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Thread: Alamosa Summerfest/ No Guns WTF?? help me out this just sounds wrong? Somewhat urgent

  1. #1
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Alamosa Summerfest/ No Guns WTF?? help me out this just sounds wrong? Somewhat urgent

    Alright so in todays Valley Courier our local news paper they ran a article about the upcomeing event in alamosa, i wish i could have found the article online to copy paste here but since i couldnt im going to haveto type out the entire thing, so here we go.

    ALAMOSA- Dogs are not welcome at this years summerfest on the rio, but Alamosa police department is providing the opportunity for city residents to legally register mans best friend. On Saturday June 2, the APD will have a representative at the festival from 10am to 5pm for dog owners to register their pet as required per city ordinance, According to an Alamosa police department press release. the representative will be stationed at the E911/Crimestoppers both within cole park. Thouse wishing to register their dogs this weekend are only required to bring proof of current rabies vacinations and proof of spayed or neutered if applicable. dog registrat is 2$ if the dog is spayed or neutered and 10$ if not. the penalty for not registering your dog is 75$ for first offence. "there is a surprisingly low number of dogs registered in the city" APD deputy chief of police Robert Jackson said. In addition to dogs, Weapons and bicycles will not be permitted. Last year, a few festivalgoers brought guns to the family event. "There were a few instances of people walking the park with a sidearm" Jackson said. "Although its not illegal, it is problematic. and it makes people nervious" He said that people who violate the festivals Request would be asked to leave the event" "we are not going to arrest them" Jackson said. "People openly carrying a gun will be asked to leave or at least conceal their weapon" The APD will also be utilizing and enforcement of underage drinking grant at the festival "We have one officer that will be dedicated to checking ID's" Jackson said. "The servers have been well trained, but we will be watchful and checking" A minor in possession of alcohol charge results in a summons to the city court, a 70$ court cost, and average fines of $100-$200 fo a first offence. "and if your under 18 you will haveto appear with your parents" Jackson added "that is not pretty"

    So basically they don't care if its our right, they are "asking" people to give up there rights, and if not they will kick you off public park property. help me out please? anyone have any idea what to do? what can be done? I'm thinking I'm going to have to show up camera in one hand and Open carrying and just see what will happen to my rights, although i already know whats going to happen. Please anyone help? maybe wanna come down and attend the event together? its mega short notice i know, and thats why they waited until today to write the article so its too late for most anyone to do anything about it. I'm overlooking the fact there making us register dogs just like they want us to register our guns, but are they going to be paying for the registration, no. are they going to be giving free CHP so you can "conceal" it? no they are just going to violate our rights because they can. This valley sucks because there isn't enough OCer's to make a difference. I'm overly frustrated that again they can turn around and make any temp ordinances they feel might make people more comfortable, what about the fact that if I'm not OCing i am not safe nor comfortable, does that matter? no only that the Sheeple are comfortable. Anyone with any ideas help me out please!? thanks for your time.

    Semper-Fi

    ~Wolf!

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    OH and sorry its quite a read for a friday afternoon but i would appreciate any ideas at all on the subject. thank you all again.

    ~Wolf~

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    If it's being held on private property they can do ask you to do anything they like.

    If it's on public property by local ordinance they can prohibit OC, but only if there's a local ordnance -- they can't just pull a "No OC" rule out of thin air. But they cannot prohibit CC in any case outside of a building.

    Assuming that there's no local ordinance, this is how things would likely unfold despite how wrong it may be:

    You OC or CC (and it's spotted) to the event. The police will (not based upon any law) ask you to leave. If you don't you'll probably be arrested for creating a disturbance, despite the fact that the folks who started the "disturbance" were the police.

    The unfortunate question that it always comes down to is how much time and money do you have to prove you're right?

    O2

    Ps. I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so YMMV.
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 06-02-2012 at 01:40 AM.
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    If it's being held on private property they can do ask you to do anything they like.

    If it's on public property by local ordnance they can prohibit OC, but only if there's a local ordnance -- they can't just pull a "No OC" rule out of thin air. But they cannot prohibit CC in any case outside of a building.

    Assuming that there's no local ordnance, this is how things would likely unfold despite how wrong it may be:

    You OC or CC (and it's spotted) to the event. The police will (not based upon any law) ask you to leave. If you don't you'll probably be arrested for creating a disturbance, despite the fact that the folks who started the "disturbance" were the police.

    The unfortunate question that it always comes down to is how much time and money do you have to prove you're right?

