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Thread: Erik Scott

  1. #1
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    Erik Scott

    I realize this is not new news, but it was posted yesterday and bears understanding the environment we live in.

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/cops-gun-...rig=diversions

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    This is why I BEG, PLEAD, and beg some more that my OC friends JUST LEAVE when asked to do so.. You can take care of complaints later, arguing in the store with a bunch of liberal hippies reliant on the government to take a pee, is the WRONG place to talk about OC, CC or 2A..

    I feel for his family. LEO's are SUPPOSED to be trained... I've taken some POST classes, if the story is true, they at least need some remedial training, if not replace their JHP with paintballs..

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-03-2012 at 03:19 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    ... if the story is true,...
    It's true. It happened here two years ago. We are still dealing with it because it is only one case of a disturbing trend in this county.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    It's true. It happened here two years ago. We are still dealing with it because it is only one case of a disturbing trend in this county.
    Not good.. I wish you guys luck over there.. I think I may move to Alaska soon..

    --Rob

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    Petition Costco to Change their Policy.


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    Regular Member nkunnen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    This is why I BEG, PLEAD, and beg some more that my OC friends JUST LEAVE when asked to do so.. You can take care of complaints later, arguing in the store with a bunch of liberal hippies reliant on the government to take a pee, is the WRONG place to talk about OC, CC or 2A..

    I feel for his family. LEO's are SUPPOSED to be trained... I've taken some POST classes, if the story is true, they at least need some remedial training, if not replace their JHP with paintballs..

    --Rob


    I agree....

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Signed

    --Rob

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    That petition is gonna go nowhere on "change.org". Remember that site is "government 2.0" according the Obama campaign.

    http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20...ith-changeorg/

    Just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    This is why I BEG, PLEAD, and beg some more that my OC friends JUST LEAVE when asked to do so..
    Except, Erik Scott was not asked to leave. The manager said, "You can't have that in here," they talked, and then the manager left him alone to continue his shopping.

    Unknown to the manager, loss prevention called the police.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 06-03-2012 at 08:28 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Except, Erik Scott was not asked to leave. The manager said, "You can't have that in here," they talked, and then the manager left him alone to continue his shopping.

    Unknown to the manager, loss prevention called the police.
    Direct quote:

    "Scott and his girlfriend had been shopping in the Costco, but had been asked to leave when an employee spotted Scott’s lawfully carried handgun."

    It was also indicated that he was arguing with employees.. unfortunately, a fatal error in judgement..

    Not that I condone Costco, or the PD in this case. he was asked to leave..
    I have never been asked to leave anywhere in 10 years, however, if asked.. I'd just say sorry for the inconvenience, leave, and shoot off letters..

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-03-2012 at 08:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Direct quote:

    "Scott and his girlfriend had been shopping in the Costco, but had been asked to leave when an employee spotted Scott’s lawfully carried handgun."
    Those are the writer's words, and he doesn't cite any source.

    The girlfriend said he was not asked to leave. There was conflicting testimony at the time of the inquest.

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    I've OC'd at the Costco on Nevada here in the Springs numerous occasions without a peep ... including interactions with store staff who noted my open sidearm..... nada.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Those are the writer's words, and he doesn't cite any source.

    The girlfriend said he was not asked to leave. There was conflicting testimony at the time of the inquest.
    Regardless, it's just plain STUPID to argue with people on private property re: guns.. esp, when you are carrying..
    Again, I feel for the family, but i'd never put myself in that position.. I am all for defending my rights, hell I spent 18 years in the US Army doing just that.. but being alive to defend your rights beats what happened here..

    --Rob

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMtnScotsman View Post
    I've OC'd at the Costco on Nevada here in the Springs numerous occasions without a peep ... including interactions with store staff who noted my open sidearm..... nada.
    Same here.. =) except i'm out on the East side Costco

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-04-2012 at 08:48 PM.

