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Thread: Anti 2A gun shops

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Anti 2A gun shops

    Just curious if it's common nation wide for gun shops to have posted signs stating no one is allowed to OC or CC inside?

    It seems most of the shops in my area have these.
    I recently had a conversation with one of the RSO and NRA certified class instructors over at Peacemaker National Training Center here in WV.
    He asked me if I had thought of becoming a member, considering all the time my son and I spend at the range. We had a nice conversation in which I told him that if they decided to take the anti 2A signs off the door (no OC or CC guns allowed unless you were a RSO) I would certainly consider it but not before. We talked for quite a while but in the end his point was people in general cannot be trusted to handle firearms except under direct supervision. I pointed out that he himself gives CCW classes that people use to go get their license to CC. He told me I should volunteer to RSO some time so I could watch the stupid way people handle their firearms. They don't want the liability.

    I saw the sames signs at Valley Guns II the few times I was there. (haven't been there in a LONG time, not friendly people)

    Anyway are most gun shops around the country the way they seem to be here in WV?

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    I find it in a lot of shops.

    Many people are risk avoiders at all cost. Rather than applying risk management techniques (which would tell you an unhandled, holstered and/or concealed firearm CANNOT hurt anyone) they apply avoidance, thinking that "no guns" equals "no accidents".

    And you can talk until you're blue in the face; it won't change things.

    The range I shoot at has a no-loaded-firearms policy, but it's convenient to go there, whereas I wouldn't go as often if it wasn't nearby. However, when I want to buy something, I go to a different dealer who doesn't have that policy.

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    Its easy to fix, don't go to such places. I've never seen such a thing. The closest is the Gander Mountain sign that indicates firearms should be secured at the door, with an exemption for lawfully carried SD weapons that remain in the holster.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    In Texas, I frequently see signs which purport to prohibit loaded and/or uncased firearms. But the way our law reads, carried (concealed only in this state) are only prohibited if certain language is used - they always use different language to allow licensed, concealed carry, without saying it. Only those who know the law understand which signs are meaningful. It is a trick that works for us. In an open carry state, without requirements for specially worded signs, I'm not sure how you would sort people. The "special sign" requirement makes a "no guns" sign analogous to a sign which reads "if you don't have a license for that thing, don't carry it here".

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough carry prohibitions seem to be more common in locally-owned small shops. Big chains like Gander Mountain and Cabelas are VERY OC/CC friendly.

    I think it is insurance companies and lawyers that are causing this. They tell these small business owners that they need to post or they might be liable is some fumble-fingered yuck-a-puck "accidentally" shoots someone in their store. Most of the owners I've talked to in small, locally-pwned stores that are posted are VERY pro-2A, and have told me that it's because of insurance.

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    I don't believe that gun shops/ranges really want to have anti- 2A policies with regard to carry. But between the insurance companies they must use and the lowest-common-denominator-of-stupid customer/gun owner that occasionally walks in and causes a problem, sometimes such rules are what the rest of us are stuck with.

    The range I go to has BIG signs on and next to the front doors which state to the effect of 'If the gun isn't in a holster, case, or box, don't bring it in. And do not handle uncased firearms without permission.' I get there once a week or so and in four years there have been three (I think) incidents concurrent with my visits in which guns were brought inside from the lot uncased and without the action open. Wasn't me who had to take corrective action, dunno if any of them turned out to be loaded.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Off hand, I can't recall any gun shop I have ever visited that had such a sign posted.
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    Those shops don't bother so much. What DOES, is when you walk in and the employees are carrying loaded holstered weapons! That burns my toast! Who the hell said they are more capable at being in charge of a loaded weapon than me and how do I know? It is the same principle to not let the public come in carrying. I have seen and talked to some real MORONS (employees) at gun shops.

  9. #9
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merc460 View Post
    Those shops don't bother so much. What DOES, is when you walk in and the employees are carrying loaded holstered weapons! That burns my toast! Who the hell said they are more capable at being in charge of a loaded weapon than me and how do I know? It is the same principle to not let the public come in carrying. I have seen and talked to some real MORONS (employees) at gun shops.
    Yeah right there with you. The RSOs at National Peacemeaker Training Center in Gerrardstown, WV quite often carry holstered sidearms... It's kinda a slap in the face. They are pretty convenient to me but I've been giving more of my business to 340 Defense in Rippon, WV. Certainly NPTC won't be getting my membership, members aren't even permitted to OC/CC, until they replace their signs with something like this:

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    Never seen such a thing here in Utah. Out of the 4 or 5 gun shops I frequent semi-regularly, I have never had a problem OCing. The closest I came was with a shotgun I had taken in to get their opinion on a malfunction. There was an employee who seemed to follow me around the store the whole time, despite the shotgun being in a case, and them knowing it wasn't functioning. Then again, I could have misinterpreted what was going on.

    I imagine in my neck of the woods such a policy would severely impact their business. People around here care deeply for their 2a rights, which are well protected by our state constitution and related laws. We quickly identify those places that restrict our rights, and actively boycott them. This might not be a problem for some businesses, but when your clientele is largely the people who care, it can have a significant impact.
    Last edited by gobbly; 06-02-2012 at 09:51 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    Many people are risk avoiders at all cost. Rather than applying risk management techniques (which would tell you an unhandled, holstered and/or concealed firearm CANNOT hurt anyone) they apply avoidance, thinking that "no guns" equals "no accidents".
    A lot of these policies are set by either the lawyers, or the insurance companies. "Oh, you own a gun store! Ok, in order to insure your company, our underwriters require you to post 'No Firearms' signs at all entrances to your firearms-riddled store..."
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  12. #12
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    A lot of these policies are set by either the lawyers, or the insurance companies. "Oh, you own a gun store! Ok, in order to insure your company, our underwriters require you to post 'No Firearms' signs at all entrances to your firearms-riddled store..."
    That's a plausible point that others have also brought up but it doesn't seem to be universal since lots of gun shops (not in my area) don't have the signs. The range I was referring to certainly never hinted that as a reason for the signs but that doesn't exclude it.

