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Thread: Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO

  1. #151
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Good idea not putting eggs in one basket, but I can't imagine the courts ever giving us OC. I would be astonished and my entire world view as it relates to the effectiveness of the legal system would have to be softened some. Sad that it's going to be such a struggle to get it though the Senate with 26 R's and one amenable Democrat.
    Barriers are meant to be removed - never say never. Florida has had OC before.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  2. #152
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Barriers are meant to be removed - never say never. Florida has had OC before.
    Statements with "never", "always", and the like are destined to be proven wrong at some point. Never is forever, and nothing is forever.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  3. #153
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    Statements with "never", "always", and the like are destined to be proven wrong at some point. Never is forever, and nothing is forever.
    I always ain't never gonna say that no more.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #154
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Barriers are meant to be removed - never say never. Florida has had OC before.
    Kinda sorta.
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  5. #155
    Regular Member MNMGoneShooting's Avatar
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    Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I always ain't never gonna say that no more.
    I never understood why there is always a wise guy lurking on these forums.

  6. #156
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNMGoneShooting View Post
    I never understood why there is always a wise guy lurking on these forums.
    There is no substance where none is sought.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #157
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    The Florida 4th DCA just rejected the State AG's motion to dismiss our petition for them to take jurisdiction. I'll post updates as the arguments are filed.

  8. #158
    Regular Member Golden-Arm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Actually, he wasn't wearing a belt so it's quite possible his shirt covered the holster until his shorts began to ride down. Nonetheless, the prosecution will have to prove his firearm was visible, not his holster.
    likely to be unpopular here, but my take is:
    my favorite restaurant there!! Lol his "pants riding down" are no accident. his "sag" got his ass busted. he couldnt have imagined this was going to end well, walking down us-1 with his pants hanging off his butt, and a gun plainly in view. did he have a flapped holster completely concealing the gun? i'm casting my vote for unlikely. i'm all for protecting our 2A rights, but a line has to be drawn. we can't imagine everyone that has a ccw is somehow "right", when they're clearly in the wrong. 2 blocks from the police hq was no place to get relaxed with your carry. carrying and sagging should never be your fashion statement. just my .02 cents, YMMV.
    Last edited by Golden-Arm; 01-13-2013 at 11:21 PM.

  9. #159
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    Path to Open Carry in FL

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Arm View Post
    likely to be unpopular here, but my take is:
    my favorite restaurant there!! Lol his "pants riding down" are no accident. his "sag" got his ass busted. he couldnt have imagined this was going to end well, walking down us-1 with his pants hanging off his butt, and a gun plainly in view. did he have a flapped holster completely concealing the gun? i'm casting my vote for unlikely. i'm all for protecting our 2A rights, but a line has to be drawn. we can't imagine everyone that has a ccw is somehow "right", when they're clearly in the wrong. 2 blocks from the police hq was no place to get relaxed with your carry. carrying and sagging should never be your fashion statement. just my .02 cents, YMMV.
    Understood, few here have a friendly view toward "pants on the ground". However, the force used by the LEO's was unnecessary; but I am sure they think it was warranted due to our FL AG position that all private gun carry should be viewed by LEOs as unlawful conduct. The state manipulated the case to deprive him of a public defender. It may pave the way to Open Carry for us all. Certainly a case to watch.

  10. #160
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacecoast321 View Post
    It may pave the way to Open Carry for us all.
    THAT would an excellent resolution to this for sure.

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  11. #161
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    THAT would an excellent resolution to this for sure.

    AD
    I hate to be ixtow-ish negative. But again, I would be flabbergasted if it happened. Even licensed OC. What "liberal" judge(s) are going to do an end run around the legislature this way and catapult Florida into the "wild wild west" ?
    Last edited by 77zach; 01-14-2013 at 03:39 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  12. #162
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    ixtow-ish negative.
    "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw.

    On the up side, I'm liking the fact that a few people here are starting to take off their rose-tinted glasses and see the circumstances for how dire they really are.

    A dollar short and a day late, but at least it's happening.

    You cannot solve a problem if you refuse to admit what it is.

