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Thread: How to end gun control in 4 easy steps.

  1. #1
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    How to end gun control in 4 easy steps.

    The thought occured to me with the Nationwide CCW reciprocity bill that we might have an oportunity to end, or rather override gun guntrol all to gather quitly under the rader, if it's played right with just 4 bills provided the polititions had a back bone:

    1: Nationwide CCW reciprocity. States must recognize all other permits (but you still must follow that states laws just like traditional reciprocity).
    2: Federal CCW. The feds issue there own CCW just like the states good for all Federal land (suck it D.C.). Since Nationwide CCW reciprocity is in place though all states must recognize the Federal license just as if it were issued by another state. (All states would still have there own permit process, and there should be no requirment at all to get the Federal license if you don't want it.) The Federal license should be free, good for life, and be issued if you can pass a NICS check with no other requirments, it should also be a NICS override, it should also have no carry free zones.
    3: Amend the NFA, and GCA to excempt those with the Federal CCW.
    4: Federal gun law preemption, no state can have strictor gun laws than the feds, however there should be no requirment whatsoever to have laws as strict (less strict, or none at all is fine), and the law should specificly say that, it should also have teeth, and penalize states, counties, and localities who do not comply.

    That's it. The free Federal CCW would allow carry in all states, and would be good for life, and since there is preemption and the federal license does not have no carry places, you could carry anywhere. Since it would be a NICS override, and exempt you from NFA, and GCA, they would no longer apply, and preemption would prevent the states from having any strictor laws.

    Since it's in 4 parts. and each part seems mild (except part 3) it could get past much media attention, and since it doesn't actual SAY that it repeals all gun laws (despite effectively doing it) politicians could get on board, and claim ignorance if called on it.

    You would just have to do one free NICS type form, and that would be it.

    What do you think? Underhanded enough to pass?

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    A much better idea

    How about we repeal about 100% of the gun laws in this country, enforce the second amendment as the only necessary gun law (enforced through the fourteenth amendment) and remove the enhanced penalties for use of a firearm in a crime. Any law which gives any branch of government the authority to issue a permit also gives them the authority to deny it.

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    Hell, why not get a Federal permit to exercise all our rights?

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    I thought the idea was to end gun control not add to it... federal permits to exercise rights!? that is adding to the problem.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Genius! I'll get right on that.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I prefer all four steps condense into the one envisioned by our Founding Fathers: "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed."

    If only judges and legislators weren't so illiterate!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I prefer all four steps condense into the one envisioned by our Founding Fathers: "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed."

    If only judges and legislators weren't so illiterate!
    +1!
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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    The thought occured to me with the Nationwide CCW reciprocity bill that we might have an oportunity to end, or rather override gun guntrol all to gather quitly under the rader, if it's played right with just 4 bills provided the polititions had a back bone:

    1: Nationwide CCW reciprocity. States must recognize all other permits (but you still must follow that states laws just like traditional reciprocity).
    2: Federal CCW. The feds issue there own CCW just like the states good for all Federal land (suck it D.C.). Since Nationwide CCW reciprocity is in place though all states must recognize the Federal license just as if it were issued by another state. (All states would still have there own permit process, and there should be no requirment at all to get the Federal license if you don't want it.) The Federal license should be free, good for life, and be issued if you can pass a NICS check with no other requirments, it should also be a NICS override, it should also have no carry free zones.
    3: Amend the NFA, and GCA to excempt those with the Federal CCW.
    4: Federal gun law preemption, no state can have strictor gun laws than the feds, however there should be no requirment whatsoever to have laws as strict (less strict, or none at all is fine), and the law should specificly say that, it should also have teeth, and penalize states, counties, and localities who do not comply.

    That's it. The free Federal CCW would allow carry in all states, and would be good for life, and since there is preemption and the federal license does not have no carry places, you could carry anywhere. Since it would be a NICS override, and exempt you from NFA, and GCA, they would no longer apply, and preemption would prevent the states from having any strictor laws.

    Since it's in 4 parts. and each part seems mild (except part 3) it could get past much media attention, and since it doesn't actual SAY that it repeals all gun laws (despite effectively doing it) politicians could get on board, and claim ignorance if called on it.