  13. #13
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    There is a gun shop right next to me that will only sell certain LEGAL items to LEO only. Items like hollow points and body armor.

    I never support shops like those. This one is owned by either current or former LEO.
    That's funny. When a buddy of mine told me about an FFL in my area I went on their website and saw this:

    "The Federal Government and several states have enacted gun control laws that restrict the public from owning and possessing certain types of firearms. Law-enforcement agencies are typically exempt from these restrictions. EFI, LLC does not recognize law-enforcement exemptions to local, state, and federal gun control laws. If a product that we manufacture is not legal for a private citizen to own in a jurisdiction, we will not sell that product to a law-enforcement agency in that jurisdiction."

    I was very impressed by it. Needless to say I hope to give them my business as much as possible.
    They are very cool people.

    If anyone is interested in anything they do I highly recommend them.

    http://www.extremefirepower.com

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    In WI, the only place that doesn't allow oc is bob and rocco gun shows.

    Not gun store related but the Wisconsin GOP passed a resolution stating they won't generally have events at places that do not allow firearms.

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  15. #15
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    ... the Wisconsin GOP passed a resolution stating they won't generally have events at places that do not allow firearms.
    Typical repugnant weasel-words, will not generally - but will particularly do what ever tickles their fancy parts.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Typical repugnant weasel-words, will not generally - but will particularly do what ever tickles their fancy parts.
    Yeah, unlike the democraps who are always pro-gun and pro- rights.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any signs of that type in Utah or Oregon. Pax...
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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    I find it in a lot of shops.

    Many people are risk avoiders at all cost. Rather than applying risk management techniques (which would tell you an unhandled, holstered and/or concealed firearm CANNOT hurt anyone) they apply avoidance, thinking that "no guns" equals "no accidents".

    And you can talk until you're blue in the face; it won't change things.

    The range I shoot at has a no-loaded-firearms policy, but it's convenient to go there, whereas I wouldn't go as often if it wasn't nearby. However, when I want to buy something, I go to a different dealer who doesn't have that policy.
    One of the ranges/shops near me has that rule. I've CC'd and OC'd there without unloading and no one ever says a thing. Why? Because they aren't looking to see who's in compliance with their rule. That's my opinion anyway.


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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys. It doesn't necessarily seem to be the norm in most areas and that's good to know.
    I'm hoping to find a closer place that isn't so anti 2A.

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal View Post
    One of the ranges/shops near me has that rule. I've CC'd and OC'd there without unloading and no one ever says a thing. Why? Because they aren't looking to see who's in compliance with their rule. That's my opinion anyway.


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    That's the place I was thinking of.

    I'll shoot there. But I'll BUY from Guns & Ammo Warehouse or from Dawson's (or Trader Jerry's).

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    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    In WI, the only place that doesn't allow oc is bob and rocco gun shows.
    That's not entirely accurate.

    I was informed by management at Shooter's in Caledonia that if I wanted to OC within the store, I needed to remove the magazine and leave the slide locked back so they knew it was unloaded - or I needed to cover up. Though I fail to see how a properly holstered firearm poses some sort of risk, I didn't argue - their house; their rules. But he explained to me that they were concerned about liability and, at the time, had a ND (in the range area) the week before. OC on the range itself is fine. I've also heard rumors (haven't confirmed personally) that the The Shooters Shop in West Allis is posted with a gun buster sign. I haven't been to Brew City Shooter's Supply (formerly Badger Guns) in quite a while, so I'm not sure what their stance is.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    That's the place I was thinking of.

    I'll shoot there. But I'll BUY from Guns & Ammo Warehouse or from Dawson's (or Trader Jerry's).
    Same here but mainly cause they're stuff is just over blown pricing.



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  23. #23
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    the two stores that i have close to me said "hell ya you can carry, it would be silly for us to sell guns and you not be able to carry it". one of them told me he likes too see someone carrying, 'cause what if i was being robbed and you walked in". there was one store that had a no carry policy and i complained about it and with help from others they took it down
    i have not went to a VCDL event because they would not let me carry there.

    and i don't want to hear anymore of this "insurance thing", if that was the case they all would not allow carry because they all have to have insurance

    look at it this way if i am not safe carrying self defense in their store, then i am not safe to carry anywhere, and neither are YOU


    don't support any gun store that does not allow your self defense, but also let them know why you would not go to them and that you would tell any of your friends not to go there. give them a NO GUN=NO $ cards., and put them on a un-friendly list. main thing is to have action
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    look at it this way if i am not safe carrying self defense in their store, then i am not safe to carry anywhere, and neither are YOU


    don't support any gun store that does not allow your self defense, but also let them know why you would not go to them and that you would tell any of your friends not to go there. give them a NO GUN=NO $ cards., and put them on a un-friendly list. main thing is to have action

    +1


  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    i have not went to a VCDL event because they would not let me carry there.
    Maybe it's the lack of grammar and punctuation, but I seriously don't understand when a VCDL event might have been held where you were unable to carry.

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