Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: How far out do you practice your handgun work?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278

    How far out do you practice your handgun work?

    Now, we all have heard that the majority of shooting occur within approximately 18ft. But what about those potentially long-shots?

    I was thinking about this the past two days. What triggered it was the POS that went on a shooting spree here in Seattle. He shot seven individuals, then himself. (six of the seven are dead).

    I reade an article where a woman described happening to be sitting in her car, and hearing one of the victims scream for "help." It seemed by the article, the woman was not more than fifty feet or-so away.

    So I get this picture in my head: I'm stopped in traffic. I hear a woman screaming "help." I look out the passenger-side window, and see a man standing over a woman, stomping on her, then pulls out a handgun, steadies his hand, and shoots her in the face.

    Now, I'm just being an armchair quarter-back here. It doesn't seem too difficult to assess a situation like that.--a man standing over a woman, stomping on her, then pulling a gun out.

    Three questions:

    (1) Do you practice shooting your carry gun out to a hundred feet?

    (2) Would you shoot someone from a hundred feet away that was obviously beating, robbing, and reading to shoot a person in the face?

    (3) what is a reasonable distance we ought to be proficient at shooting our carry guns out to?

    Personally, if I had assessed the situation to be imminently a threat to the woman's safety and life, had the time to act, and was confident in my shot out to a hundred feet, I would have draw, and pulled the trigger. I would have a difficult time sitting there watching something like that play out when it was possible that I could intervene.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 06-02-2012 at 01:40 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  2. #2
    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Rockingham, NC
    Posts
    298
    I sure as heck wouldn't take a shot on someone from 100'. Yeah, I feel like I could easily hit a paper target at that distance, but I'd never risk missing and hitting someone else. If I felt like my intervention would be justified, I'd move to close the distance before engaging.

    Edit: meant to type 100' not 50'
    Last edited by Medic1210; 06-02-2012 at 02:23 PM.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    I practice out to the full length my arms can extend.

    As for shooting at a VCA* doing something to someone 50 or 100 feet away? Nope, No Way, No How, Not Gonna Happen.

    If the person getting their face shot is someone I have a legal obligation towards or an intimate relationship with such that I would voluntarily attempt to defend them, I would close the distance. For someone who my only connection to is a sense of moral obligation, Nope, No Way, No How, Not Gonna Happen unless and not until I can verify to my satisfaction that the VCA shooting their face is in fact a VCA and the person whose face is gettig shot is truely and totally innocent. If I can do both those things I'd close the distance first.

    But more than likely for something happening 100 feet, or even 50 feet away to someone I do not have a legal obligation towards or an intimate relationship with such that I would voluntarily attempt to defend them, I'm more inclined to call 9-1-1 and be the best witness I can be. I'd probably yell out that I have called 9-1-1 and that the supposed VCA should stop shooting the face of the other person.

    In the time that it would take even a healthy and fit person (let alone an elderly cripple who is mobility impaired) to close the distance all the damage would probably have been done. And since even an "expert" shot is going to have a less-than 100% perfect hit rate against a moving target, trying for the distance shot has its own set of problems and baggage to make me say No How No Way Not Gonna Happen.

    YMMV.

    And this is why we kick around scenarios - so that the cowboy aspects can be exposed and the risks enumerated before anybody goes around making absolute assertions about what they would or would not do.

    stay safe.

    * VCA = Violent Criminal Actor. IMHO a better term than BG.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    This will sound a bit cold.

    In that circumstance, I find it highly unlikely that I could KNOW for a certainty what was going on between the two strangers, enough to shoot one of them. Likely, only after the deadly shot would I know.

    In reality, I would probably be trying to console myself that I wish she had been armed, too.

    In IDPA, the majority of our stages are designed with short distances, just like real street circumstances. But we do occasionally have the longer shots. At the 2009 NV State IDPA Championships, we had a stage with a couple 40-yard targets. I did fairly well with my everyday-carry Kimber .45 1911. Only after the day, did people start complaining about how poorly they did and finally, that stage was removed from official scoring, dropping the standings of those of us who stay prepared for that kind of scenario.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
    Regular Member Mark 1911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Munster, IN
    Posts
    94
    When I shoot outdoors, I shoot at a 25 yard range (75 feet). When I shoot indoors, I shoot at a 50 foot range where you can adjust the target placement anywhere you want. I shoot at the outdoor range a lot more than the indoor range. Last summer I went up to Minnesota to take a class for their permit application process. They qualify at 21 feet. I am so used to practicing at 75 feet that to me, 21 feet was a piece of cake.

