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Thread: What condition (1,2,or 3) for OC?

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    What condition (1,2,or 3) for OC?

    I know a lot of us don't want to give any "info" to potential BG's out there, so I'm not really asking each member to state what condition you carry in. I'd love to hear debate about adv/dis-adv of each set-up. Essentially for my sake it would be only condition 2 or 3. My carry is a Glock so it's either in the chamber and ready or it's not chambered at all. I've read a lot of people who say they carry a Glock in Condition 3 because they want to be safe.

    Anyway, I'm just curious to hear thoughts from the forum to see what you all think. Again, if you're not comfortable stating your personal carry condition, no big deal. I totally understand.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    For my XD I have either condition 1 or 3. I choose 1.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Here we go again with a topic that's already been hashed out.


    Sent from my iPhone 4

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrunner View Post
    Here we go again with a topic that's already been hashed out.


    Sent from my iPhone 4
    I tried to search and nothing came up. I'm sure it's been hashed before and I apologize for opening wounds if I did. I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just a curious person and wanted to hear both sides of the discussion. I'm not talking CC. I think I'll have a round chambered when I finally get my CCW. Just curious if there were any feelings on OC specifically.

    If it's a dead mule, point me to the spot it was killed and I'll read it myself.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    I always OC and always condition 1...Chambered, cocked with safety on. If I were to carry a Glock it would be in condition 0.

    An unloaded firearm is as much use or less than carrying a hammer.

  6. #6
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    I tried to search and nothing came up. I'm sure it's been hashed before and I apologize for opening wounds if I did. I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just a curious person and wanted to hear both sides of the discussion. I'm not talking CC. I think I'll have a round chambered when I finally get my CCW. Just curious if there were any feelings on OC specifically.

    If it's a dead mule, point me to the spot it was killed and I'll read it myself.
    Don't worry about the rehashing bit. Your thread subject is VERY clear. No one has to open it.
    Having said that I carry a SA/DA with one in the chamber safety off.
    Having a gun without a round in the chamber, IMHO, is not ready to defend. Most probably gonna be worthless.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    When I first started carrying a semi-auto .45 acp in 1993 I naively selected a $300 Interarms Star .45 acp compact (6+1). It was a Brazilian mfg gun, and served me well - I even used it to qualify for my first and renewal Texas CHL - -even though I had to reload it mid-stream.

    To the topic - I did not trust the gun, or myself enough to carry it with a round chamered - so I practiced - and perfected a "draw, rack, thumb safety release, and present " motion that was equal to a "draw & present". That having been said - I don't believe I was being very smart.

    Since 2006 I have also carried a Glock. I have considered the safety concerns associated with there being no thumb safety - but I have decided that it is better to have a LOADED weapon than a potentially loaded one. As long as the Glock is nestled in a secure holster and the fingers stay away from the safety release & trigger it isn't going to fire.

    I have also considered another scenario. What if - a bad guy gets hold of your gun ???

    If it's not chambered - you have a couple of seconds to attempt to recover control, or at least sabotage BG's attempt to successfully chamber a round..

    It's a tough call . I have decided to keep mine ready for action, and understand the risks. If that Glock needs to come out of its holster - it is ready to go.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 06-04-2012 at 05:43 PM.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    92FS - 1 in chamber, 10 (or 15) in mag, safety off, 1st round double action..

    Hornady 9mm - 124gr XTP JHP

    --Rob

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    92FS - 1 in chamber, 10 (or 15) in mag, safety off, 1st round double action..

    --Rob
    Same here when I have my Barretta 96 in use.

    My Glock I carry same way and don't worry about the lack of an external safety.
    A mechanical safety to me is defined as a device that can fail, and should not be used as a failsafe.
    Last edited by JamesB; 06-04-2012 at 05:48 PM.

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    My Glock 21 has been my primary carry for the past 10 years. I've carried in condition 1 for the past 9. I've often heard and found to be true that the best safety a gun can have is the one between your ears.

    All three of the Glock safeties rely on the trigger being pulled. The first one being in the trigger itself. Don't pull the trigger, gun doesn't fire.

    Carry in the way that you feel most comfortable with. That said, you should learn, train, practice until you are comfortable carrying in condition 1.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
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    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the honest answers. I have been carrying in 3 for a couple reasons. Which I assume will be taken care of in the near future. First, I am still relatively new to this gun (2 weeks now) and I don't exactly trust myself to keep my finger off the trigger when drawing. I practice every day, but I'm not 100% confident in myself. I'd call it a solid 95%. But the main thing that ran through my head was having the gun taken from me. I don't know if I could properly stop that action. But then, getting something like a level 2 or 3 holster seemed not much better than carrying in condition 3 to me anyway really.

