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Thread: Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO

  1. #151
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    In the Empire of Lies...

    The truth is no defense. By all means, appeal. Expose this wicked system for what it is. Sounds like we don't have a choice, but to go through the courts. Marion Hammer and the NRA admitted they will not fix the problem. They're more concerned about privileges and making armed public servants happy as per her recent video interview.
    Last edited by 77zach; 08-14-2012 at 06:35 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  2. #152
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammer6 View Post
    ok, so i know the jury convicted him...but..if the legislature specifically made this law to apply to CWFL holders, and the jury said no, then wtf good is this law?

    it's now obvious per this judge's denial to dismiss, that citizens of florida are not getting equal protection under a law the florida legislature has enacted....

    i mean there's gotta be a situation or report from some CWFL holder about an incident in the past year where their gun was exposed, a cop saw it, and then politely told them to cover it up.

    i don't know if i make any sense...i'm just saying- what good is this law, made specifically for CWFL holders, if it's not enforced?

    honestly- the video we've seen shows us dale was OCing for about 14 seconds (he becomes visible on dash cam at the 20 second mark, and the cop approaching from the rear exits his vehicle at 34 seconds.). and only in 6 of those seconds do we see what "looks" like a gun, when he turns to face the cop at 34 seconds......if 14 seconds isn't brief, i don't know what is...


    IWIWAL
    Funny you should mention that. This from another forum today (sorry, no link)

    NICEVILLE - Police were summoned to a fast-food restaurant after receiving reports of a man displaying a gun.

    On July 21 the Niceville Police Department dispatched officers to the Chick-Fil-A on John Sims Parkway after*an employee*reported a man wearing an orange T-shirt and jeans, weighing about 350 pounds, with red hair, was armed with a handgun and displaying it inside the business.

    When they arrived officers found a man who matched the description and moved toward him. They asked the man to step outside so they could talk to him. The man said, "Before we do, can I show you something?" and reached toward his waistline. The officer grabbed his hand and told him not to reach toward his pants for any reason.

    An officer asked the man if he were armed with a gun. The man said he was and*had a concealed weapon permit. They went outside to continue the conversation.

    The officer removed the man's wallet from his back pocket so he could show them his weapons permit. The permit stipulates that the gun must not be visible and remain concealed at all times. The man said he made "a bad judgment call."

    The officers returned his documents and his gun, a .22-caliber revolver. Chick-Fil-A, however, didn't want him on the property and asked the officer to issue him a trespass warning.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

  3. #153
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    SO...............this means we dont have open carry? Whats next then? Appeal this discision to the Florida Supreme Court? How long for this?

  4. #154
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michigan0626 View Post
    SO...............this means we dont have open carry? Whats next then? Appeal this discision to the Florida Supreme Court? How long for this?
    You'll be too old to care. Move on with your life...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    The Forest is dead because the Trees are Dead.

    "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

    It's not that cops are crap, it's that crap is hand-picked for the job by much larger turds. I'd like to meet an exception.

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  5. #155
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    Has there been any movement on this case?

    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    What the Judge DID say to ME in open court was "Get up Tallahassee and make them fix this law!"
    I have checked FloridaCarry.org and also Googled with no additional information.
    Last information was - "The written order for Dale Norman's case is pending."
    Anything new?

  6. #156
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Mr. Norman was convicted of Open Carry of a firearm. Sentenced to probation and a small fine. His conviction is being appealed and now resides with the 4th DCA. The court denied the State's motion to dismiss the appeal yesterday.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

  7. #157
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    The court denied the State's motion to dismiss the appeal yesterday.
    Good idea not putting eggs in one basket, but I can't imagine the courts ever giving us OC. I would be astonished and my entire world view as it relates to the effectiveness of the legal system would have to be softened some. Sad that it's going to be such a struggle to get it though the Senate with 26 R's and one amenable Democrat.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  8. #158
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Good idea not putting eggs in one basket, but I can't imagine the courts ever giving us OC. I would be astonished and my entire world view as it relates to the effectiveness of the legal system would have to be softened some. Sad that it's going to be such a struggle to get it though the Senate with 26 R's and one amenable Democrat.
    Barriers are meant to be removed - never say never. Florida has had OC before.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  9. #159
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Barriers are meant to be removed - never say never. Florida has had OC before.
    Statements with "never", "always", and the like are destined to be proven wrong at some point. Never is forever, and nothing is forever.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

