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Thread: Open carry inside the waistband?

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    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    Open carry inside the waistband?

    If you have a iwb holster with your shirt tucked in is this still considered open carry? I'm confused on how much of the gun needs to be visible in order for it to be OC.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Colorado doesn't say how much of a gun needs to be visible in order for it not be considered concealed (which is illegal, w/o a permit)...but generally, if others can easily see enough of the gun to recognize it as a gun then you're not concealing and therefor, OCing.

    You should be just fine to OC with a IWB as long you keep your shirt tucked behind the gun. The IWB holster doesn't hide more of the gun than a "standard" holster...you're just concealing your holster by wearing it inside the waistband, not your gun.
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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    Colorado doesn't say how much of a gun needs to be visible in order for it not be considered concealed (which is illegal, w/o a permit)...but generally, if others can easily see enough of the gun to recognize it as a gun then you're not concealing and therefor, OCing.

    You should be just fine to OC with a IWB as long you keep your shirt tucked behind the gun. The IWB holster doesn't hide more of the gun than a "standard" holster...you're just concealing your holster by wearing it inside the waistband, not your gun.
    My atty was telling me about a case in Colorado he defended where it was charged the firearm was concealed even in a standard holster. The case was won, but it cost.. His basic defense was "did you recognize it as a pistol" .. yep.. win... BUT.. his advice to me has always been, if I am going to OC, make sure it's outside the waistband in a standard holster.

    Up to you I suppose, but I don't want to 'test the waters' .. =)

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Not that this applies to all of colorado, but Parker ordinance 8.09.010 defines "concealment" this way"

    "Concealment means the deliberate hiding of a weapon upon or near the person with the intent to avoid the lawful detection thereof. It shall be evidence of concealment that the weapon is hidden so as to make it immediately available for use in the fashion in which the weapon is designed to be used."

    So, I'd take that as a case by case deal. Personally. I'm certainly no expert, but i would bet it's all about how much of the gun is showing and whether it "looks" like you are trying to hide it.

    Told you I was reading all the ordinances I could find.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Told you I was reading all the ordinances I could find.
    Howdy Again Amigo!
    Doesn't matter. ordinances are trumped by Colorado Revised Statutes.
    Preemption. Local ordinances are not relevant when preempted, so don't fret it.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porterhouse83 View Post
    If you have a iwb holster with your shirt tucked in is this still considered open carry? I'm confused on how much of the gun needs to be visible in order for it to be OC.
    As Far as I'm aware as long as its noticeable and easy to recognize as a weapon that its open, But expect to get a HUGE amount of hell for having it like that depending on what part you live in. Up to but no limited to illegal detainment and possibly a pretty good sized citation if the officer that stops you decided that to him its Concealed without a permit. LEO in Colorado are mostly really laid back from what Ive had as personal encounters, but if you give them a reason to suspect your trying to bend laws to your liking expect them to get a bit fussy after all alot of what goes down on the streets is at the officers discretion. In my opinion, if you want your handgun "concealed" get a CHP if you want to open carry, Open carry with Pride, Stand tall with your holster and sidearm presented Correctly and for everyone to see. it all boils down to opinion, Yes its legal to have your weapon like that if most of it is open and able to know its a handgun, but its the officers opinion if you are breaking the CCW laws not ours of course really its the Judges decision but you wont be getting stopped by a judge. Stay safe, and if you want my advice i would file for a CHP license just to have as a backup if anyone wants to tell you anything on the way you carry.

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Again Amigo!
    Doesn't matter. ordinances are trumped by Colorado Revised Statutes.
    Preemption. Local ordinances are not relevant when preempted, so don't fret it.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Totally agree, my post wasn't intended to be the final definition of the term. More just an example of what one place uses to define concealed. My guess is, their definition was probably based on the State's definition largely. I just used that one because I had literally JUST read it.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    As Far as I'm aware as long as its noticeable and easy to recognize as a weapon that its open, But expect to get a HUGE amount of hell for having it like that depending on what part you live in. Up to but no limited to illegal detainment and possibly a pretty good sized citation if the officer that stops you decided that to him its Concealed without a permit. LEO in Colorado are mostly really laid back from what Ive had as personal encounters, but if you give them a reason to suspect your trying to bend laws to your liking expect them to get a bit fussy after all alot of what goes down on the streets is at the officers discretion. In my opinion, if you want your handgun "concealed" get a CHP if you want to open carry, Open carry with Pride, Stand tall with your holster and sidearm presented Correctly and for everyone to see. it all boils down to opinion, Yes its legal to have your weapon like that if most of it is open and able to know its a handgun, but its the officers opinion if you are breaking the CCW laws not ours of course really its the Judges decision but you wont be getting stopped by a judge. Stay safe, and if you want my advice i would file for a CHP license just to have as a backup if anyone wants to tell you anything on the way you carry.

    Semper-Fi
    ~Wolf~
    On the one hand, I do see your point. My experience with Colorado LEO is quite different, and don't believe the folks here in Colorado Springs would be so petty.

    On the other hand, if an LEO ever approached me about concealing via an IWB holster, I'd say, "Sir, the very fact that you recognized it as a firearm is prima facia evidence it is not concealed." If he proceeded to write up a ticket anyway, I'd let him put pen to paper then produce my CHP and ask him, "What's all the writing about?"
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    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    on the one hand, i do see your point. My experience with colorado leo is quite different, and don't believe the folks here in colorado springs would be so petty.

