contacted the cops and found out it was a false report and the individual was being charged as making a false report), compared to how often CCers have to pull their guns to defend theirselves since they look like any other defenseless target.

So I had a small nuclear device surgically placed next to my heart. So if my heart stops beating for more then 30 seconds it goes off. Atomizing everything in a 500 meter radius. That way I get the guy that did it.

Aknazer said:

I thought the offer was to show someone who was targeted for crime because they were OCing. And what about the individual who was the victim of a gun grab due to OCing. The one who then chased after the criminal and was then shot (presumptively with his own gun). Did people not submit the "proper" paperwork for that incident?

Still, that is all of one incident in who knows how many years (there was another incident one can find on the web, but Dreamer contacted the cops and found out it was a false report and the individual was being charged as making a false report), compared to how often CCers have to pull their guns to defend theirselves since they look like any other defenseless target.

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Skid keeps trying to volunteer somebody else's money - actually no cash prize was ever to my knowledge offered.

No "paper work" required - just a simple verifiable cite, not that an OCer was a victim of a crime, but that he/she was preemptively taken out - killed. There has been one found and it was here in VA.

There is a 2nd challenge with similar terms regarding a snatch of an OCd gun. Similar results but double the approximated numerical value of .000001%. I still like the odds.

Even the one in VA.really doesn't fit the terms:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?97661-Open-Carrier-killed-with-own-gun

xtensity said:

I recently was having this argument with my sister who Conceal Carries. She basically was saying that because you have a gun openly on your waste, you are going to be an immediate threat for criminals meaning you will be shot.

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I make it a point to not carry my waste around with me, and flush it before leaving the house.

xtensity said:

My assumption was that the majority of people who do armed robberies do not actually want to have to shoot somebody... a murder charge is a murder charge.?

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The only thing I would assume about someone brandishing a firearm (unless we're inside a gun store), is that they are a potential threat. I agree that the "majority" of armed robbers display the weapon as an intimidation factor, hoping to gain compliance from their victim(s) without having to put the weapon to it's intended use - firing a projectile. However... there are those few who are not just ready to shoot somebody, but are looking for any opportunity to do so. Unfortunately, neither of these armed robbers wears a uniform - or even a white hat - so you can tell one from the other. If the BG is pointing a gun and is not ready to shoot it, he has a latent death wish. OC'ing in the first case is less dangerous than in the second. Even the BG's know that you take out the most serious threat(s) first, and if the second BG above is at all observant of his surroundings, the OC'er could be in trouble.

xtensity said:

An example of this being my friend, who has had multiple guns pulled on him in side his house of people purchasing from him, and he just sits there all chill and mocks them like they wont shoot... 100% of the people didn't shoot and just left.?

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Is your "friend" a dope dealer? Mocking someone that is pointing a gun at you probably isn't the smartest thing to do. Get a whacko pointing that gun, and you will only succeed in pi**ing him/her off... perhaps to the point of "bustin' a cap in yo a$$".

xtensity said:

Back to open carrying... Doesn't it make sense that if a random criminal thinking about commiting a crime sees you open carrying a gun, he is going to think twice about commiting the crime against you? Why add an extra risk to the scenario? If I were in the criminal shoes I would not engage the man who definitely has a firearm, but rather wait for somebody who has the chance of not carrying any gun.?

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Your question, "Doesn't it make sense that if a random criminal thinking about commiting a crime sees you open carrying a gun, he is going to think twice about commiting the crime against you?" has obvious merit. Anybody with any intelligence would probably pass you by for a less threatening prospect. Most small-time criminals are opportunistic, and they do not carefully plan out street crimes (as would a bank robber or international jewel thief). Keep in mind though, that those with half a brain (or even less) are smart enough to keep the element of surprise on their side (on the other hand, the "element of surprise" is equally on the side of the CC'er, but the CC'er is also faced with an average additional presentation delay time of approx .75 sec - even Bob Munden).

xtensity said:

Which argument is right? My sister is thinking that because you have a visible gun then to any criminal whether they commited they crime yet or not, is just going to shoot you because you are a threat to them, under the premis that the criminal is stupid/crazy. This is wrong right??

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A visible gun is a visible threat, and if the BG(s) intention is to shoot someone, the OC'er will probably be his primary target. Personally, I believe the odds of finding oneself facing that kind of homicidal intent are relatively small. If you should experience such an encounter personally, please let us know how it came out... if you can. I don't believe either you or your sister are totally wrong.

xtensity said:

I just want some input on this wonderful forum. Do you think Open Carrying makes you less of a target for violent crime, or more of a target?

