How far out do you practice your handgun work?

Now, we all have heard that the majority of shooting occur within approximately 18ft. But what about those potentially long-shots?

I was thinking about this the past two days. What triggered it was the POS that went on a shooting spree here in Seattle. He shot seven individuals, then himself. (six of the seven are dead).

I reade an article where a woman described happening to be sitting in her car, and hearing one of the victims scream for "help." It seemed by the article, the woman was not more than fifty feet or-so away.

So I get this picture in my head: I'm stopped in traffic. I hear a woman screaming "help." I look out the passenger-side window, and see a man standing over a woman, stomping on her, then pulls out a handgun, steadies his hand, and shoots her in the face.

Now, I'm just being an armchair quarter-back here. It doesn't seem too difficult to assess a situation like that.--a man standing over a woman, stomping on her, then pulling a gun out.

Three questions:

(1) Do you practice shooting your carry gun out to a hundred feet?

(2) Would you shoot someone from a hundred feet away that was obviously beating, robbing, and reading to shoot a person in the face?

(3) what is a reasonable distance we ought to be proficient at shooting our carry guns out to?

Personally, if I had assessed the situation to be imminently a threat to the woman's safety and life, had the time to act, and was confident in my shot out to a hundred feet, I would have draw, and pulled the trigger. I would have a difficult time sitting there watching something like that play out when it was possible that I could intervene.

I sure as heck wouldn't take a shot on someone from 100'. Yeah, I feel like I could easily hit a paper target at that distance, but I'd never risk missing and hitting someone else. If I felt like my intervention would be justified, I'd move to close the distance before engaging.

Edit: meant to type 100' not 50'

I practice out to the full length my arms can extend.

As for shooting at a VCA* doing something to someone 50 or 100 feet away? Nope, No Way, No How, Not Gonna Happen.

If the person getting their face shot is someone I have a legal obligation towards or an intimate relationship with such that I would voluntarily attempt to defend them, I would close the distance. For someone who my only connection to is a sense of moral obligation, Nope, No Way, No How, Not Gonna Happen unless and not until I can verify to my satisfaction that the VCA shooting their face is in fact a VCA and the person whose face is gettig shot is truely and totally innocent. If I can do both those things I'd close the distance first.

But more than likely for something happening 100 feet, or even 50 feet away to someone I do not have a legal obligation towards or an intimate relationship with such that I would voluntarily attempt to defend them, I'm more inclined to call 9-1-1 and be the best witness I can be. I'd probably yell out that I have called 9-1-1 and that the supposed VCA should stop shooting the face of the other person.

In the time that it would take even a healthy and fit person (let alone an elderly cripple who is mobility impaired) to close the distance all the damage would probably have been done. And since even an "expert" shot is going to have a less-than 100% perfect hit rate against a moving target, trying for the distance shot has its own set of problems and baggage to make me say No How No Way Not Gonna Happen.

YMMV.

And this is why we kick around scenarios - so that the cowboy aspects can be exposed and the risks enumerated before anybody goes around making absolute assertions about what they would or would not do.

stay safe.

* VCA = Violent Criminal Actor. IMHO a better term than BG.

This will sound a bit cold.

In that circumstance, I find it highly unlikely that I could KNOW for a certainty what was going on between the two strangers, enough to shoot one of them. Likely, only after the deadly shot would I know.

In reality, I would probably be trying to console myself that I wish she had been armed, too.

In IDPA, the majority of our stages are designed with short distances, just like real street circumstances. But we do occasionally have the longer shots. At the 2009 NV State IDPA Championships, we had a stage with a couple 40-yard targets. I did fairly well with my everyday-carry Kimber .45 1911. Only after the day, did people start complaining about how poorly they did and finally, that stage was removed from official scoring, dropping the standings of those of us who stay prepared for that kind of scenario.

When I shoot outdoors, I shoot at a 25 yard range (75 feet). When I shoot indoors, I shoot at a 50 foot range where you can adjust the target placement anywhere you want. I shoot at the outdoor range a lot more than the indoor range. Last summer I went up to Minnesota to take a class for their permit application process. They qualify at 21 feet. I am so used to practicing at 75 feet that to me, 21 feet was a piece of cake.

My theory is if you practice at 50 or 75 feet until you can keep most of your shoots in the black, then you will be all the better in a short range encounter. I understand that shooting at a piece of paper is not the same as being attacked by a living breathing threat, but at least you will have one criterion mastered.

I usually only shoot out to about 20ft with my handgun

25 Yards.

jhco50 said:

25 Yards.

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Indeed. I'll practice out to 25-,but not sure I'd actually be comfortable taking a combat shot, with a sidearm, out to that distance. At least not by choice, if I had a long-gun or shotgun at hand to use instead.
My location/situation is a bit different than most folks, I think- but- my property is almost exactly 25Y from my front porch to my front fence/gate.
There is also the potential to have to engage someone firing at me (rifle/shotgun) who is just off-property- slightly past that 25Yard mark. (has already happened here, when my dog was killed to stop it from barking/warning me of the impending home-invasion attempt) So I often try to practice out to 40yards.

It's why I've been debating a couple of other options, long-gun wise. (Shotgun/slugs/pistol-cal. carbine/big bore rifle) to have handy for the longer shots.