    I have a fairly simple Uncle Mike's kydex holster that I love. It's easy to wear and the draw is great to me. But it's definitely not impossible to have someone else get the gun from me if I'm not paying attention. I can usually get my hand on top of the gun as soon as I feel a slight tug.

    I'm still a little on the fence, but I can totally understand the reasons for condition 1. By all means, anyone else is welcome to add more to the discussion. I love the responses so far.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Anyone who's carried in Condition-3 and survived an assault will reassure you that you will always have time to rack the slide before shooting.
    ....
    Those who did not have time to rack the slide while being assaulted probably won't say anything, they're too busy being dead.

    Can you guarantee -
    - that you'll always have two hands free?
    - that you'll never have your off-hand being frantically grasped in terror by your wife, girlfriend, daughter, mistress, bff?
    - that you'll never carry anything you're not willing to drop Immediately should an assault occur?
    - that you'll never be injured in you off-had such that you'll be incapable of racking the slide?
    - that you'll never be so occupied fighting off someone with your off-hand that you won't have the opportunity to rack the slide?

    Handguns are what we carry when we're NOT expecting trouble; if we WERE expecting trouble we'd carry a real gun. That assaults usually occur without proper prior notification by the goblin that he's about to assault you is par for the course, so.... why are we purposely putting ourselves in a position where we're even more behind the curve than need be?

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    My daily carry is a .45 DA/SA, chambered, safety off.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    CZ75D Compact aka P01

    Condition 1.5. Chambered, decocked (half-cocked? That would be fitting for me), first press is like ya mean it and requires training for it.

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    With the exception of a 1911, (I own one and that's probably enough for me) I would never buy a handgun that had a manual safety.

    I carry round in the chamber.
    Last edited by Phoenix David; 06-05-2012 at 01:21 AM.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    This is gonna start a little off topic, but trust me I'll bring it back around. Last night we were looking for something to watch and my wife saw this show in the guide called "Gun Talk TV" or something like that. My wife had never fired a gun in her life until last Friday I got her out to the range. She's by no means anti-gun, she grew up in the house of a former cop. She was just way overprotected and never allowed to touch them. She's a girl after all and girls aren't supposed to do that kind of thing (thoughts from her Grandpa). Anyway, she wanted a gun, she's just scared to death. So she says, "hey it's a show for you." Cause I'm kind of obsessed right now. I laughed and did the "yeah, yeah." kind of thing and went back to my gun... lol. I tried to talk to her, and she started shushing me. I looked up ans she's watching it because it was all about first time women training in an all ladies class. They ran some drills and she asked if they have that kind of class here. I assumed so, so I started looking. Long story short, after watching it, she says, you know there's no way you could perform those drills without a round in the chamber. Like condition 0, if you will. All of a sudden, my wife is telling me that we need to learn to carry with it ready to shoot because she doesn't think she could rack the slide in time to stop someone....

    Guess I'm convinced. Now it's just a matter of training myself to feel more comfortable and not touch the stupid friggin trigger!!!!! LOL.

    Thanks a lot for all the input. It's been really helpful.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Guess I'm convinced. Now it's just a matter of training myself to feel more comfortable and not touch the stupid friggin trigger!!!!! LOL.

    Thanks a lot for all the input. It's been really helpful.
    Just be careful , many negligent discharges occur when reholstering the firearm (believe it or not) .. the trigger hangs on clothes, etc and the shooter gets a bad case of Glock Leg Syndrome.

    Do a LOT of dry drills, work on presenting and reholstering until you get comfortable.. =)

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-05-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Just be careful , many negligent discharges occur when reholstering the firearm (believe it or not) .. the trigger hangs on clothes, etc and the shooter gets a bad case of Glock Leg Syndrome.

    Do a LOT of dry drills, work on presenting and reholstering until you get comfortable.. =)

    --Rob
    Thanks Rob. It's really good advice. I actually spent about 15 mins last night drilling myself. Drawing and presenting in both unchambered and chambered (used snap caps for realism). I found that I could not draw, rack, and present anywhere near as fast because I often missed the slide and ended up not fully racking a bullet into the chamber. I spent a lot of time reholstering to be sure I cleared the path of clothes. I guess it's just as important to be sure there's nothing in the way going back in.

    I'm teaching myself to keep my finger off the trigger. and even my wife is getting into the swing by calling me out when I do.

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    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Thanks Rob. It's really good advice. I actually spent about 15 mins last night drilling myself. Drawing and presenting in both unchambered and chambered (used snap caps for realism). I found that I could not draw, rack, and present anywhere near as fast because I often missed the slide and ended up not fully racking a bullet into the chamber. I spent a lot of time reholstering to be sure I cleared the path of clothes. I guess it's just as important to be sure there's nothing in the way going back in.

    I'm teaching myself to keep my finger off the trigger. and even my wife is getting into the swing by calling me out when I do.
    Good stuff!