  10. #160
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-the-People View Post
    Statements with "never", "always", and the like are destined to be proven wrong at some point. Never is forever, and nothing is forever.
    I always ain't never gonna say that no more.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  11. #161
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Barriers are meant to be removed - never say never. Florida has had OC before.
    Kinda sorta.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

  12. #162
    Regular Member MNMGoneShooting's Avatar
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    Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I always ain't never gonna say that no more.
    I never understood why there is always a wise guy lurking on these forums.

  13. #163
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNMGoneShooting View Post
    I never understood why there is always a wise guy lurking on these forums.
    There is no substance where none is sought.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  14. #164
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    The Florida 4th DCA just rejected the State AG's motion to dismiss our petition for them to take jurisdiction. I'll post updates as the arguments are filed.

  15. #165
    Regular Member Golden-Arm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Actually, he wasn't wearing a belt so it's quite possible his shirt covered the holster until his shorts began to ride down. Nonetheless, the prosecution will have to prove his firearm was visible, not his holster.
    likely to be unpopular here, but my take is:
    my favorite restaurant there!! Lol his "pants riding down" are no accident. his "sag" got his ass busted. he couldnt have imagined this was going to end well, walking down us-1 with his pants hanging off his butt, and a gun plainly in view. did he have a flapped holster completely concealing the gun? i'm casting my vote for unlikely. i'm all for protecting our 2A rights, but a line has to be drawn. we can't imagine everyone that has a ccw is somehow "right", when they're clearly in the wrong. 2 blocks from the police hq was no place to get relaxed with your carry. carrying and sagging should never be your fashion statement. just my .02 cents, YMMV.
    Last edited by Golden-Arm; 01-13-2013 at 10:21 PM.

  16. #166
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    Path to Open Carry in FL

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Arm View Post
    likely to be unpopular here, but my take is:
    my favorite restaurant there!! Lol his "pants riding down" are no accident. his "sag" got his ass busted. he couldnt have imagined this was going to end well, walking down us-1 with his pants hanging off his butt, and a gun plainly in view. did he have a flapped holster completely concealing the gun? i'm casting my vote for unlikely. i'm all for protecting our 2A rights, but a line has to be drawn. we can't imagine everyone that has a ccw is somehow "right", when they're clearly in the wrong. 2 blocks from the police hq was no place to get relaxed with your carry. carrying and sagging should never be your fashion statement. just my .02 cents, YMMV.
    Understood, few here have a friendly view toward "pants on the ground". However, the force used by the LEO's was unnecessary; but I am sure they think it was warranted due to our FL AG position that all private gun carry should be viewed by LEOs as unlawful conduct. The state manipulated the case to deprive him of a public defender. It may pave the way to Open Carry for us all. Certainly a case to watch.

  17. #167
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacecoast321 View Post
    It may pave the way to Open Carry for us all.
    THAT would an excellent resolution to this for sure.

    AD
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  18. #168
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    THAT would an excellent resolution to this for sure.

    AD
    I hate to be ixtow-ish negative. But again, I would be flabbergasted if it happened. Even licensed OC. What "liberal" judge(s) are going to do an end run around the legislature this way and catapult Florida into the "wild wild west" ?
    Last edited by 77zach; 01-14-2013 at 02:39 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  19. #169
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    ixtow-ish negative.
    "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw.

    On the up side, I'm liking the fact that a few people here are starting to take off their rose-tinted glasses and see the circumstances for how dire they really are.

    A dollar short and a day late, but at least it's happening.

    You cannot solve a problem if you refuse to admit what it is.

    It's sad that the FL Carry organization had to learn the hard way what I tried to tell them over and over again... It seemed almsot like they were a plant from the anti side, how they managed to get it wrong on purpose... But I see now they were merely naive. A degree of naivety I have been long rid of.