    O2

    Ps. I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so YMMV.
    HA i didnt stay at one last night either, maybe we can find someone that has. but no there is no ordinance as to no firearms, they pulled it out for just this event, the area is normally fully allowed to have firearms, just for the event they dont want them there. so basicly they created a no guns just for this event. of course if i go they will ask me to leave and ill leave thats not what im worried about i know how things are going to go down. they fact is can they really legally do that? its a public park so ya its ran by the city i suppose so i suppose they can enact a ban of weapons on there property but doesnt that haveto be a all the time thing not just whenever they feel like you shouldnt have a sidearm they can say you cant carry? i just dont get how this works with the preemtion in colorado among other things. out right to bare arms should not be questioned, then why oh why are they questioning it? thanks for your time!

    Semper Fi
    ~Wolf~

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    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    oh i tried to spell check but darn thing keeps tellin me i cant.

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    [the] fact is can they really legally do that?
    Short answer: No. They could ban OC with a local ordanance but that's all they're empowerd to do. To see a very similar discussion about petty dictators making up rules, see this thread: State Fairgrounds.

    O2

    Ps. This is why Colorado needs legislation that prohibits local authorities from confiscating firearms during a state of emergency (a la Katrina).

    I’m sure the person who's violating their oath of office (and the police enforcing it that are violating theirs) with the idea of banning firearms for this event would reach the same conclusion in a state of emergency.
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 06-01-2012 at 05:35 PM.
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Did I misread this or are they only saying no OC? It seems CC is fine. That isn't exactly anti-gun. "People openly carrying a gun will be asked to leave or at least conceal their weapon." Personally, I would have no problem with this. I prefer to CC in a crowd anyway.But then, I carry a gun for personal defense, not to make a statement, whether open or concealed.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  8. #8
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Did I misread this or are they only saying no OC? It seems CC is fine. That isn't exactly anti-gun. "People openly carrying a gun will be asked to leave or at least conceal their weapon." Personally, I would have no problem with this. I prefer to CC in a crowd anyway.But then, I carry a gun for personal defense, not to make a statement, whether open or concealed.
    as do i carry for protection, i dont have the cash to spend on a class that happens once every 3 or so months around here thats charging 150 bucks for the class not includeing all the fun stuff or id have my CHP by now, but my point is, if you have been in any part of Co. right now its pretty hot, and basicly i dont want to haveto wear a giant shirt even if i did have my CHP. its not how you carry it its that you CAN carry it by law. they refer to C.R.S. 18-9-117 as what they use as there ordinance if you look it up its basicly disruption in public ill paste the statute below.

    18-9-117. Unlawful conduct on public property. (1) It is unlawful for any person to enter or remain in any public building or on any public property or to conduct himself or herself in or on the same in violation of any order, rule, or regulation concerning any matter prescribed in this subsection (1), limiting or prohibiting the use or activities or conduct in such public building or on such public property, issued by any officer or agency having the power of control, management, or supervision of the building or property. In addition to any authority granted by any other law, each such officer or agency may adopt such orders, rules, or regulations as are reasonably necessary for the administration, protection, and maintenance of such public buildings and property, specifically, orders, rules, and regulations upon the following matters:



    (c) Prohibition of activities or conduct within public buildings or on public property which may be reasonably expected to substantially interfere with the use and enjoyment of such places by others or which may constitute a general nuisance or which may interfere with, impair, or disrupt a funeral or funeral procession;



    (3) (a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b) paragraphs (b) and (c) of this subsection (3), any person who violates subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.



    (c) Any person who violates any order, rule, or regulation adopted pursuant to paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of this section concerning funerals or funeral processions is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    If the right to keep & bear arms guaranteed by Article 2, Section 13 of the Colorado Constititution is to be suspended in favor of the the State granted PRIVILEGE of permitted concealed carry - Alamosa needs to get busy preparing, and POSTING "No Display of Firearms" signs - assuming this no display "DECREE" only applies to municiplal facilities, not public sidewalks, or private premises.

    Probably not a good venue for "open carry' - anymore than Wuerst Fest in New Branufels, Texas - but Alamosa should check out the State law - not just invoke "POLICE POWER" in order to placate their whims.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 06-01-2012 at 08:00 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    If the right to keep & bear arms guaranteed by Article 2, Section 13 of the Colorado Constititution is to be suspended in favor of the the State granted PRIVILEGE of permitted concealed carry - Alamosa needs to get busy preparing, and POSTING "No Display of Firearms" signs - assuming this no display "DECREE" only applies to municiplal facilities, not public sidewalks, or private premises.