    I yell at my kids all the time about that darn trigger finger.. my step son posted a pic on FB of him holding his friends mini-14.. all 'gangsta' with his finger on the trigger.. I have banned him from my firearms until he learns a little.. respect for them..

    At any rate, one of these days (hopefully in July) I'll be NRA certified as a pistol instructor and can give you some pointers.. pointers.. how appropriate.. :P

    --Rob
    Last edited by Bellum_Intus; 06-05-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I yell at my kids all the time about that darn trigger finger.. my step son posted a pic on FB of him holding his friends mini-14.. all 'gangsta' with his finger on the trigger.. I have banned him from my firearms until he learns a little.. respect for them..
    I drill regularly with my 7yo daughter "handing" her my sidearm. I'll take it off my hip and say, "hold this." It's not always she correctly asks me to open the action before reaching for it, but she's getting better. In that drill, I don't actually give it to her and pull back out of her reach if she motions for it before asking.

    It's scary, really. You can train them on safety and respect all day long, but what happens when they walk out the door and see a friend's Mini-14 is up to the gods. Still training and respect is better than the nothing a lot of parents teach.

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    Regular Member zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    Just be careful , many negligent discharges occur when reholstering the firearm (believe it or not) .. the trigger hangs on clothes, etc and the shooter gets a bad case of Glock Leg Syndrome.

    Do a LOT of dry drills, work on presenting and reholstering until you get comfortable.. =)

    --Rob
    Reminds me of 'ol Tex showing us his quick draw skills!

    I like practicing at home with a snapcap in the chamber.

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    Regular Member porterhouse83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    I always OC and always condition 1...Chambered, cocked with safety on. If I were to carry a Glock it would be in condition 0.

    An unloaded firearm is as much use or less than carrying a hammer.
    This!

  23. #23
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Browning designed the 1911 and the Hi-Power to be carried in Cond 1. That is how I always carry them. If you have concerns about carrying this way, then it is the wrong pistol for you. Get an XD/m, M&P or Glock.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I think there's some confusion over the various conditions...


    "Cooper favored the Colt M1911 and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:
    Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
    Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
    Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
    Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
    Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off." - Source: Jeff Cooper - The Modern Technique


    Although I could, I would NEVER carry in Condition Zero. With the seriously reduced trigger pull, it significantly increases the likelihood of an unintentional discharge while drawing it from my holster.

    I could carry it in Condition One, but that requires an extra step! I can't just draw and fire. I have to draw, thumb off the safety, then fire.

    I carry in Condition Two, as I can simply draw and fire. A full trigger pull is required, and because of the firing pin interlock, the firearm won't fire unless the trigger is pulled nearly the full extent of its travel. It's both quite safe and the most readily accessible in Condition Two.

    I would only carry in Condition Three if I were travelling as an Air Marshal and thereby required to do so while aboard the aircraft. Since I'm not an Air Marshal...

    Condition Four is for people who live in a state controlled by non-gunners, like California. They used to allow OC, but the tails tucked between their legs grew even whiter, and one can't open carry a proper self-defense firearm over there any more.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I think there's some confusion over the various conditions...


    "Cooper favored the Colt M1911 and its variants. There are several conditions of readiness in which such a weapon can be carried. Cooper promulgated most of the following terms:
    Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
    Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
    Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
    Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
    Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off." - Source: Jeff Cooper - The Modern Technique


    Although I could, I would NEVER carry in Condition Zero. With the seriously reduced trigger pull, it significantly increases the likelihood of an unintentional discharge while drawing it from my holster.

    I could carry it in Condition One, but that requires an extra step! I can't just draw and fire. I have to draw, thumb off the safety, then fire.

    I carry in Condition Two, as I can simply draw and fire. A full trigger pull is required, and because of the firing pin interlock, the firearm won't fire unless the trigger is pulled nearly the full extent of its travel. It's both quite safe and the most readily accessible in Condition Two.

    I would only carry in Condition Three if I were travelling as an Air Marshal and thereby required to do so while aboard the aircraft. Since I'm not an Air Marshal...

    Condition Four is for people who live in a state controlled by non-gunners, like California. They used to allow OC, but the tails tucked between their legs grew even whiter, and one can't open carry a proper self-defense firearm over there any more.
    It's difficult to classify the Glock into one of those because of the unique trigger action. It's sort of most like condition 2, because it does require a full trigger pull to complete the action. But it's basically half cocked at that point. So I would think that it would most resemble condition 2. It's certainly not condition 1 because of the no safety. And it's not exactly condition 0 because the trigger isn't fully cocked and you have to complete that step as you pull the trigger.

    Anyway, I'm not gonna be able to take my CCW class this weekend due to scheduling so I plan to take it next weekend. I think after that class I'm gonna be a lot more comfortable with any condition.

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