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Thread: Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO



    Dale Norman has a valid Florida Concealed Carry License but was arrested on February 19th, 2012 by the Fort Pierce, FL Police Dept. while otherwise lawfully carrying a handgun because it accidentally became exposed.

    He is currently being prosecuted despite assurances made to the Florida Legislature in 2011 that police, prosecutors and Sheriffs would stop harassing people with concealed carry licenses for innocent accidental exposure of their handguns...
    More Info:
    http://www.allnineyards.com/2012/06/...rried-handgun/
    Last edited by StogieC; 06-04-2012 at 04:09 PM.

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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    So much for 'briefly'.

    'Tards.
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    Florida Carry, Inc.

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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Jury selection is on Thursday.

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    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    So much for 'briefly'.

    'Tards.
    Yep, I guess "briefly" means one nanosecond to those cops. I hope he has a good lawyer and beats this BS arrest.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Why did the cop write that his shirt was tucked in? It clearly isn't in the video. A "skin tight shirt" is not illegal, printing is not a crime here. It's legal to carry a Desert Eagle .50 under spandex here, not a great fashion statement, but legal.

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    hope it all gos well 4 this guy, I know the stress he will have 2 deal with wile he fights the charge

  7. #7
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    I've looked at the video several times now and I don't really notice the shirt flapping open or anything but I did notice what appears to be the bottom of a holster on his right side. Am I correct in what I'm seeing?

    If so, is that what he was "taken down" for and is showing part of a holster illegal?

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    In a post treyvon martin Fl, maybe the courts are the only way to OC legalized here. I just don't see the Fl legislature giving it back now, even though OC could have prevented the whole case.

    This guy would have to be convicted in order for him to challenge the law, right? And I'm sure he won't be convicted.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  9. #9
    McX
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    i watched the video, i didnt see anything illegal, except for the cop driving and parking on the sidewalk.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I guess I am just not seeing "accidental exposure" here. His shirt wasn't even long enough to cover the gun if he wanted it to. Florida law still needs to be changed, though.
    Actually, he wasn't wearing a belt so it's quite possible his shirt covered the holster until his shorts began to ride down. Nonetheless, the prosecution will have to prove his firearm was visible, not his holster.
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    Speaking of accidental exposure

    Hi folks:

    I just got one of these from Active Pro Gear: http://www.activeprogear.com/gunpouch.html and was wondering, though we are for open carry if this would work here in Floriduh. It fits my full size 1911-A2 and my Glock 17 like a glove. The only thing that shows is the magazine plate.

    Photo Attached. Maybe this would have kept this poor guy out of trouble, but then again, since you have to wear a belt to hold on, and he did not seem to have one on, it would not work for him.

    Thoughts?

    Mike
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavidal View Post
    Hi folks:

    I just got one of these from Active Pro Gear: http://www.activeprogear.com/gunpouch.html and was wondering, though we are for open carry if this would work here in Floriduh. It fits my full size 1911-A2 and my Glock 17 like a glove. The only thing that shows is the magazine plate.

    Photo Attached. Maybe this would have kept this poor guy out of trouble, but then again, since you have to wear a belt to hold on, and he did not seem to have one on, it would not work for him.

    Thoughts?

    Mike
    Nope, you can see the base of the grip of the gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Nope, you can see the base of the grip of the gun.
    Well, if I put my shirt over it, then nothing shows except for the bottom of the pouch. I would guess at that point it would work?

    Mike

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    this looked like a "planned" stop. did someone call the police? because if you notice, the dash cam shows another cop coming up right at the same time...
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    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    this looked like a "planned" stop. did someone call the police? because if you notice, the dash cam shows another cop coming up right at the same time...
    Yes, there was an anonymous call to 911 about a man carrying a gun in a holster. I'm trying to get the tape.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mavidal View Post
    Well, if I put my shirt over it, then nothing shows except for the bottom of the pouch. I would guess at that point it would work?

    Mike
    I don't want to be a test case for anything. I have no time for jail and had enough of people who don't like me pointing guns at me in the Army.

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Yes, there was an anonymous call to 911 about a man carrying a gun in a holster. I'm trying to get the tape.
    do you mind messaging me when you do? just in case i miss it on this thread? thanks
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    I am very interested in this case. Is there anything those of us on the forum can do?

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    The cops created the situation where the gun would show by making him raise his hands high in the air which caused the shirt to ride up.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    The cops created the situation where the gun would show by making him raise his hands high in the air which caused the shirt to ride up.
    as they have done before. Just ask el rompe toto...
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    The cops created the situation where the gun would show by making him raise his hands high in the air which caused the shirt to ride up.
    That happened to another person (Mora) but not in this case.

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    Arrest Record

    790.053-2617

    CARRYING PROHIBITED WEAPON - CARRYING WEAPON OPENLY

    http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Dale_Norman_7215069/
    Last edited by seminoles1999; 06-06-2012 at 08:34 AM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    You call this hands raised high in the air?

    Attachment 8574

    The gun is clearly visible there and I don't see how that shirt could possibly be seen by a reasonable person as adequate to conceal it. (Click on the picture above to get a bigger image.)
    you must have GREAT eyesight. because all i can see is a black spot on his right hip. i have no idea what it is from the picture. best i can tell is maybe a pouch. but if you were to randomly show me or anyone else this picture, no chance they'd say it's a gun.

    sorry bout it.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    You call this hands raised high in the air?

    Attachment 8574

    The gun is clearly visible there and I don't see how that shirt could possibly be seen by a reasonable person as adequate to conceal it. (Click on the picture above to get a bigger image.)
    Actually, the gun is not visible. A black leather case of some kind is visible.

    It could be a cell phone pouch.

    When the cops pulled up, they could not see any firearm either as it was on the side away from them.

    Of course someone had called in a MWAG on him which could be anything. It could be an extreme Hoplophobe. It could be someone that had a vendetta against this man. It could have been for any number of reasons.

    But, for the cops to automatically assume someone walking down the street with a black case visible under their shirt is a criminal and should be proned out is wrong.

  25. #25
    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Why the heavy handed approach to poor choices of concealment?

    I only have one question.

    Why the heavy handed approach by law enforcement against people that inadvertently flash their weapon or choose their method of concealment poorly?

    You cannot say that it is because the police know they have a firearm as this would be illogical. When criminals have a firearm and the officer does not know, he is not at any more risk because officers are trained to always be aware of what is going on and what the person they are speaking to is doing.

    The officers in the video just immediately take the man to the ground. No questions asked.

    If cops were truly here to "Serve and Protect", the conversation should have went like this:

    Officer: "Sir, we need to talk. Someone called in and said they had seen a firearm on you. Are you carrying and do you have a CDW Permit?"

    Non Criminal: "Yes Sir, I do have a permit and I am concealing it right here on my waist."

    Officer: "But we can see your firearm and that is not allowed."

    Non Criminal: "What you are seeing is a leather case. It covers my firearm completely. Someone must have seen me bend over."

    Officer: "Sir, your permit is to carry concealed and although we knew you had a firearm from a caller, concealing it in the manner you are doing is asking for trouble. Now I suggest you either get a longer shirt or get an IWB Holster. We can agree to disagree on whether the case is sufficient to conceal but I am trying to save you some trouble and do not want to have to ticket you."

    Non Criminal: "I will take that under advisement. Thank you for letting me know that my concealment method was not perfect. It can be hard to conceal with the clothes I like to wear and this weather."

    Officer: "You are welcome. Have a nice day."

    Non Criminal: "You too sir!"

    Now wouldn't that be better than what was in the video?

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