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Thread: Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    The jury found that Norman did in fact openly carry in violation of the law. Then the jury undertook the extraordinary act of directly addressing Mr. Norman and the court. The foreperson made a statement in open court that went something to the effect that the law itself is without merit. I'll have the audio some time next week. Too bad they didn't know about jury nullification...

    But it's not over yet! The Judge will be hearing arguments on the defense's motions to dismiss on July 31st.

    One of the motions to dismiss makes the argument that Open Carry bans are unconstitutional. Say tuned!
    I am not at liberty to say more on this topic at this time.
    Ooooh Exciting!

  2. #52
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    I'm a little confused. Is the next hearing an appeal, or was this a pretrial?

  3. #53
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Trial was today. He was convicted of OC.

    I, too, find it odd that Motions to Dismiss are being filed with the judge AFTER a conviction.
    Director,
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  4. #54
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Trial was today. He was convicted of OC.

    I, too, find it odd that Motions to Dismiss are being filed with the judge AFTER a conviction.

    Actually found guilty by the jury but not yet convicted. There are still motions to dismiss to be considered by the judge.

  5. #55
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    Actually found guilty by the jury but not yet convicted. There are still motions to dismiss to be considered by the judge.
    This is a criminal misdemeanor case in a county court. The rules of procedure are quite different from what most people here are accustomed to.
    Last edited by StogieC; 06-10-2012 at 07:42 AM. Reason: sp

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    This is a criminal misdeminer case in a county court. The rules of procedure are quite different from what most people here are accustomed to.
    Are there plans to appeal if the verdict is upheld?

  7. #57
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    This is a criminal misdeminer case in a county court. The rules of procedure are quite different from what most people here are accustomed to.
    Thanks, Sean.
    Last edited by rvrctyrngr; 06-08-2012 at 09:28 PM.
    Director,
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  8. #58
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    This is a criminal misdeminer case in a county court. The rules of procedure are quite different from what most people here are accustomed to.
    One would think that an IT guy would have a spell checker at his disposal!
    Last edited by Rich7553; 06-09-2012 at 08:51 PM.
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  9. #59
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    One would think that an IT guy would have a spell checker at his disposal!

    ha! lol andriod fail that is what the spellchecker spit out.

  10. #60
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    One would think that an IT guy would have a spell checker at his disposal!
    i know right? i knew better than to point that out though..lol

  11. #61
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Well, there's two testimonies for the Fl senate about good citizens being arrested and having their lives adversely affected by Fl's minority, unconstitutional, and senseless prohibition of openly carried handguns. We also have Oklahoma legalizing it, and we'll be able to point out there was no blood in the streets when it is legal there in a couple months. And, that there will be no loss of revenue at their grocery stores, malls, etc. And how about it's just our freakin rights that they're infringing on!

    Do we need to have a fundraiser so all the people harassed by our heroes in blue/black/green can take off work and testify in Tallahassee next winter?

    I left out heroes in tan because the FHP seems to not care. Good for them.
    Last edited by 77zach; 06-10-2012 at 03:33 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscottie View Post
    I only have one question.

    Why the heavy handed approach by law enforcement against people that inadvertently flash their weapon or choose their method of concealment poorly?

    You cannot say that it is because the police know they have a firearm as this would be illogical. When criminals have a firearm and the officer does not know, he is not at any more risk because officers are trained to always be aware of what is going on and what the person they are speaking to is doing.

    The officers in the video just immediately take the man to the ground. No questions asked.

    If cops were truly here to "Serve and Protect", the conversation should have went like this:

    Officer: "Sir, we need to talk. Someone called in and said they had seen a firearm on you. Are you carrying and do you have a CDW Permit?"

    Non Criminal: "Yes Sir, I do have a permit and I am concealing it right here on my waist."

    Officer: "But we can see your firearm and that is not allowed."

    Non Criminal: "What you are seeing is a leather case. It covers my firearm completely. Someone must have seen me bend over."

    Officer: "Sir, your permit is to carry concealed and although we knew you had a firearm from a caller, concealing it in the manner you are doing is asking for trouble. Now I suggest you either get a longer shirt or get an IWB Holster. We can agree to disagree on whether the case is sufficient to conceal but I am trying to save you some trouble and do not want to have to ticket you."

    Non Criminal: "I will take that under advisement. Thank you for letting me know that my concealment method was not perfect. It can be hard to conceal with the clothes I like to wear and this weather."

    Officer: "You are welcome. Have a nice day."

    Non Criminal: "You too sir!"

    Now wouldn't that be better than what was in the video?
    +1 - if the world worked like this we probably wouldn't need guns (or, be closer to not needing them)

    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Well, there's two testimonies for the Fl senate about good citizens being arrested and having their lives adversely affected by Fl's minority, unconstitutional, and senseless prohibition of openly carried handguns. We also have Oklahoma legalizing it, and we'll be able to point out there was no blood in the streets when it is legal there in a couple months. And, that there will be no loss of revenue at their grocery stores, malls, etc. And how about it's just our freakin rights that they're infringing on!

    Do we need to have a fundraiser so all the people harassed by our heroes in blue/black/green can take off work and testify in Tallahassee next winter?

    I left out heroes in tan because the FHP seems to not care. Good for them.
    It should be enough that they're infringing upon second ammendment to the Constitution; but obviously that ammendment was not worded clearly enough. "Well regulated militia" = National Guard (formed more than 100 years later) of course, and obviously "shall not be infringed" = mangle the aforementioned beyond all ability to recognize.