    It's sad that the FL Carry organization had to learn the hard way what I tried to tell them over and over again... It seemed almsot like they were a plant from the anti side, how they managed to get it wrong on purpose... But I see now they were merely naive. A degree of naivety I have been long rid of.

    You always lose when you don't realize what you're dealing with. Lots of people think I'm crazy, but it's only because I've had the wool removed from my eyes by some very horrific experiences. You SHOULD consider me the canary in the mineshaft. This extreme tyranny and corruption happens to somebody, it just happened to be me, and I'm the only one I know who lived to tell the tale. Denial and killing the messenger won't fix your country. Allowing your enemy to grow stronger will not give you the upper hand.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    The Florida 4th DCA just rejected the State AG's motion to dismiss our petition for them to take jurisdiction. I'll post updates as the arguments are filed.
    Any updates as far as taking it to the State Supreme Court per the judge's orders, "Get up Tallahassee and make them fix this law!" ?

    What kind of process and timeline is it to argue that oc is constitutional, cc is a privilege, therefor oc ban overturned by default?
    Anything happening legislatively that would get us anywhere closer to oc?
    I have a nice, blackened Colt Rail Gun that would like to see the light of day without fear of the gustapo. (im not bashing law enforcement as a whole, I am also a leo)

  14. #164
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michigan0626 View Post
    Any updates as far as taking it to the State Supreme Court per the judge's orders, "Get up Tallahassee and make them fix this law!" ?

    What kind of process and timeline is it to argue that oc is constitutional, cc is a privilege, therefor oc ban overturned by default?
    Anything happening legislatively that would get us anywhere closer to oc?
    I have a nice, blackened Colt Rail Gun that would like to see the light of day without fear of the gustapo. (im not bashing law enforcement as a whole, I am also a leo)
    Fl carry is still fighting and is a little less negative than I am, I think. I believe the extremely anti-gun Fl supreme court would give us unlicensed CC before any form of OC (assuming they hear anything), which means we'll get nothing except a solidification that there is no right to bear arms in Fl unless you're fishing.

    No attempt at a legislative fix this year because a mongoloid 1,200 miles away murdered some kids in a gun free zone. Don't ask me how it's relevant to our civil rights. In 2011, school carry was nixed because an underage drunk accidently killed a girl off campus with a rifle.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #165
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    --snip-- In 2011, school carry was nixed because an underage drunk accidently killed a girl off campus with a rifle.
    Any excuse in a storm
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #166
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Any excuse in a storm
    Pretty much.

    Nothing new on the Norman case. Oral arguments coming up soon. The case is in the 4th or 5th DCA, I forget which.

    It's the Mackey case that is before the FSC.
    Last edited by rvrctyrngr; 03-12-2013 at 11:21 AM.
    Director,
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  17. #167
    Regular Member Talesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I believe the extremely anti-gun Fl supreme court
    I am curious as to which justices sitting there do you consider anti-gun?

    Quite frankly I consider myself ignorant of their guns stance(s) but was quite pleased with their more liberal personal liberty rulings.

    To me it seems every time I get disgusted with them along comes a great ruling such as the one that SCOTUS recently overturned (alas) about searches using dogs.

  18. #168
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talesman View Post
    I am curious as to which justices sitting there do you consider anti-gun?

    Quite frankly I consider myself ignorant of their guns stance(s) but was quite pleased with their more liberal personal liberty rulings.

    To me it seems every time I get disgusted with them along comes a great ruling such as the one that SCOTUS recently overturned (alas) about searches using dogs.
    Which personal liberty rulings are you referring to? The Fl supreme court formally dispensed with mens rea a couple years ago, and also said we're officially guilty until proven innocent. Fl vs Adkins

    http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/n...OFLA_DRUGS.pdf

    You usually don't become a high ranking judge if you believe in liberty. Andrew Napolitano is 1/10,000.

    To answer your question, I don't know, I've forgotten. It could be just a general assumption/awareness. I'd be shocked if they came to the necessary conclusions about carry in Florida...assuming they ever hear it.
    Last edited by 77zach; 03-12-2013 at 08:59 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  19. #169
    Regular Member Talesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Which personal liberty rulings are you referring to? .