    On the other hand, if an leo ever approached me about concealing via an iwb holster, i'd say, "sir, the very fact that you recognized it as a firearm is prima facia evidence it is not concealed." if he proceeded to write up a ticket anyway, i'd let him put pen to paper then produce my chp and ask him, "what's all the writing about?"
    lol!

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    On the one hand, I do see your point. My experience with Colorado LEO is quite different, and don't believe the folks here in Colorado Springs would be so petty.

    On the other hand, if an LEO ever approached me about concealing via an IWB holster, I'd say, "Sir, the very fact that you recognized it as a firearm is prima facia evidence it is not concealed." If he proceeded to write up a ticket anyway, I'd let him put pen to paper then produce my CHP and ask him, "What's all the writing about?"
    If you have a CHP thats fine. but if you don't expect some trouble is all I'm saying. its not as black and white on the streets with 5 officers surrounding you for "officer safety" as it is on a forum where you can say anything you want without it being used against you in court. all I'm saying is if you want to "half conceal" your handgun there may be a officer, a judge, a jury, that doesn't find that very... well lawful. This is not talking about a lawful CHP holder I'm talking the same people that "Mexican carry" as there Open carry method in the middle of walmart with 100 kids running around and every felon in town walking around. side point, he doesn't say hes a CHP holder actually doesn't even mention it, and I'm no stalker looking thru the past 100 posts or nothing. so basically yes you can tell the cop "whats all the writing for" and he will more than likely tell you something along the lines as the same thing they tell you when you walk up and a traffic cop is writing the ticket or when you fail to have registration insurance or your license on you that he has already started writing the ticket, that if you have a CHP, license, registration, that you can take that to court and more than likely have it thrown out, but the fact is hes already writing out a summon, ticket, whatever it may be, and just because you presented your CHP AFTER the fact wont change that he already is issuing a ticket for whatever. Maybe when he asked if your a CHP holder give it to him or at least verify that you are one, instead of getting the ticket and having to deal with a bunch of **** because the city wants to make themselves some money. I'm no lawyer, and i know that I'm more than likely going to get some **** for what i say, but i really don't care. Use some logic, think about the situation and what all can, and more than likely will happen, then think.. hmm you could prevent it in a couple diff ways, don't give officers reason to suspect anything at all, anything in there mind can give them RAS including you may not be a CHP holder and that gives them right to check your stuff and check you out in there opinion. Just like any gang banger walking with a limp to them can be construed as there walking funny so they must have a long rifle in there pant legs or whatever they think. point is leo are out to mess with any and all law abiding citizens, why give them more wood for the fire?

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    "Mexican carry"?

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    "Mexican carry"?
    Carrying a weapon inside the waistband of pants without a holster, sorry thats what its called around here, not sure if theres a technical word for it. other than stupid ha ha.

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    Does anyone successfully carry that way? I tried once into a gas station and ended up walking back to my car holding the seat of my pants like I deuced them. Maybe it's just my scrawny waist and lack of a butt inhibited it.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Ha thats awesome! im sure it can be done right but like you said im small i dont think i could pull it off either.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    I recently returned to Colorado from an extended stay in Texas where CONCEALED is the order of the day.

    When in Texas I routinely carry a BLACK Glock 23 in a BLACK Desantis Pro-Stealth IWB kydex holster without a thumb-break , against and under a BLACK background, and an over-hanging "flap" of a BLACK golf shirt. I can assure you that under the Class A misdemeanor penalty provided under CURRENT Texas law - IT IS CONCEALED.

    When I cross from Texline into New Mexico - the "flap" of the BLACK golf shirt is neatly tucked in.

    When I descend Raton Pass, and stop at the first Shell station in Trinidad, CO - the BLACK golf shirt was replaced by a non-BLACK & contrasting colored golf shirt, and the Desantis Pro-Stealth was replaced by my much preferred Colorado rig of a TAN Don Hume (w/thumb-break) IWB holster.

    Transition was sufficient to ensure that the Glock 23 was now clearly not concealed.

    I have three really nice retention OWB belt holsters, but I rarely wear them because they protrude, and interfere with my arm swing when walking.

    My PERSONAL preference is to carry openly - but "discreetly". That's why I like IWB holsters.

    Just take necessary steps to augment "display".
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 06-01-2012 at 10:19 PM.

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    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    Open carried iwb today no problem with the new glock. I just make sure my shirt is tucked behind the holster so it is not covering any part of the gun handle.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porterhouse83 View Post
    Open carried iwb today no problem with the new glock. I just make sure my shirt is tucked behind the holster so it is not covering any part of the gun handle.
    good to hear! keep on keepin on!

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    "Mexican carry"?
    I think you're looking for the term, "Virginia tuck."

    Virginians used to have to OC when entering a bar. So those that CCed would have to perform the "Virginia tuck" or disarm to stay legal.
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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    I think you're looking for the term, "Virginia tuck."

    Virginians used to have to OC when entering a bar. So those that CCed would have to perform the "Virginia tuck" or disarm to stay legal.
    Ah haha thats a nice little peice of info, thanks for that! ya thats a good term for it too suprised i never heard that one before.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    I think you're looking for the term, "Virginia tuck."

    Virginians used to have to OC when entering a bar. So those that CCed would have to perform the "Virginia tuck" or disarm to stay legal.
    Not always when entering a bar, only if they intend to inbibe.

    And it's not used to... they still does.

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