    Probably not a good venue for "open carry' - anymore than Wuerst Fest in New Branufels, Texas - but Alamosa should check out the State law - not just invoke "POLICE POWER" in order to placate their whims.
    Agreed, and maybe just maybe they should do more to let people know that they are going to be invoking "police power" than just a quick article the day before in the local newspaper when really this is a valley wide thing and A lot more tourists than they think show up and will now be turned away from giving my community cash because they cant carry legally either. I sure hope they put up no open carry allowed signage on all entrances and exits to the park also to let people know before they just start harassing people about it in the middle of the park with there family's watching near by. oh and heres the kicker, not complaining because i love me some beer, but the park sign they already have up says no alcohol allowed per the city ordinance i posted previously and yet they will have two big Budweiser tents in the middle of the park selling alcohol in public on city grounds where it already has signs that say its not allowed, there allowing them to violate city ordinance but don't want us to exercise our right to bare arms. again not complaining about the beer just stating the facts. Thanks for your time

    Semper-Fi
    ~Wolf~

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    snipped...
    In addition to dogs, Weapons and bicycles will not be permitted. Last year, a few festivalgoers brought guns to the family event. "There were a few instances of people walking the park with a sidearm" Jackson said. "Although its not illegal, it is problematic. and it makes people nervious" He said that people who violate the festivals Request would be asked to leave the event" "we are not going to arrest them" Jackson said. "People openly carrying a gun will be asked to leave or at least conceal their weapon"
    The first part of your answer lies in the question itself. "Jackson said, 'athough its not illegal...'" He admits that carrying openly is not against the law. Police cannot enforce laws that aint.
    He then says, "We are not going to arrest them." Of course you won't. You can't. It's a law that aint.
    "They will be asked to leave." Here gets tricky as I see it. I don't know how you can be accused of tresspassing on public grounds (refusing to leave). On the other hand, sure they can ask you to leave... can they order you to?
    They also cannot legally ask you to cover it up. (unless they know that you have a permit) That's called entrapment. (I personally am not going to volunteer whether I have a permit or not)


    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf
    So basically they don't care if its our right, they are "asking" people to give up there rights...
    Yep. That's basically all they can do. How many rights are simply given up when requested?
    Just like they do at a traffic stop. "While I've got you here, do you mind if I search your car...?"



    I don't always like to screw with cops; but when I do, I prefer to consult with an attorney.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    O Holy Crack...

    Alamosa ordinances:
    Sec. 11-120. - Deadly weapons, liquor establishments.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, without legal authority, to carry, conceal or display a deadly weapon on the premises of any establishment where malt, vinous or spirituous liquors are sold for consumption on the premises.
    (Ord. No. 8, 2011, 1, 7-6-11)

    So, if they are erecting tents and declaring a "beer garden," through the use of a permitting system to override the "no alchohol in parks"

    um...

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    I'd ask to see the specific ordinance that prohibits open carry at this event. If they were to ask you to cover up your sidearm, and you haven't got a permit, they'd be ordering you to break the law. Asking you to leave is their right, but as I see it, an unenforcable one. That does not mean they won't try. I haven't seen anything in the OP's original post indicating any alcohol will be consumed at the park, so that may be a moot point.

    Meanwhile, back at the "asking you to leave" part....
    The officer is quoted as saying "it isn't illegal".
    If you go, bring that article along with you to show an officer what his superior said.
    That, and his statement nobody would be arrested for open carrying.

    You have a constitutional right to carry your firearm. That right, according to article 2, section 13, shall not be called into question.
    You might bring that along with you too.
    The constitution says nothing about whether nervous people have a superior right to infringe upon your right to carry.
    They may freely exercise their right to be needlessly nervous, but that should not prohibit you from exercising your right to carry.
    I believe that I'd ask the nice officer to coach those nervous folks about how they should not be any more apprehensive about a law abiding citizen carrying a sidearm than they are when police officers do so. Their sidearm is no different from yours in the ability it possesses. If they'd educate the citizen about your rights rather than attempting to infringe upon your rights, they'd spend much less time being sued in courts of law.