One thing to consider also- in long-shots vs. close-in shots, is timing. The closer the target is to you, the less time you have to acquire the target and engage it.
So, sometimes, close-range shots can actually be more difficult (under duress) than some longer shots.

At the indoor range I go to, I usually practice at 25 yards also. My thinking is if I can accuratly hit a target at 25 yards, then 3 wont be a problem. During a recent firearms safety class I took, the instructor spoke about the rule of 3. He stated most defensive "firefights" happen with in 3 yards (or less), last 3 seconds or less and have 3 or less shots fired.

Practice point shooting, it saves the time wasted aiming. Shooting beyond threat ranges beggars the meaning of defensive.

Herr Heckler Koch said:

Practice point shooting, it saves the time wasted aiming. Shooting beyond threat ranges beggars the meaning of defensive.

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Take this scenario for example. You are walking down a deserted street, its dark and the only light is from the few street lamps. You see a mean looking dog running toward you with a machete (one of those gang dogs, you know ~ The ones that carry machete's). Do you;
A. Run like he11 knowing the dog can easily catch up to you.
B. Wait until the fast moving animal is with in the 3 yards you have practiced with.
C. Take aim and with your sidearm and shoot eliminate the threat before the machete wielding gang dog leaps at you?

I should have said I do practice some longer range shooting, but I do also practice at the closer ranges. I do not limit myself to any strict genre of range. Its good to have other experiences working for you.

bigdaddy1 said:

.... I do not limit myself to any strict genre of range. Its good to have other experiences working for you.

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Perhaps you confused "threat ranges" with some version of "21 feet or less"?

Good point shooters can get consistent "combat effective" groups out at 50 feet or more - so long as the paper target is not moving about. Some of the best are strong proponents of using the patrol rifle when the target is more than +/- 10 yards away, is moving erratically (as opposed to standing still), or requires a high-precision shot.

Since I do not carry a patrol rifle, I have decided that in the situation where there is another person in close proximity to the person I have decided needs shooting, I will close the distance as much as possible to increase the likelihood that my shot will be made with the precision needed. Obviously mileage rates vary between me and some others.

stay safe.

Herr Heckler Koch said:

Practice point shooting, it saves the time wasted aiming. Shooting beyond threat ranges beggars the meaning of defensive.

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One small problem with that theory- the idea that all threats are going to be within some "typical" range.
A guy shooting at you from 300m is STILL a guy shooting AT u, and in need of some return fires.

Among the elements of common law self-defense is, in a word, use sufficient force only to deliver oneself from evil. At some distance force applied with a self-defense pistol is insufficient to deliver from evil.

skidmark said:

Since I do not carry a patrol rifle, I have decided that in the situation where there is another person in close proximity to the person I have decided needs shooting, I will close the distance as much as possible to increase the likelihood that my shot will be made with the precision needed. Obviously mileage rates vary between me and some others.
stay safe.

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This is my point. Since its not practical to carry a rifle all the time one should be familiar enough with their sidearm to know what it may do at some distance. A practiced marksman should be able to maintain control from a multitude of ranges in order to be proficient. There are times that may require a longer distance shot that you may not be able to close distance on. I would rather know what my and my sidearms limits are than to find out when you need it.

j4l said:

One small problem with that theory- the idea that all threats are going to be within some "typical" range.
A guy shooting at you from 300m is STILL a guy shooting AT u, and in need of some return fires.

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Wow, there's a realistic scenario... Especially considering he's talking point shooting with a handgun. Besides, if someone is shooting at you at 300m, you're most likely not even going to know where they are in the first place unless they're some moron standing in the middle of an open field wearing bright colors.

Medic1210 said:

Wow, there's a realistic scenario... Especially considering he's talking point shooting with a handgun. Besides, if someone is shooting at you at 300m, you're most likely not even going to know where they are in the first place unless they're some moron standing in the middle of an open field wearing bright colors.

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Until I either have enough meat, or the buffalo just quit tipping over; usually right around 732 ft. ...give or take a century or 2

Medic1210 said:

I sure as heck wouldn't take a shot on someone from 100'. Yeah, I feel like I could easily hit a paper target at that distance, but I'd never risk missing and hitting someone else. If I felt like my intervention would be justified, I'd move to close the distance before engaging.

Edit: meant to type 100' not 50'

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Ive made accurate shots at 100 yards using the .38 super cartridge. It was an IPSC "race" gun, but hell it did the job.

I usually practice drawing and firing at or below 30 feet with my Sig's and Glocks.

Ooooo, I just love these "what if" threads! No end of entertainment!

I suggest you start practicing with your pistol out to 100 feet! Because you never know if and when you're going to be bopping along and need to shoot someone from long distance, who's probably moving around a lot, and there are probably lots of things and people behind him that you don't want to shoot in case you miss!

Ooodles of fun!

I generally practice tactically at 8.5-10 yards. I target shoot out to 15, and do shoot 25 from time to time at a man sized target. I would have no problem shooting for real at that range either, as all of my hits are center mass. But the most likely scenario is 25-30 feet or less, so I concentrate at that range, two to center mass, one to the head.