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    Case in point

    The last two posts are the whole point, either you have a policy (and POST it!) or you don't. You don't have unwritten policies and enforce them whenever and wherever you want. . . . inconsistent application of rules gets people killed. That'd be like, I only follow the 3 basic firearms rules on odd days. . . . .I don't like russian roulette.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogidu View Post
    The last two posts are the whole point, either you have a policy (and POST it!) or you don't. You don't have unwritten policies and enforce them whenever and wherever you want. . . . inconsistent application of rules gets people killed. That'd be like, I only follow the 3 basic firearms rules on odd days. . . . .I don't like russian roulette.
    I agree there, like Starbucks, they have gone public (some time ago) and stated the will follow the local laws, it's even posted within their corporate website.. Too bad other companies don't have the .. balls .. to come out and post policies publicly..

    Employees should be trained as to how to handle things like this.. if it's no carry, fine, I take my business elsewhere.. if it's ok.. then cool, but rogue employees too scared to wipe thier butts without the nanny state watching over them should NOT affect their policy..

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

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    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    This needless death appears to be on the loss prevention officer's shoulders.

    I sympathize to an extent with the LEO's who felt that they had to shoot - BUT.........

    COPS are being trained to draw their weapons, and aim them at people FIRST........
    and asked questions later. (Again - "officer Safety")

    Why is it that "officer safety" has taken the front seat ?

    One reason is that most officers are assigned solo- without a partner . This must stop.

    LEO partner assignments ( as in "Adam 12") facilitate coordinated techniques in approaching suspects that preclude robotic knee-jerk reactions like this one that ended in the unnecessary death of a law-abiding citizen that very well could have been you, or I.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 06-05-2012 at 06:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Regardless, it's just plain STUPID to argue with people on private property re: guns.. esp, when you are carrying..
    I agree, but again: the characterization of Scott "arguing" came from those with jobs and money at stake in the outcome of the investigation and inquest.

    Arguing, versus discussing, versus asking for clarification, are all matters of degree and perception. When only one party is alive to recount the conversation, and it happens to be someone whose ass is on the line, the details and perception just might change a bit, don't you think?

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I agree, but again: the characterization of Scott "arguing" came from those with jobs and money at stake in the outcome of the investigation and inquest.

    Arguing, versus discussing, versus asking for clarification, are all matters of degree and perception. When only one party is alive to recount the conversation, and it happens to be someone whose ass is on the line, the details and perception just might change a bit, don't you think?
    True, I wasn't there so there's no way to know what *really* happened. BUT .. I still recommend that people just leave when asked, it's not worth your life when it can be resolved offline.

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    True, I wasn't there so there's no way to know what *really* happened. BUT .. I still recommend that people just leave when asked, it's not worth your life when it can be resolved offline.

    --Rob
    Yeah but unlike the hokey trespass signs, that warn "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again", the penalty for trespass shouldn't be death. That's all he did at the very most, as far as I know, he never threatened anybody's safety.
    Hoka hey

  21. #21
    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    I agree, but again: the characterization of Scott "arguing" came from those with jobs and money at stake in the outcome of the investigation and inquest.

    Arguing, versus discussing, versus asking for clarification, are all matters of degree and perception. When only one party is alive to recount the conversation, and it happens to be someone whose ass is on the line, the details and perception just might change a bit, don't you think?
    And all of the disputing facts came from who? People who also had an agenda - like clearing the name of a loved one.

    None of us were there, at least that I am aware of.

    Not justifying the cops unjustifiable killing, but I have seen a lot of sketchy 'facts' argued either way in this case and really there is a lot we will never know for sure.
    Last edited by jdholmes; 06-06-2012 at 03:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    And all of the disputing facts came from who? People who also had an agenda - like clearing the name of a loved one.
    The only witnesses called at the inquest were those who had some connection to Costco or law enforcement. Other witnesses have made public statements that the testimony was false.

    Even more telling, within minutes of the first notice here of the shooting, one of the posters here predicted that Costco's cameras were going to have "technical difficulties." And that's the official story -- a multibillion-dollar company, which spends millions of dollars on security equipment, claimed that their surveillance system wasn't working.

  23. #23
    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    I think that was the biggest crock of the whole case...ridiculous.

  24. #24
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It's not a being paranoid if it's true.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  25. #25
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    We got a little off track here. While it is good advice to not argue the point when asked or told to leave by a store manager, whether or not Erik Scott did so is a red herring.

    He wasn't shot because he refused to leave. He was shot because police panicked and used poor tactics.

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