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My "bottom line" (in case you missed it) is that it all depends on the BG's intent (and without "Spidey-senses", guessing his/her intent is a crapshoot). There's about 20 questions that have to be answered within that millisecond before you commit one way or the other. The most important question is, how will you react when faced with such a scenario, and will your reaction be legally defensible. Pax...

A visible gun is a visible threat, and if the BG(s) intention is to shoot someone, the OC'er will probably be his primary target. Personally, I believe the odds of finding oneself facing that kind of homicidal intent are relatively small. If you should experience such an encounter personally, please let us know how it came out... if you can. I don't believe either you or your sister are totally wrong.

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Plus 1+

I think it's a far more dangerous endeavor to suddenly "surprise" a BG that is ALREADY in the process of victimizing you. This could place the BG (robber) in the precarious situation of of having to escalate the situation to MURDER in order to survive. (To me, it makes more sense for a BG look elsewhere for his victim in the first place.)

My mind says; "It would seem a lot safer "NOT" be involved in a BG encounter in the first place; than finding yourself in the middle of a FIGHT with a criminal worried about their own survival."

-

skidmark said:

There is an offer of a certain amount of cash money to be paid for the first verified report that an OCer was shot solely because they were OCing. That offer has been out there longer than I have been registered on this site. To date no verifiable report has been submitted,

This is as good a place as any to republicize the existence of the offer.

Perhaps your sister could use some cash money?

stay safe.

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Enough money to cover funeral costs?

Originally Posted by skidmark

There is an offer of a certain amount of cash money to be paid for the first verified report that an OCer was shot solely because they were OCing. That offer has been out there longer than I have been registered on this site. To date no verifiable report has been submitted,

This is as good a place as any to republicize the existence of the offer.

Perhaps your sister could use some cash money?

stay safe.

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MainelyGlock said:

Enough money to cover funeral costs?

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From what part of left field did that come? Surely you are not implying that solely OCing is a death sentence.
Skid will have you for a snack w/o any extra seasoning.

Grapeshot said:

From what part of left field did that come? Surely you are not implying that solely OCing is a death sentence.
Skid will have you for a snack w/o any extra seasoning.

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Yikes. Sarcasm does not translate well across the internet, does it?

Criminals are not rocket scientists...you never know what they are going to do.....either way, it stays in my front pocket....it's kind of like they say about the lions chasing you and your friends...you don't have to be the fastest, just don't be the slowest....I think if you OC, you will draw attention to yourself, which means, you might turn out to be the slowest......

berettabone said:

Criminals are not rocket scientists...you never know what they are going to do.....either way, it stays in my front pocket....it's kind of like they say about the lions chasing you and your friends...you don't have to be the fastest, just don't be the slowest....I think if you OC, you will draw attention to yourself, which means, you might turn out to be the slowest......

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You repeat an old, worn out, old wives tale. OC does not make you a target of opportunity - more to the point OCing makes a great "I'm not an easy victim" statement.

You say that it (gun) "stays in in my front pocket" therefore you are CCing. Have you any depth of experience OCing or are just repeating a false dogma indicative of no practical knowledge and with no basis in fact?

If a person is going to attack you while OC they will attack you CC. As said before, you can't know. Just the mere carrying of a firearm isn't going to give you automatic safety but it is a tool in the arsenal. Even well trained professionals are victims of crimes and some may even be shot.

I get tired of CC is better... or OC is better... there are pros and cons to both (but more pros for OC then CC IMHOP). Just know this, in todays politically charged, emotional reasoning world if you shoot you will be spending years in prison and the criminal has won even if you shoot him/her dead. In the justice system we have set up today committing a crime is a win win situation for the criminal.

berettabone said:

Criminals are not rocket scientists...you never know what they are going to do.....either way, it stays in my front pocket....it's kind of like they say about the lions chasing you and your friends...you don't have to be the fastest, just don't be the slowest....I think if you OC, you will draw attention to yourself, which means, you might turn out to be the slowest......

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Packer fan said:

If a person is going to attack you while OC they will attack you CC. As said before, you can't know. Just the mere carrying of a firearm isn't going to give you automatic safety but it is a tool in the arsenal. Even well trained professionals are victims of crimes and some may even be shot.

I get tired of CC is better... or OC is better... there are pros and cons to both (but more pros for OC then CC IMHOP). Just know this, in todays politically charged, emotional reasoning world if you shoot you will be spending years in prison and the criminal has won even if you shoot him/her dead. In the justice system we have set up today committing a crime is a win win situation for the criminal.