    My theory is if you practice at 50 or 75 feet until you can keep most of your shoots in the black, then you will be all the better in a short range encounter. I understand that shooting at a piece of paper is not the same as being attacked by a living breathing threat, but at least you will have one criterion mastered.
    Last edited by Mark 1911; 06-02-2012 at 05:26 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    140
    25 Yards.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by jhco50 View Post
    25 Yards.
    Indeed. I'll practice out to 25-,but not sure I'd actually be comfortable taking a combat shot, with a sidearm, out to that distance. At least not by choice, if I had a long-gun or shotgun at hand to use instead.
    My location/situation is a bit different than most folks, I think- but- my property is almost exactly 25Y from my front porch to my front fence/gate.
    There is also the potential to have to engage someone firing at me (rifle/shotgun) who is just off-property- slightly past that 25Yard mark. (has already happened here, when my dog was killed to stop it from barking/warning me of the impending home-invasion attempt) So I often try to practice out to 40yards.

    It's why I've been debating a couple of other options, long-gun wise. (Shotgun/slugs/pistol-cal. carbine/big bore rifle) to have handy for the longer shots.

    One thing to consider also- in long-shots vs. close-in shots, is timing. The closer the target is to you, the less time you have to acquire the target and engage it.
    So, sometimes, close-range shots can actually be more difficult (under duress) than some longer shots.

  8. #8
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southsider der hey
    Posts
    1,320
    At the indoor range I go to, I usually practice at 25 yards also. My thinking is if I can accuratly hit a target at 25 yards, then 3 wont be a problem. During a recent firearms safety class I took, the instructor spoke about the rule of 3. He stated most defensive "firefights" happen with in 3 yards (or less), last 3 seconds or less and have 3 or less shots fired.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  9. #9
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Practice point shooting, it saves the time wasted aiming. Shooting beyond threat ranges beggars the meaning of defensive.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 06-04-2012 at 08:45 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southsider der hey
    Posts
    1,320
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Practice point shooting, it saves the time wasted aiming. Shooting beyond threat ranges beggars the meaning of defensive.
    Take this scenario for example. You are walking down a deserted street, its dark and the only light is from the few street lamps. You see a mean looking dog running toward you with a machete (one of those gang dogs, you know ~ The ones that carry machete's). Do you;
    A. Run like he11 knowing the dog can easily catch up to you.
    B. Wait until the fast moving animal is with in the 3 yards you have practiced with.
    C. Take aim and with your sidearm and shoot eliminate the threat before the machete wielding gang dog leaps at you?

    I should have said I do practice some longer range shooting, but I do also practice at the closer ranges. I do not limit myself to any strict genre of range. Its good to have other experiences working for you.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    .... I do not limit myself to any strict genre of range. Its good to have other experiences working for you.
    Perhaps you confused "threat ranges" with some version of "21 feet or less"?

    Good point shooters can get consistent "combat effective" groups out at 50 feet or more - so long as the paper target is not moving about. Some of the best are strong proponents of using the patrol rifle when the target is more than +/- 10 yards away, is moving erratically (as opposed to standing still), or requires a high-precision shot.

    Since I do not carry a patrol rifle, I have decided that in the situation where there is another person in close proximity to the person I have decided needs shooting, I will close the distance as much as possible to increase the likelihood that my shot will be made with the precision needed. Obviously mileage rates vary between me and some others.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Practice point shooting, it saves the time wasted aiming. Shooting beyond threat ranges beggars the meaning of defensive.
    One small problem with that theory- the idea that all threats are going to be within some "typical" range.
    A guy shooting at you from 300m is STILL a guy shooting AT u, and in need of some return fires.

  13. #13
    Herr Heckler Koch
    Guest
    Among the elements of common law self-defense is, in a word, use sufficient force only to deliver oneself from evil. At some distance force applied with a self-defense pistol is insufficient to deliver from evil.