    Speaking of which, that may be something to investigate. After all, you are being denied equal rights under law... a violation of your civil liberties.
    Because you don't have a permit to conceal carry a handgun, you must, in order to comply with law, open carry as your only option for self defense.
    But if you do so, they'll ask you to leave. You are denied access to a public event on public property that others enjoy simply by exercising your rights under law.
    I think it might be actionable, but coming up with a retainer might not be in your budget. I get that from your remark about not having money enough to take a course of training and pay for permit costs. Ergo, you are being denied your equal treatment rights under law in complete contrast to your rights under the constitution of the United States and the State of Colorado.

    Since you cannot afford a legal fight, I have another suggestion:
    Contact your local political types. Find out who they are, and contact your local state senator and local state representative to insist they step in to prohibit wholesale demand for abidication of constitutional rights by the local PD. It might not hurt to speak with your federal congressional representative and senator for your district. Demand that they step in to uphold your Constitutional rights as a citizen of Colorado and address the issue through the powers of their offices.

    Meanwhile, thanks to the newspaper article, any criminal contemplating a mass murder spree can look to that event as a ready victim pool ripe for the plucking. Should that sort of thing happen, it can be noted that they published information stating they'd ask open carriers to leave the place of the event. I cannot even begin to imagine the potential toll in lives lost, not to mention the subsequent liability suits that would surely come down the pike.

    You might also consider a "letter to the editor" of the same newspaper stating that the event itself is anti-Constitution, anti-citizen's rights, and anti-law

    Finally, in closing, you might also contact the Attorney General of the State of Colorado to complain that local law enforcement has stated clearly their intent to infringe upon your Constitutional rights. Natrually, you'd want to provide the AG with the specific quotes from the local PD that state their intention to usurp, through abuse of power, your liberty.

    Hope something I've said here may prove helpful or at least make a shred of sense.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  14. #14
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Folks!
    I'd ask to see the specific ordinance that prohibits open carry at this event. If they were to ask you to cover up your sidearm, and you haven't got a permit, they'd be ordering you to break the law. Asking you to leave is their right, but as I see it, an unenforcable one. That does not mean they won't try. I haven't seen anything in the OP's original post indicating any alcohol will be consumed at the park, so that may be a moot point.

    Meanwhile, back at the "asking you to leave" part....
    The officer is quoted as saying "it isn't illegal".
    If you go, bring that article along with you to show an officer what his superior said.
    That, and his statement nobody would be arrested for open carrying.

    You have a constitutional right to carry your firearm. That right, according to article 2, section 13, shall not be called into question.
    You might bring that along with you too.
    The constitution says nothing about whether nervous people have a superior right to infringe upon your right to carry.
    They may freely exercise their right to be needlessly nervous, but that should not prohibit you from exercising your right to carry.
    I believe that I'd ask the nice officer to coach those nervous folks about how they should not be any more apprehensive about a law abiding citizen carrying a sidearm than they are when police officers do so. Their sidearm is no different from yours in the ability it possesses. If they'd educate the citizen about your rights rather than attempting to infringe upon your rights, they'd spend much less time being sued in courts of law.

    Speaking of which, that may be something to investigate. After all, you are being denied equal rights under law... a violation of your civil liberties.
    Because you don't have a permit to conceal carry a handgun, you must, in order to comply with law, open carry as your only option for self defense.
    But if you do so, they'll ask you to leave. You are denied access to a public event on public property that others enjoy simply by exercising your rights under law.
    I think it might be actionable, but coming up with a retainer might not be in your budget. I get that from your remark about not having money enough to take a course of training and pay for permit costs. Ergo, you are being denied your equal treatment rights under law in complete contrast to your rights under the constitution of the United States and the State of Colorado.

    Since you cannot afford a legal fight, I have another suggestion:
    Contact your local political types. Find out who they are, and contact your local state senator and local state representative to insist they step in to prohibit wholesale demand for abidication of constitutional rights by the local PD. It might not hurt to speak with your federal congressional representative and senator for your district. Demand that they step in to uphold your Constitutional rights as a citizen of Colorado and address the issue through the powers of their offices.

    Meanwhile, thanks to the newspaper article, any criminal contemplating a mass murder spree can look to that event as a ready victim pool ripe for the plucking. Should that sort of thing happen, it can be noted that they published information stating they'd ask open carriers to leave the place of the event. I cannot even begin to imagine the potential toll in lives lost, not to mention the subsequent liability suits that would surely come down the pike.

    You might also consider a "letter to the editor" of the same newspaper stating that the event itself is anti-Constitution, anti-citizen's rights, and anti-law

    Finally, in closing, you might also contact the Attorney General of the State of Colorado to complain that local law enforcement has stated clearly their intent to infringe upon your Constitutional rights. Natrually, you'd want to provide the AG with the specific quotes from the local PD that state their intention to usurp, through abuse of power, your liberty.