    As to the FHP, all of my experiences with them have been nothing but positive in every definition of the word. I've had several run-ins with the local PD (nothing serious, all ended in my favor) that were horrific, to say the least; but FHP seems to really care about doing their job properly, respectfully, and curteously.

    For example: once I was in an auto accident. I had been driving home from work and was in my uniform. It was late and I ended up getting run off the road. Another motorist called 911 and got me help while I got out of the wreckage. The motorist remained at the scene to testify on my behalf that I had been run off the road and the other vehicle had taken off. The officer that arrived was completely belligerent and had completely made up his mind what had happened before he even got there: I had been street racing and was probably drunk/high and deserved jail time. He pulled up with his window down screaming at me, screaming as he got out of the car, then screaming in my face. When I showed him my clock-out slip showing I had been out of work only about 30 minutes (at that time) and explained my story he immediately denied it and threatened to arrest me on several charges. When the witness testified on my behalf the officer interrupted him and commanded that he leave the scene. When the motorist questioned the order the officer threatened to arrest him on several grounds too. At this time another unit had been passing and stopped to see what all the commotion was about; he helped clear up the matter but still wrote me a ticket. (Which I went to court over with the witness, pictures, etc. and got the ticket waved)

    In another accident it was a passing FHP that stopped to assist. She was wonderful. She immediately took my account of the accident at face-value and listened to me rage and vent (I had been run off the road again, this time, while transporting a trailer of lumber to a jobsite) while nodding knowingly and reassuringly - even allowing me to sit on the hood of her patrol car with her. When I commented on being hungry she went up the street and got me a hotdog and a soda from the local gas station while we waited on the tow truck. Then she drove me home.

    I have other stories; however, my intent is not to derail the thread so I will keep them to myself. I merely wanted to reinforce the statement that local PD's have their own issues they may or may not need to deal with - and I respect that - but FHP really does, in my opinion, employ some of the finest public servants in the State of Florida.

  13. #63
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    The jury found that Norman did in fact openly carry in violation of the law. Then the jury undertook the extraordinary act of directly addressing Mr. Norman and the court. The foreperson made a statement in open court that went something to the effect that the law itself is without merit. I'll have the audio some time next week. Too bad they didn't know about jury nullification...
    When an attorney makes even the slightest attempt to explain this right to a jury, he/she is met by SCREAMS (literally) from every direction. Even the judge will tell you not to go there. It's a basic jury right that's apparently supposed to remain very hush-hush. I don't get it.

  14. #64
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    It's a basic jury right that's apparently supposed to remain very hush-hush. I don't get it.
    I do! I do! We the People aren't in charge anymore. If you can't say that in a courtroom, then the courtroom is filled with traitors.
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  15. #65
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    NH gets it spelled out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    When an attorney makes even the slightest attempt to explain this right to a jury, he/she is met by SCREAMS (literally) from every direction. Even the judge will tell you not to go there. It's a basic jury right that's apparently supposed to remain very hush-hush. I don't get it.
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/115106.html


    We NEED this law in Fl now.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  16. #66
    Regular Member jammer's Avatar
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    Without merit

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo712 View Post
    when an attorney makes even the slightest attempt to explain this right to a jury, he/she is met by screams (literally) from every direction. Even the judge will tell you not to go there. It's a basic jury right that's apparently supposed to remain very hush-hush. I don't get it.
    to my way of thinking when a foreman says in open court that this law is flawed and, without merit, i think that, that foreman just made that law null and void, at least according to webster dict. Sorry for all caps guys.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Agree 100%

    Mike

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/115106.html


    We NEED this law everywhere in America now.
    Fixed it for you.

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    Those who endure, conquer.

    I suppose we'll see how long this man is willing to fight. Declaring it unconstitutional is a long fight...and I've lost a little bit of faith in the courts recently.

  20. #70
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    I unfortunately spent the majority of my youth in Fort Pierce, these actions by FPPD and the St. Lucie Co courts is in no way shape or form a surprise to me. Any updates on this case yet?

  21. #71
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h20squirter View Post
    I unfortunately spent the majority of my youth in Fort Pierce, these actions by FPPD and the St. Lucie Co courts is in no way shape or form a surprise to me. Any updates on this case yet?
    Hearings for motions to dismiss/possible sentencing are on 7/31.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    I don't want to be a test case for anything. I have no time for jail and had enough of people who don't like me pointing guns at me in the Army.
    That's what happens when you marry a girl in the Army !

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post
    I suppose we'll see how long this man is willing to fight. .
    Well, if he's in prison, he'll have plenty of motivation ....

    And jury nullification requires all jurists to agree ... it won't happen in a gun case

  24. #74
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, if he's in prison, he'll have plenty of motivation ....

    And jury nullification requires all jurists to agree ... it won't happen in a gun case
    I don't believe he's in jail. And I believe that the jury must be unanimous only when convicting someone, not letting them off.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  25. #75
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I don't believe he's in jail. And I believe that the jury must be unanimous only when convicting someone, not letting them off.
    Correct on both counts, Zach. Non-unanimous votes for conviction results in a hung jury. He walks. Prosecutors can decide whether or not to try him again.

    OC is a misdemeanor. CC without a license is a felony.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

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