Smithfield Woman Charged Armed To The Terror Of the Public

NC-Heel said:

I still believe people should be charged, convicted and lose their firearms rights when they do stupid acts.
The acts I deem stupid are warning shots, showing someone you are armed to claim your superiority and displaying an unholstered firearm to deter any potential unlawful acts that have not yet occurred are some of them.
When I unholster my pistol or present my long gun I do it with the intent of discharging it to stop an immediate threat.

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I disagree with that bolded part.
I see displaying / having in-hand & pointing as 2 steps on the force continuum.
The next step above pointing would be shooting.
Any of those can stop an immediate threat, & I'd really prefer NOT to harm anyone.

MKEgal said:

I disagree with that bolded part.
I see displaying / having in-hand & pointing as 2 steps on the force continuum.
The next step above pointing would be shooting.
Any of those can stop an immediate threat, & I'd really prefer NOT to harm anyone.

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That is where my thoughts differ. An immediate threat is one that can not be deterred only stopped. A threat can be deterred. Someone walking down the street toward you with a machete is only a threat to you and if you point a firearm at them to deter them you are now breaking the law not them. A man charging you with the same machete raised above his head is an immediate threat and needs to be stopped.

Pointing a firearm at someone now makes you a threat to someone elses life and by law, as long as they are not committing a felony at the time, they have the right to defend themselves. I am not a police officer participating in a felony traffic stop. If I point my weapon at you there is a projectile coming your way.

sawah said:

Though I agree with you, I think we are a LITTLE too harsh with people who do stupid acts with their firearms when those people probably did not harm anyone or really mean to harm someone. I know warning shots are bad, but no one dies as a result. I know brandishing is very bad, but here again, no one dies or is harmed. I'd like to see some discretion afforded to those who are truly afraid, but probably over-estimating the threat. I'm not advocating we create a culture of fear, but there are a lot of females, elderly, disabled people who are choosing to be armed and who sometimes are faced with situations where they need an intermediate remedy when backing up is not enough and shooting someone is too much.

We allow LEOs to do a bit of brandishing, maybe we can re-think the penalties for a LAC doing so. Having said that, I'm dead set about doing those things when operating a motor vehicle - i.e. flashing your gun at other drivers to intimidate them should be dealt with harshly.

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The police are allowed to do it way too much with no recourse but they are given credentials to identify themselves. LAC and bad guys both look alike. weapons should never be used as a deterrent. There is no way to define when pointing a weapon at someone is acceptable or not. Should a lady be able to walk out of a grocery store at night and point a pistol at everyone she sees on her way to her car because they scare her with their presence? That guy over there looks creepy let me draw my weapon just in case he tries something. These two guys are arguing over who was first in line, let me solve this problem with my gun.

NC-Heel said:

That is where my thoughts differ. An immediate threat is one that can not be deterred only stopped. A threat can be deterred. Someone walking down the street toward you with a machete is only a threat to you and if you point a firearm at them to deter them you are now breaking the law not them. A man charging you with the same machete raised above his head is an immediate threat and needs to be stopped.

Pointing a firearm at someone now makes you a threat to someone elses life and by law, as long as they are not committing a felony at the time, they have the right to defend themselves. I am not a police officer participating in a felony traffic stop. If I point my weapon at you there is a projectile coming your way.

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I think if I was walking down the street, depending on circumstances and saw a person with a machete, I'd draw and palm my firearm. Remember the Tueller Drill. I realize you're giving an example and yes, just having a machete or a chainsaw or any potential weapon does not rise to the level of 'gravest extreme'. In fact the most dangerous weapon on the streets is a car driven by a driver texting on their cell-phone and you can't solve that with a firearm, sadly.

sawah said:

I think if I was walking down the street, depending on circumstances and saw a person with a machete, I'd draw and palm my firearm. Remember the Tueller Drill. I realize you're giving an example and yes, just having a machete or a chainsaw or any potential weapon does not rise to the level of 'gravest extreme'. In fact the most dangerous weapon on the streets is a car driven by a driver texting on their cell-phone and you can't solve that with a firearm, sadly.

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Yeah, but we are talking about using a firearm as a deterrent not making it easier to bring into a gunfight. There have been many times I have made my concealed weapon easier to access due to a potential threat. As far as cars, that is the reason I carry a pistol chambered in 357Sig. It and 5.7 is the only defensive round that will consistently penetrate laminated automotive windshields and still have any energy left.

Now if she was in the process of doing a citizens arrest ... I wonder how that would work out .. impossible to say if she's guilty ... may depend on what she told the cops (hopefully nothing)

davidmcbeth said:

Now if she was in the process of doing a citizens arrest ... I wonder how that would work out .. impossible to say if she's guilty ... may depend on what she told the cops (hopefully nothing)

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I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a "citizens arrest" in NC.

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The fella running towards you (at you?) with that machete may actually be running towards the person behind you (not at you), or running away from someone else and is running in a direction that appears to be 'at you'. Deter or stop? Hmm, tough one. Go ahead and stop the threat that may latter be proven to not have been a threat at all.

Deterrence is a proven course of action and works in the vast majority of 'threatening' situations. Why the hell do we OC. Why do most cops wear uniforms? Why send a carrier battle group to the gulf?

Regarding the old lady walking to her car with groceries and the other ridiculous scenarios.....hyperbole.

What would a reasonable person do given the same set of facts? That is the test that will either get you tossed in jail or left alone.

Ruger said:

I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a "citizens arrest" in NC.

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Sure there is. I distinctly remember Gomer running around yelling "citizens arrest, citizens arrest" and he's from Mayberry and that's in NC, right?

Seriously, you are correct. There is no such thing in NC.

OC for ME said:

The fella running towards you (at you?) with that machete may actually be running towards the person behind you (not at you), or running away from someone else and is running in a direction that appears to be 'at you'. Deter or stop? Hmm, tough one. Go ahead and stop the threat that may latter be proven to not have been a threat at all.

Deterrence is a proven course of action and works in the vast majority of 'threatening' situations. Why the hell do we OC. Why do most cops wear uniforms? Why send a carrier battle group to the gulf?

Regarding the old lady walking to her car with groceries and the other ridiculous scenarios.....hyperbole.

What would a reasonable person do given the same set of facts? That is the test that will either get you tossed in jail or left alone.

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You forgot about the raised machete. If you are going to debate my statements you need to use the entire statement and not just the part that supports your side. Running at someone with a Machete raised over your head puts you in the act of using a machete. Whether they are running at you or someone else does not matter as in North Carolina you are allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself or someone from imminent bodily harm.

North Carolina said:

In order for deadly force to be legally and appropriately used in North Carolina, 1) “a citizen must actually believe deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm or sexual assault; and 2) the facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force was necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm or sexual assault; and 3) the citizen using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered or continued the conflict leading to deadly force; and 4) the force used was not excessive — greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by the hostile aggressor.”

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I could actually see where someone pointed a weapon at someone when they were not an immediate threat without the intention of discharging said weapon then having to fire after a delay being charged for continuing the conflict and actually becoming the aggressor. Far fetched but ask Zimmerman how the Stand Your Ground law is working out for him.

I never said deterrence is wrong, pointing your firearm at someone as a deterrent is. As for your reasonable person, the average American does not think you should even own a firearm. If they thought you should be able to arm yourself we would already have restaurant carry and Obama would not be President.

Laws have to be cut and dry. They can not be vague. Can't have a law that says you can point a gun at someone if you feel fairly threatened but not if you are barely threatened. Thus you can not tell someone it is OK to sometimes point a weapon at someone and sometimes it is not, just depends and we can not define it.