    Hope something I've said here may prove helpful or at least make a shred of sense.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Everything you said is helpful for sure. They will be breaking there own laws and having the beer garden in the middle of the park where it says its prohibited, I'm sure they gave out "here break our law licenses" I'm going to try to enjoy myself at the event today, and will be bringing along both a copy of the article along with my copy of our Rights. As you said I'm a bit low on funds so it would be hard to have a case but I'm going to be looking into it and see what and how much it will cost and whatnot, i have wrote the editor telling him the entire story and what is wrong with the article he said he would be looking into it. as for our senate and whatnot i will be sending letters out to our Representatives soon to make them aware that this is happening. The thing about not being able to attend the CHP is not lack of money i am saving cash just for that, but its that he only holds one class every 3 months so there all full and a giant waiting list as long as i am tall. so its a bit rough to get in his classes, which are not even NRA certified. but i digress, As far as seeing the ordinance i would love nothing more than to show you it, but as far as all my searching they do not have a ordinance in which they can ban open carry in Alamosa County. I find it funny myself that the Deputy Chief is so contradicting Saying basically its not against the law yet you cant do it and were going to harass you because you do. also that they would put a giant notice to Bad guys that they have a perfect target, i hate to think what would happen being they kicked all the lawful gun owners off the property and the Police themselves have no obligation to protect you. Ill let you all know how it goes. and thanks again for all the great advice! Stay Safe!

    Semper-Fi
    ~Wolf~

  15. #15
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin
    Howdy Folks!
    I'd ask to see the specific ordinance that prohibits open carry at this event. If they were to ask you to cover up your sidearm, and you haven't got a permit, they'd be ordering you to break the law. Asking you to leave is their right, but as I see it, an unenforcable one. That does not mean they won't try. I haven't seen anything in the OP's original post indicating any alcohol will be consumed at the park, so that may be a moot point.
    M-T, it's not in the original one it's a couple down, I put it here for ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    ...oh and heres the kicker, not complaining because i love me some beer, but the park sign they already have up says no alcohol allowed per the city ordinance i posted previously and yet they will have two big Budweiser tents in the middle of the park selling alcohol in public on city grounds where it already has signs that say its not allowed, there allowing them to violate city ordinance but don't want us to exercise our right to bare arms. again not complaining about the beer just stating the facts. Thanks for your time

  16. #16
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    I wonder what other constitutionally guaranteed rights of citizenship might be "problematic", or make people "nervous" ? Political, or religious speech ?

    Also - this may have been already mentioned , but I thought the phrase "...people that VIOLATE the festival's REQUEST will be ASKED to leave the event." Highly unusual language- the word VIOLATE used in conjunction with the word REQUEST. I believe the words HONOR, REFUSE, or IGNORE pretty much comprise the known universe of available responses to any REQUEST.

    I suppose if a person selects REFUSE, or IGNORE - they risk a DISORDERLY CONDUCT charge - for being "rude" to the festival.

    Since Colorado law requires posting of "No Display" signs at entrances there must be something "problematic" about doing just that ?
    _______________
    OOOPS... I had an after-burp. Coloradoans are being "encouraged" , or perhaps more accurately, being nudged into obtaining CHP's. This would resemble the trend in state's like Texas, and Oklahoma towards licensing of handgun carry.

    By "REQUESTING" that Coloradoans not exercise the Article 2, Sec. 13 RIGHT OF CITIZENSHIP it is hoped that eventually that right will be voluntarily de facto surrendered as it has in other states.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 06-02-2012 at 01:47 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Well of course as expected i was stopped and Asked to leave, i asked the officer who was alright for being a LEO why they can do that or what ordinance they are using to enforce the no display of weapon ordinance and he said that, since a private owner "rented" the park he or she is allowed to make that rule because it is there property at the time, same reason they can sell liquor in the park where posted signage says its prohibited. in other words if we had enough money pooled together anyone can "rent" the park and make any kind of rules they want, no entrance unless you take off your shoes, wear a silly clown wig, will be asked to leave if they are not armed. so on and so forth. He was "nice" about it all, but kept interrupting me when i was trying to talk and ask questions, his partner however had his hand near his side arm the entire time staring me down as if i was a threat. of course since Colorado is a stop and ID state they requested my id which i asked if I'm required and he said i am, which i already knew. ran it of course no problems and was told that i can go lock up the sidearm and return that i was not "trespassed" from the property. Basically ya they just Raped my rights, and i really couldn't do much about it. told me to take it up with City Works about who was the private renter and thats about it, no you have to conceal that no nothing just drove up on a motor vehicle (an ATV) which is also prohibited in the park and told me "You have to leave with that" with a attitude until i turned and he saw the camera pointing right at his face, then his tune changed real fast. You all stay safe and have a great weekend.