    In Florida v. Harris I was real proud of them for deciding like they did. That's because I was, at one time, a dog trainer, worked with high-ranking military K-9 folks as well as a few New England PD K-9 units and well recognize what the industry call "trick ponies" and the abuses of same (probable cause). FLSC used well-reasoned and well thought out logic when they reversed. Sadly, SCOTUS, who could care less about civil liberties when it comes to curbing cop abuses, overturned the FL decision and did so very curtly and never delved into the nitty gritty as did their FL counterparts.

    I'd cite a few more excellent civil liberty cases by FLSC but lost all of them due to a change in e-mail providers. I used to get their decisions e-mailed to me when they occured and those e-mail boxes are no longer accessible.

    Still am interested in which justices may be anti-gun or which cases you think should have been decided differently. Like I said, I am not really up to speed in that area. Also I don't recall any pro-gun advocates beating the drum for defeat of those several justices which were on the ballot last. Then, again, I wasn't haunting firearms forums at that time, hence my ignorance.
    Last edited by Talesman; 03-13-2013 at 03:16 PM.

  20. #170
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talesman View Post
    In Florida v. Harris I was real proud of them for deciding like they did. That's because I was, at one time, a dog trainer, worked with high-ranking military K-9 folks as well as a few New England PD K-9 units and well recognize what the industry call "trick ponies" and the abuses of same (probable cause). FLSC used well-reasoned and well thought out logic when they reversed. Sadly, SCOTUS, who could care less about civil liberties when it comes to curbing cop abuses, overturned the FL decision and did so very curtly and never delved into the nitty gritty as did their FL counterparts.

    I'd cite a few more excellent civil liberty cases by FLSC but lost all of them due to a change in e-mail providers. I used to get their decisions e-mailed to me when they occured and those e-mail boxes are no longer accessible.

    Still am interested in which justices may be anti-gun or which cases you think should have been decided differently. Like I said, I am not really up to speed in that area. Also I don't recall any pro-gun advocates beating the drum for defeat of those several justices which were on the ballot last. Then, again, I wasn't haunting firearms forums at that time, hence my ignorance.
    Well, that's a little encouraging. Still, Fl vs Adkins upends common sense and American legal tradition and says we're guilty until proven innocent and can be convicted of a crime even if we have no knowledge that we're committing the mala prohibitum. They did this because they were not about to undermine the legislature's obsession with outlawing certain drugs that some people like taking. Will they really circumvent the legislature and turn Fl into the "wild wild west" with OC? IMO, never.

    And if they did, I wonder if the state would obey the ruling. You are aware the FLSC gave constitutional carry (unlicensed carry) to all white adults in the state in Watson v. Stone, where the court overturned a conviction of a man who was carrying a pistol without a license. From Judge Buford's 1941 opinion:

    "I know something of the history of this legislation. The original Act of 1893 was passed when there was a great influx of African American laborers in this State drawn here for the purpose of working in turpentine and lumber camps. The same condition existed when the Act was amended in 1901 and the Act was passed for the purpose of disarming the African American laborers and to thereby reduce the unlawful homicides that were prevalent in turpentine and saw-mill camps and to give the white citizens in sparsely settled areas a better feeling of security. The statute was never intended to be applied to the white population and in practice has never been so applied."

    Obviously, the ruling is now ignored, and was being ignored as early as the 1960's.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  21. #171
    Regular Member Talesman's Avatar
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    Ok, 77zach I am going to peruse your cites and thanks for them.

  22. #172
    Regular Member transam86's Avatar
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    sad it is

    5 cops for 1 man whos legaly carrying? Some moron concerned citizen who just HAS TO USE THERE CELL PHONE and cant mind there own damn buisness. Probably the same moron who puts there 4 ways on in the rain. All I seen was the bottom of his holster no gun. I do hope open carry passes. My question is why did we loose it to begin with in 87???? Im new to florida 2 years and 2 years having my ccw and carry a springfield 45 13 + 1 .

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