  14. #14
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southsider der hey
    Posts
    1,320
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Since I do not carry a patrol rifle, I have decided that in the situation where there is another person in close proximity to the person I have decided needs shooting, I will close the distance as much as possible to increase the likelihood that my shot will be made with the precision needed. Obviously mileage rates vary between me and some others.
    stay safe.
    This is my point. Since its not practical to carry a rifle all the time one should be familiar enough with their sidearm to know what it may do at some distance. A practiced marksman should be able to maintain control from a multitude of ranges in order to be proficient. There are times that may require a longer distance shot that you may not be able to close distance on. I would rather know what my and my sidearms limits are than to find out when you need it.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  15. #15
    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Rockingham, NC
    Posts
    298
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    One small problem with that theory- the idea that all threats are going to be within some "typical" range.
    A guy shooting at you from 300m is STILL a guy shooting AT u, and in need of some return fires.
    Wow, there's a realistic scenario... Especially considering he's talking point shooting with a handgun. Besides, if someone is shooting at you at 300m, you're most likely not even going to know where they are in the first place unless they're some moron standing in the middle of an open field wearing bright colors.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Lurchiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Shawano,WI.
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    Wow, there's a realistic scenario... Especially considering he's talking point shooting with a handgun. Besides, if someone is shooting at you at 300m, you're most likely not even going to know where they are in the first place unless they're some moron standing in the middle of an open field wearing bright colors.
    Until I either have enough meat, or the buffalo just quit tipping over; usually right around 732 ft. ...give or take a century or 2
    Bale da Hay

    "Have you Spanked a leftist today; it's the Right thing to do!!!"


    Within the gates before a man shall go,
    (Fully warily let him watch,)
    Full long let him look about him;
    For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
    And sit in the seats within.

    Havamal (Bellows translation)

  17. #17
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    I sure as heck wouldn't take a shot on someone from 100'. Yeah, I feel like I could easily hit a paper target at that distance, but I'd never risk missing and hitting someone else. If I felt like my intervention would be justified, I'd move to close the distance before engaging.

    Edit: meant to type 100' not 50'
    Ive made accurate shots at 100 yards using the .38 super cartridge. It was an IPSC "race" gun, but hell it did the job.

    I usually practice drawing and firing at or below 30 feet with my Sig's and Glocks.
    Last edited by Sig229; 06-04-2012 at 11:16 PM.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Regular Member Ironbar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Tigard, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    385
    Ooooo, I just love these "what if" threads! No end of entertainment!

    I suggest you start practicing with your pistol out to 100 feet! Because you never know if and when you're going to be bopping along and need to shoot someone from long distance, who's probably moving around a lot, and there are probably lots of things and people behind him that you don't want to shoot in case you miss!

    Ooodles of fun!

  19. #19
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Free, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    3,855
    I generally practice tactically at 8.5-10 yards. I target shoot out to 15, and do shoot 25 from time to time at a man sized target. I would have no problem shooting for real at that range either, as all of my hits are center mass. But the most likely scenario is 25-30 feet or less, so I concentrate at that range, two to center mass, one to the head.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  20. #20
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524
    I shoot to 25 feet range. Anything beyond that would probably not be considered self defense. As far as what Grape said about others being shot or shot at, I agree.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  21. #21
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironbar View Post
    Ooooo, I just love these "what if" threads! No end of entertainment!

    I suggest you start practicing with your pistol out to 100 feet! Because you never know if and when you're going to be bopping along and need to shoot someone from long distance, who's probably moving around a lot, and there are probably lots of things and people behind him that you don't want to shoot in case you miss!

    Ooodles of fun!
    I think it's wonderful that in your world such things aren't even a consideration.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I think it's wonderful that in your world such things aren't even a consideration.
    Lots of folks like that out there. We often call them "victims" , and for good reason.
    Just because something is not as likely to happen as something else, in no way rules out the chances of it's happening.
    A recent example?
    Im willing to be the homeless guy in Miami, never woke that day thinking he'd get his face chewed off by a naked, drug-crazed, Zombie. But guess what?
    But, most of the same type of folks would actually suggest u carry a 9mm as a primary defensive side-arm too, so....

    There's a valid reason it's called Natural Selection.
    Last edited by j4l; 06-05-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    [snippers]
    But, most of the same type of folks would actually suggest u carry a 9mm as a primary defensive side-arm too, so....

    [snippers]
    Hey buddy! That's a low-blow! I need the sixteen rounds; I'm a bad shot.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  24. #24
    Regular Member Ironbar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Tigard, Oregon, USA
    Posts
    385
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I think it's wonderful that in your world such things aren't even a consideration.
    Yeah, that big zooming sound you just heard BL was the joke going right over your head.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Hey buddy! That's a low-blow! I need the sixteen rounds; I'm a bad shot.
    Lol. , so then carry 2 x 8-round mags= problem solved

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •