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Cite help

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Need a cite for casino carry. I cant remember if its ok to CC in to Indian casinos or the ones in detroit. Tried search feature and it was not very helpful. Any help (like always) is apprecated.

You can't have firearms on casinos under the state gaming laws (Detroit casinos.) Indian casinos are NOT under state control in regards to the gaming laws. BUT they can ban firearms.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Dr. Todd posted this on this site.

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o.


(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:


(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.


and:


ABOUT NATIVE AMERICAN CASINOS
Native American tribes are sovereign nations. As such, the State of Michigan does not have general regulatory authority over Indian casinos, although the State does have oversight authority over compliance with the State-Tribal Compact provisions. They are regulated by the National Indian Gaming Commission and the government of the appropriate tribal community.
--http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,4620,...2858--,00.html


NA casinos, are not under regulation of the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226 and are therefore, in my personal, non-lawyer opinion, not a pfz. I would cc or oc there as I wished. But, since this is not legal advice, YOU may wish to consult with an attorney before doing so. Additionally, I have found nothing to indicate that they have in any way banned firearms; I looked at their compact and have searched their tribal website. Also, I believe that even if there were a rule regarding this, Trespass might be the most likely outcome if asked to leave and you didn't.


 

fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
921
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA
Dr. Todd posted this on this site.

28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o.


(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:


(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.


and:


ABOUT NATIVE AMERICAN CASINOS
Native American tribes are sovereign nations. As such, the State of Michigan does not have general regulatory authority over Indian casinos, although the State does have oversight authority over compliance with the State-Tribal Compact provisions. They are regulated by the National Indian Gaming Commission and the government of the appropriate tribal community.
--http://www.michigan.gov/mgcb/0,4620,...2858--,00.html


NA casinos, are not under regulation of the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226 and are therefore, in my personal, non-lawyer opinion, not a pfz. I would cc or oc there as I wished. But, since this is not legal advice, YOU may wish to consult with an attorney before doing so. Additionally, I have found nothing to indicate that they have in any way banned firearms; I looked at their compact and have searched their tribal website. Also, I believe that even if there were a rule regarding this, Trespass might be the most likely outcome if asked to leave and you didn't.



Does this mean that the charity poker rooms are PFZ?
 

WilDChilD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
286
Location
Dewitt, Michigan, USA
My question started because of a post MGO.

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=180734&page=2

Farmer Dan said:
I've worked with Indian Gaming since 1989, I can't quote/cite any laws or copy and paste anything off the internet. But I can tell you what I have seen happen with my own two eyes. Get caught with a gun and you'll get a free ride to Grand Rapids for court a appearance.

What do people think? How trustable are the Farmers eyes?
 

WilDChilD

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
286
Location
Dewitt, Michigan, USA
Don't know how I helped but you're welcome!

This is why I thanked you. Gave you credit in the post also.

As taught on a video made for CPL classes and the MSP website guns are banned from casinos in Michigan. This is only partially true. Under the concealed carry act where guns are prohibited it does not even mention casinos.


28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

(c) A sports arena or stadium.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.


(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

(g) A hospital.

(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.




The law that they are trying to refer to is the administrative rules made by the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which gets its authority from the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act (MGCRA). The board made this administrative rule:


R 432.1212 Weapons in casino.
Rule 212. (1) An individual may not carry a firearm or other weapon in a casino, except for the following entities:
(a) State, county, city, township, or village law enforcement officers, as defined in section 2(e) of Act No. 203 of the Public Acts of 1965, as amended, being § 28.601 et seq. of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(b) Federal law enforcement officers, as defined in 5 U.S.C. § 8331.
(c) Armored car personnel picking up or delivering currency at secured areas.
(2) Law enforcement officers conducting official duties within a casino shall, to the extent practicable, advise the Michigan state police gaming section of their presence.
(3) Private casino security personnel may carry handcuffs while on duty in a casino.







The MGCRA gives definitions for the act. One is “casino”. Casino is defined as “a building in which gaming is conducted.” This definition should not be confused with what is considered a “casino enterprise”. A “casino enterprise” is defined as “the buildings, facilities, or rooms functionally or physically connected to a casino, including but not limited to any bar, restaurant, hotel, cocktail lounge, retail establishment, or arena or any other facility located in a city under the control of a casino licensee or affiliated company.”



Looking at this one would think this would apply to all casinos in Michigan. This is incorrect. The Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue act only applies to three privately owned casinos within the city of Detroit and the Michigan Gaming Control Board to oversee/regulate those casinos. Since other casinos in Michigan are tribal and not controlled under the MGCRA, 432.1212 does not apply to them and the tribes are able to make their own laws regarding guns in their casinos or on tribal land in general.


Native American casinos, just like private property, are not covered under state preemption, and may restrict the carry or possession of firearms in the casino or on their premises (including parking lots). Violating their rule may cause a person to be charged with trespassing.
 

Shadow Bear

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
1,004
Location
Grand Rapids
What about tribal law? Since they're sovereign nations on US soil, can they establish ordinances covering firearm possession on tribal property? (beyond trespassing?)
 
Last edited:

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
Does this mean that the charity poker rooms are PFZ?

I don't know is it inside one of the 3 privately owned casinos in Detroit? Is it listed under 28.425o? If not then CC and OC is legal with a CPL. If it's not one of the 3 privately owned casinos or listed under 750.234d then OC without a CPL is legal.
 

MI_XD

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
88
Location
SW Michigan
Carry in Mt Pleasant Casino

Talking to a friend of ours who is a federal detective working with the tribal police in Mt Pleasant, if they find you carrying at the casino there, they will "request" that it be returned to your vehicle. This was just an informal conversation, and has not been confirmed by any actual event. :)
 

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
Talking to a friend of ours who is a federal detective working with the tribal police in Mt Pleasant, if they find you carrying at the casino there, they will "request" that it be returned to your vehicle. This was just an informal conversation, and has not been confirmed by any actual event. :)

If you decline there "request" will they elevate to a demand? If that is the case it was never really a " request" in the first place.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
If you decline there "request" will they elevate to a demand? If that is the case it was never really a " request" in the first place.

Just like any private property.

I have oc'd at the Williamsburg casino hotel and chose to cc in the actual casino. This was a few years ago, though. My reasoning revolved more around "situational" awareness than any other concern. I just could see myself getting caught up in my playing the slots and have someone attempt to take my pistol. I did get some stares while oc in the hotel, but no one approached me about it.
 

MI_XD

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
88
Location
SW Michigan
If you decline there "request" will they elevate to a demand? If that is the case it was never really a " request" in the first place.

That was why the quotes on request... They give you the chance to take it to the vehicle instead of immediately slappng on the cuffs.
Yes, I guess that would be like any other private property.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
That was why the quotes on request... They give you the chance to take it to the vehicle instead of immediately slappng on the cuffs.
Yes, I guess that would be like any other private property.

Most tribal police officers are "cross-deputized" by the county sheriff for the county in which the casino is found... if the tribal officers have been trained/certified by MCOLES. If you refuse to leave, they would have the power to enforce the state trespassing statute under the authority of the sheriff.
 
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