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berettabone, I take it you are speaking from just your feelings. I hate to hurt your feelings, but you don't make logical argument and have nothing to back up your claim. Packerfan and Grapeshot sort of....like....blow your argument out of the water.

There is no evidence that OC makes you MORE of a target than OCing.


Packer fan....I disagree with your last statement. If the criminal is dead...I don't thing they win.

Grapeshot said:

You repeat an old, worn out, old wives tale. OC does not make you a target of opportunity - more to the point OCing makes a great "I'm not an easy victim" statement.

You say that it (gun) "stays in in my front pocket" therefore you are CCing. Have you any depth of experience OCing or are just repeating a false dogma indicative of no practical knowledge and with no basis in fact?

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Not only does OC make the carrier safer, it makes everybody around them safer~~ There just are no statistics that crimes are committed in the presence of a LAC OCing.

Grapeshot said:

You repeat an old, worn out, old wives tale. OC does not make you a target of opportunity - more to the point OCing makes a great "I'm not an easy victim" statement.

You say that it (gun) "stays in in my front pocket" therefore you are CCing. Have you any depth of experience OCing or are just repeating a false dogma indicative of no practical knowledge and with no basis in fact?

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. First of all, FYI, I carry both ways....Second, this is an opinion blog...if you don't agree with other people's opinions, go to a cooking blog...you can disagree without putting your head in your......third...I belong to a gun club and have been to many ranges in my time, and know, that half the people out there talk a big game, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn......fourth....not all criminals are leps, some are professionals.....I would pity the day, if you were standing in a bank, or some other business that was being robbed by a professional or professionals.......they see YOU with a firearm at your side, and they will shoot you without hesitation right between your eyes before you could even think about drawing your weapon. I am not ripping OC'ing at all, I just take all situations into consideration. Do you have any depth of experience having a firearm pointed at you? If you do, I bow to your superiority, if not, think first before you talk. I have seen alot of OC'ers that talk alot, but they talk better than they shoot.

Depends on the criminal.

Like others have said, most criminals want an easy target. If they know someone is going to be armed when going into a conflict, they'll wait till the armed citizen is gone. When looking for a mugging target, they'll look for someone that's not going to put up a fight.

But then there's the other type of criminal: the "professional" robber that goes in armed with accomplices and is going to get the job done no matter what. Thankfully, most of those only exist in hollywood.

I'm sure there exists the extremely rare "pro" criminal in the real world, but their numbers aren't enough to even matter.

So no, I think that the deterrence factor is more significant than being made a target.

SovereignAxe said:

Depends on the criminal.

Like others have said, most criminals want an easy target. If they know someone is going to be armed when going into a conflict, they'll wait till the armed citizen is gone. When looking for a mugging target, they'll look for someone that's not going to put up a fight.

But then there's the other type of criminal: the "professional" robber that goes in armed with accomplices and is going to get the job done no matter what. Thankfully, most of those only exist in hollywood.

I'm sure there exists the extremely rare "pro" criminal in the real world, but their numbers aren't enough to even matter.

So no, I think that the deterrence factor is more significant than being made a target.

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I see you come from a large city(pop. 64,000) come on up to a large city(pop. 500,000) lots more "professionals" than you'd think, and a lot of them just don't care...see you with a firearm, and they'll just shoot you for the hell of it.

berettabone said:

. First of all, FYI, I carry both ways....Second, this is an opinion blog...if you don't agree with other people's opinions, go to a cooking blog...you can disagree without putting your head in your......third...I belong to a gun club and have been to many ranges in my time, and know, that half the people out there talk a big game, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn......fourth....not all criminals are leps, some are professionals.....I would pity the day, if you were standing in a bank, or some other business that was being robbed by a professional or professionals.......they see YOU with a firearm at your side, and they will shoot you without hesitation right between your eyes before you could even think about drawing your weapon. I am not ripping OC'ing at all, I just take all situations into consideration. Do you have any depth of experience having a firearm pointed at you? If you do, I bow to your superiority, if not, think first before you talk. I have seen alot of OC'ers that talk alot, but they talk better than they shoot.

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Oh Please!!!! I beg you to document these instances of OCers being shot without hesitation because they OC'd. :lol:

No offense intended....but are you out of middle school yet? :uhoh:

Professional criminals are the ones who do not get caught, and they don't get caught because they don't go around shooting people, and they avoid people who could ruin their day. Anybody with a double digit IQ can figure that out, unless the two digits are to the right of the decimal point.