    Semper-Fi
    ~Wolf~

  18. #18
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    O Holy Crack...

    Alamosa ordinances:
    Sec. 11-120. - Deadly weapons, liquor establishments.

    It shall be unlawful for any person, without legal authority, to carry, conceal or display a deadly weapon on the premises of any establishment where malt, vinous or spirituous liquors are sold for consumption on the premises.
    (Ord. No. 8, 2011, 1, 7-6-11)

    So, if they are erecting tents and declaring a "beer garden," through the use of a permitting system to override the "no alchohol in parks"

    um...
    Non-starter. Full state preemption for CC which is "legal authority." The ordinance means nothing if you have a CCW. If private property wants to post no guns, period. Fine. But no town can without metal detectors at every entrance on town owned property.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  19. #19
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneEchoWolf View Post
    Well of course as expected i was stopped and Asked to leave, i asked the officer who was alright for being a LEO why they can do that or what ordinance they are using to enforce the no display of weapon ordinance and he said that, since a private owner "rented" the park he or she is allowed to make that rule because it is there property at the time, same reason they can sell liquor in the park where posted signage says its prohibited. in other words if we had enough money pooled together anyone can "rent" the park and make any kind of rules they want, no entrance unless you take off your shoes, wear a silly clown wig, will be asked to leave if they are not armed. so on and so forth. He was "nice" about it all, but kept interrupting me when i was trying to talk and ask questions, his partner however had his hand near his side arm the entire time staring me down as if i was a threat. of course since Colorado is a stop and ID state they requested my id which i asked if I'm required and he said i am, which i already knew. ran it of course no problems and was told that i can go lock up the sidearm and return that i was not "trespassed" from the property. Basically ya they just Raped my rights, and i really couldn't do much about it. told me to take it up with City Works about who was the private renter and thats about it, no you have to conceal that no nothing just drove up on a motor vehicle (an ATV) which is also prohibited in the park and told me "You have to leave with that" with a attitude until i turned and he saw the camera pointing right at his face, then his tune changed real fast. You all stay safe and have a great weekend.

    Semper-Fi
    ~Wolf~
    Colorado is NOT a stop and ID state unless RAS exists. You can simply state your name and what town/city you live in. You have no obligation to 'show' ID unless being detained under Terry v OH.

    16-3-103. Stopping of suspect. (1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions. A peace officer shall not require any person who is stopped pursuant to this section to produce or divulge such person's social security number. The stopping shall not constitute an arrest.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 06-04-2012 at 01:24 PM.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  20. #20
    Regular Member LoneEchoWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    Colorado is NOT a stop and ID state unless RAS exists. You can simply state your name and what town/city you live in. You have no obligation to 'show' ID unless being detained under Terry v OH.

    16-3-103. Stopping of suspect. (1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions. A peace officer shall not require any person who is stopped pursuant to this section to produce or divulge such person's social security number. The stopping shall not constitute an arrest.
    thanks for the Cite. ill keep that in mind next time, somehow i forgot it at the time.

  21. #21
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The technicalities of various state laws notwithstanding if I am armed when contacted by a LEO
    I PERSONALLY will cooperated 100 percent with what I consider to be "reasonable" requests due to the fact that the prevailing disposition of LE is to ascertain ASAP whether or not an armed individual poses a threat to the general public , or themselves.

    That way both the LEO, and myself can be on our merry way ASAP.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    The technicalities of various state laws notwithstanding if I am armed when contacted by a LEO
    I PERSONALLY will cooperated 100 percent with what I consider to be "reasonable" requests due to the fact that the prevailing disposition of LE is to ascertain ASAP whether or not an armed individual poses a threat to the general public , or themselves.

    That way both the LEO, and myself can be on our merry way ASAP.
    I will cooperate 100% with legal requests. In CO, absent RAS, any contact is consensual only.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    +1. You can win more bears over with honey than with vinegar.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  24. #24
    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    +1. You can win more bears over with honey than with vinegar.
    That's what my grandfather used to say all the time. I agree!

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