    You always lose when you don't realize what you're dealing with. Lots of people think I'm crazy, but it's only because I've had the wool removed from my eyes by some very horrific experiences. You SHOULD consider me the canary in the mineshaft. This extreme tyranny and corruption happens to somebody, it just happened to be me, and I'm the only one I know who lived to tell the tale. Denial and killing the messenger won't fix your country. Allowing your enemy to grow stronger will not give you the upper hand.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    The Forest is dead because the Trees are Dead.

    "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine

    It's not that cops are crap, it's that crap is hand-picked for the job by much larger turds. I'd like to meet an exception.

    gunthreadadapters.com

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    The Florida 4th DCA just rejected the State AG's motion to dismiss our petition for them to take jurisdiction. I'll post updates as the arguments are filed.
    Any updates as far as taking it to the State Supreme Court per the judge's orders, "Get up Tallahassee and make them fix this law!" ?

    What kind of process and timeline is it to argue that oc is constitutional, cc is a privilege, therefor oc ban overturned by default?
    Anything happening legislatively that would get us anywhere closer to oc?
    I have a nice, blackened Colt Rail Gun that would like to see the light of day without fear of the gustapo. (im not bashing law enforcement as a whole, I am also a leo)

  21. #171
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michigan0626 View Post
    Any updates as far as taking it to the State Supreme Court per the judge's orders, "Get up Tallahassee and make them fix this law!" ?

    What kind of process and timeline is it to argue that oc is constitutional, cc is a privilege, therefor oc ban overturned by default?
    Anything happening legislatively that would get us anywhere closer to oc?
    I have a nice, blackened Colt Rail Gun that would like to see the light of day without fear of the gustapo. (im not bashing law enforcement as a whole, I am also a leo)
    Fl carry is still fighting and is a little less negative than I am, I think. I believe the extremely anti-gun Fl supreme court would give us unlicensed CC before any form of OC (assuming they hear anything), which means we'll get nothing except a solidification that there is no right to bear arms in Fl unless you're fishing.

    No attempt at a legislative fix this year because a mongoloid 1,200 miles away murdered some kids in a gun free zone. Don't ask me how it's relevant to our civil rights. In 2011, school carry was nixed because an underage drunk accidently killed a girl off campus with a rifle.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  22. #172
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    --snip-- In 2011, school carry was nixed because an underage drunk accidently killed a girl off campus with a rifle.
    Any excuse in a storm
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  23. #173
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Any excuse in a storm
    Pretty much.

    Nothing new on the Norman case. Oral arguments coming up soon. The case is in the 4th or 5th DCA, I forget which.

    It's the Mackey case that is before the FSC.
    Last edited by rvrctyrngr; 03-12-2013 at 10:21 AM.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

  24. #174
    Regular Member Talesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I believe the extremely anti-gun Fl supreme court
    I am curious as to which justices sitting there do you consider anti-gun?

    Quite frankly I consider myself ignorant of their guns stance(s) but was quite pleased with their more liberal personal liberty rulings.

    To me it seems every time I get disgusted with them along comes a great ruling such as the one that SCOTUS recently overturned (alas) about searches using dogs.

  25. #175
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talesman View Post
    I am curious as to which justices sitting there do you consider anti-gun?

    Quite frankly I consider myself ignorant of their guns stance(s) but was quite pleased with their more liberal personal liberty rulings.

    To me it seems every time I get disgusted with them along comes a great ruling such as the one that SCOTUS recently overturned (alas) about searches using dogs.
    Which personal liberty rulings are you referring to? The Fl supreme court formally dispensed with mens rea a couple years ago, and also said we're officially guilty until proven innocent. Fl vs Adkins

    http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/n...OFLA_DRUGS.pdf

    You usually don't become a high ranking judge if you believe in liberty. Andrew Napolitano is 1/10,000.

    To answer your question, I don't know, I've forgotten. It could be just a general assumption/awareness. I'd be shocked if they came to the necessary conclusions about carry in Florida...assuming they ever hear it.
    Last edited by 77zach; 03-12-2013 at 07:59 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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