    You would just have to do one free NICS type form, and that would be it.

    What do you think? Underhanded enough to pass?


    Just one point.

    Federal permit = gun control.

    So how is your idea ending it?

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    A good thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    The thought occured to me with the Nationwide CCW reciprocity bill that we might have an oportunity to end, or rather override gun guntrol all to gather quitly under the rader, if it's played right with just 4 bills provided the polititions had a back bone:

    1: Nationwide CCW reciprocity. States must recognize all other permits (but you still must follow that states laws just like traditional reciprocity).
    2: Federal CCW. The feds issue there own CCW just like the states good for all Federal land (suck it D.C.). Since Nationwide CCW reciprocity is in place though all states must recognize the Federal license just as if it were issued by another state. (All states would still have there own permit process, and there should be no requirment at all to get the Federal license if you don't want it.) The Federal license should be free, good for life, and be issued if you can pass a NICS check with no other requirments, it should also be a NICS override, it should also have no carry free zones.
    3: Amend the NFA, and GCA to excempt those with the Federal CCW.
    4: Federal gun law preemption, no state can have strictor gun laws than the feds, however there should be no requirment whatsoever to have laws as strict (less strict, or none at all is fine), and the law should specificly say that, it should also have teeth, and penalize states, counties, and localities who do not comply.

    That's it. The free Federal CCW would allow carry in all states, and would be good for life, and since there is preemption and the federal license does not have no carry places, you could carry anywhere. Since it would be a NICS override, and exempt you from NFA, and GCA, they would no longer apply, and preemption would prevent the states from having any strictor laws.

    Since it's in 4 parts. and each part seems mild (except part 3) it could get past much media attention, and since it doesn't actual SAY that it repeals all gun laws (despite effectively doing it) politicians could get on board, and claim ignorance if called on it.

    You would just have to do one free NICS type form, and that would be it.

    What do you think? Underhanded enough to pass?
    Strategic thinking like this is good. We will have to work toward a restoration of the Constitution incrementally. I think that court decisions will be part of the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsgeek View Post
    How about we repeal about 100% of the gun laws in this country, enforce the second amendment as the only necessary gun law (enforced through the fourteenth amendment) and remove the enhanced penalties for use of a firearm in a crime. Any law which gives any branch of government the authority to issue a permit also gives them the authority to deny it.
    I agree, but politicians are gutless. I was attempting to come up with a way to slip under the radar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    I thought the idea was to end gun control not add to it... federal permits to exercise rights!? that is adding to the problem.
    I was thinking of a workaround. Basicly a federal shall issue non resident permit that over rides everything.

    It's not perfect but politicians are gutless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    Strategic thinking like this is good. We will have to work toward a restoration of the Constitution incrementally. I think that court decisions will be part of the process.
    That was my thinking.

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    Probably impossible anyway. Constitutionally, I don't think the Feds can impose rules like that on the states, unless they can come up with some excuse about it being "interstate commerce."
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Repeal the NFA '34, the GCA '68 and disband the BATFE and it's just about done.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    Probably impossible anyway. Constitutionally, I don't think the Feds can impose rules like that on the states, unless they can come up with some excuse about it being "interstate commerce."
    That's easy enough, not being able to carry in certain states would prevent some from engaging in interstate commerce, and having to navigate a patchwork of different gun laws would also interfere with interstate commerce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    That's easy enough, not being able to carry in certain states would prevent some from engaging in interstate commerce, and having to navigate a patchwork of different gun laws would also interfere with interstate commerce.

    So I ask again.

    Federal Permit = Gun Control.

    So how does your idea eliminate gun control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    I was thinking of a workaround. Basicly a federal shall issue non resident permit that over rides everything.

    It's not perfect but politicians are gutless.
    That is not a workaround. A workaround would be for the feds to elevate the 2nd to the status of other important rights, where it can't be denied and doesn't need a permit.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    So I ask again.

    Federal Permit = Gun Control.

    So how does your idea eliminate gun control?
    Because the feds don't currently issue one at all. The only way to carry on federal land like a National Park is through a state license, and some states won't issue them, and non resident licenses from other states cost money, and are not recognized in some states. Even if the state does issue it's own license it costs money.

    A free lifetime shall issue federal license with no restrictions combined with national reciprocity would mean free nationwide CCW for anyone who can pass a NICS check.

    Federal preemption would mean that states could not enact stricter laws than the feds (on carry, or any other gun issue), and since the Federal License does not include no carry places, and the states are preempted, it would mean no "gun free zones" for anyone.

    Since the license would also override NICS, GCA, and NFA (state laws would already be preempted) anyone with the license would in effect be immune from all gun control, all for a free one time 4473 type form.

    It's not ideal, I would prefer a total repeal, and that the feds, and states just followed the constitution, but they haven't done that for about 150 years, this is meant as a workaround for gutless politicians.

    Number 1 is already likely to pass.
    Number 2 could be sold as just a "national park license". or an "Illinois work around".
    Number 3 could with any luck be snuck in under the radar somewhere, maybe "unintentionally" as part of 2, or 4.
    Number 4 could be sold as both a pure pro gun bill, and interstate commerce, maybe attached to some transportation bill to eliminate the patch work of state, and local gun laws that impede interstate commerce, and install one standard, or rather a maximum of what is tolerated.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Miss Black Rifle Disease's Avatar
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    My two cents:

    I'm uncomfortable with the Federal Government having anything to do with gun laws pertaining to private ownership for lawful purpose. I think this should be left up to individual states to hash out. Open this can of worms more then it already is and things can get messy especially considering the POTUS abusing that position if he wanted stricter gun control. I'm not quite as paranoid over BO's intentions as some in the gun toting world are but I do feel if he had the authority he would enact some pretty restrictive gun control measures. So let's keep the feds out of gun regulation for the lawful possessor. It's bad enough we can no longer buy new F/A weapons and have to fill out pointless paperwork and endure long waits just to have MG's that are nearly 30 years old along with SBR's and suppressors.

    Last thing we need is MORE gun legislation when half the laws already on the books are contradictory, convoluted and restrict only people that want to lawfully and safely possess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Black Rifle Disease View Post
    My two cents:

    I'm uncomfortable with the Federal Government having anything to do with gun laws pertaining to private ownership for lawful purpose. I think this should be left up to individual states to hash out. Open this can of worms more then it already is and things can get messy especially considering the POTUS abusing that position if he wanted stricter gun control. I'm not quite as paranoid over BO's intentions as some in the gun toting world are but I do feel if he had the authority he would enact some pretty restrictive gun control measures. So let's keep the feds out of gun regulation for the lawful possessor. It's bad enough we can no longer buy new F/A weapons and have to fill out pointless paperwork and endure long waits just to have MG's that are nearly 30 years old along with SBR's and suppressors.

    Last thing we need is MORE gun legislation when half the laws already on the books are contradictory, convoluted and restrict only people that want to lawfully and safely possess.
    I agree, but the beauty of it is that preemption only works one way, the states could all have lesser, or even no gun laws, and if the feds went nazi, it would make no difference, the only thing that would happen would be the workaround wouldn't work, and we would be back to where we are now since the federal permit would be voluntary.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Black Rifle Disease View Post
    My two cents:

    I'm uncomfortable with the Federal Government having anything to do with gun laws pertaining to private ownership for lawful purpose. I think this should be left up to individual states to hash out. Open this can of worms more then it already is and things can get messy especially considering the POTUS abusing that position if he wanted stricter gun control. I'm not quite as paranoid over BO's intentions as some in the gun toting world are but I do feel if he had the authority he would enact some pretty restrictive gun control measures. So let's keep the feds out of gun regulation for the lawful possessor. It's bad enough we can no longer buy new F/A weapons and have to fill out pointless paperwork and endure long waits just to have MG's that are nearly 30 years old along with SBR's and suppressors.

    Last thing we need is MORE gun legislation when half the laws already on the books are contradictory, convoluted and restrict only people that want to lawfully and safely possess.
    Hear, hear.

    A Federal permit is gun control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    A government large enough to give you what you want is large enough to take everything you have.
    Our government is already giving some of us much more than we "want", regarding rules, regulations and federal laws. Government is not about about freedom, it's all about the power to control the people it supposedly serves. Pax...
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