• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Another Arrested for Accidental Exposure in Florida - With VIDEO

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
The Judge will issue his order on Aug 14th. I testified in this case (extensively) and can not comment further at this time.
Thank you for understanding.

Regardless of outcome, the case will be appealed by either side. Florida Carry will support Mr. Norman's case and substantially provide for his appellate work.
Please support our work on this case.

Maybe it's because I'm using foxit reader, but there are many syntax and punctuation errors.

Airtight case, very well written. Unfortunately, truth is no defense in the empire of lies.

Recently in the Adkins case, the Fl supreme court dispensed with presumption of innocence and mens rea. They obviously have an intense hatred of basic, essential freedoms and would never bypass the legislature on licensed open carry, much less unlicensed.

It's still an exciting case though, I congratulate Fl carry on exposing the state's criminality.

On the off chance this judge rules according to reason, I assume the state would get a stay?

Since Rick Scott is supposedly so pro gun and pro OC, can the he or attorney general stop the state from appealing at some point? I'm ignorant on how the system works.
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
The Judge will issue his order on Aug 14th. I testified in this case (extensively) and can not comment further at this time.
Thank you for understanding.

Regardless of outcome, the case will be appealed by either side. Florida Carry will support Mr. Norman's case and substantially provide for his appellate work.
Please support our work on this case.


II. FLORIDA STATUTE 790.053 IS OVERBRAOD IN THAT IT CRIMINALIZES BEHAVIOR THAT IS CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED

overboard**

or

over broad
 
Last edited:

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
There are many mistakes.

yeah, but that was the only spelling error i saw....

i think the grammatical mistakes were due to the formatting of the file...idk though. i'm not a lawyer or an english teacher.
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Judge Cliff Barnes

It sounds like he may be somewhat reasonable, taking a stand against the state's corruption before. I guess it doesn't matter since it will be appealed by the gov-crims even if he sides with reason. It may give a future government court more trouble explaining why the government's law is constitutional.
 

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Motion two will be denied. It's objectively air tight, but the judge will continue the tradition of failing to recognize a difference between a right and a privilege. He'll essentially claim they mean the same thing and that our "right" is established in the licensing scheme for concealed carry. The "right" is just "tailored" a little to ensure "public safety".

Motion one will be more difficult for the courts to get out of. Without a definition of "briefly", they're going to have to get more creative. Eloquent bullshiit takes time to write up. The final denial could be years away, I think.... Hopefully, there will be a legislative solution in the meantime.
 

Rich7553

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
515
Location
SWFL
Motion two will be denied. It's objectively air tight, but the judge will continue the tradition of failing to recognize a difference between a right and a privilege. He'll essentially claim they mean the same thing and that our "right" is established in the licensing scheme for concealed carry. The "right" is just "tailored" a little to ensure "public safety".

Motion one will be more difficult for the courts to get out of. Without a definition of "briefly", they're going to have to get more creative. Eloquent bullshiit takes time to write up. The final denial could be years away, I think.... Hopefully, there will be a legislative solution in the meantime.

Then he'd be ignoring established case law. There are two cases I can think of in which the court specifically stated that licensed concealed carry is a privilege and not a right.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
Then he'd be ignoring established case law.

Overturning Precedent. Ignoring reality... Call it what you will... Say it too loud and you'll be alligator chow courtesy of the FSA. Try to remember that the Judicial branch includes the LEOs and the Courts... There is no incentive to practice any form of checks/balances. They've ignored far more already; the Bill of Rights. What makes you think they won't ignore this piddly crap?

Florida has the most corruption in LE and Politics of any state. Especially in the Judicial and Legislative branches. They get away with it because they leave no witnesses. Just some crazy guy who left the country because he knew his luck (and modest skill) would eventually run out...
 
Last edited:

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Then he'd be ignoring established case law. There are two cases I can think of in which the court specifically stated that licensed concealed carry is a privilege and not a right.

You've cornered the State, Rich. They have no legitimate out on either motion. I understand.

Unfortunately they're not going to play by the rules. OC sounds crazy to the uneducated statist in 2012, and these judges are no exception. The Fl supreme court will see it as a civic duty to lie in order to protect the legislature and keep Fl from descending into the "wild, wild west".

A court in 2012 would be much more likely to give us unlicensed CC than any form of OC. Hope I'm mistaken.
 
Last edited:

Mas49.56

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
308
Location
Florida, USA
The Judge will issue his order on Aug 14th. I testified in this case (extensively) and can not comment further at this time.Thank you for understanding.Regardless of outcome, the case will be appealed by either side. Florida Carry will support Mr. Norman's case and substantially provide for his appellate work.Please support our work on this case.
Donation sent StogieC!Keep up the good work!
 

michigan0626

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
51
Location
Central Florida
This is THE open carry case for FL. The precedent it sets will be critical going forward nationwide.

Could this be the potential catalyst for a possible SCOTUS case making any regulation of open carry unconstitutional, whether from Florida or branched out to a different state. I just worry for the time being about when Florida can get open carry back. However, if this could get appealed all the way to SCOTUS, and they rule that the 2A allows for open carry nationwide with zero ability of states to regulate it, that would be the single greatest victory for 2A since the 2A was written. How many years and millions of dollars would it take for this possibly play out?
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
Could this be the potential catalyst for a possible SCOTUS case making any regulation of open carry unconstitutional, whether from Florida or branched out to a different state. I just worry for the time being about when Florida can get open carry back. However, if this could get appealed all the way to SCOTUS, and they rule that the 2A allows for open carry nationwide with zero ability of states to regulate it, that would be the single greatest victory for 2A since the 2A was written. How many years and millions of dollars would it take for this possibly play out?



8 years and $865 million.

Approximately.

IANAL

IANAM
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
....soooooooo...

1194986541442028018ear_-_body_part_nicu_buc_01.svg.med.png
??????
 

StogieC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
745
Location
Florida
All motions to dismiss denied without written order. The denial was based on the courts findings that the statute is facially overbroad and is facially vague, but not necessarily as applied in this case. (The court errors by reversing the standard here.)
The judge also did not fully consider the Second Amendment question and denied it because that question "is for someone above the level of this court".

The prosecution them stipulated to a withhold of adjudication and a fine. (Possibly trying to dissuade us from appealing.)

The written order is pending. We are asking the judge to certify the constitutional questions directly to the District Court of Appeals as matters of great public importance.

Florida Carry is providing for the continued defense of Dale Norman and seeks to clarify what the right to bear arms is in Florida.

Florida courts have clearly acknowledged that the carrying of a concealed firearm in Florida is a privilege not a right.

The Florida 3rd District Court of Appeals found that: “[R]etroactive application of section 790.06(2)(k), Florida Statutes, is not unconstitutional because a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm is a privilege and not a vested right. See Mayo v. Market Fruit Co. of Sanford, 40 So.2d 555 (Fla. 1949).” Crane v. Department of State, 547 So. 2d 266 (Fla. 1989).

The “privilege of a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm”recognized In Crane cannot replace, or substitute for, the fundamental right guaranteed by the Second Amendment or Article I Section 8 of the Florida Constitution.

Florida’s open carry ban is precisely the scenario that the Alabama Supreme Court warned against and the United States Supreme Court used as its justification for overturning the DC handgun ban.

“But the court say that it is a matter which will not admit of legislative regulation, and in order to test the correctness of its opinion, supposes one Legislature to prohibit the bearing arms secretly, and a subsequent Legislature to enact a law against bearing them openly; and then asks the question, whether the first, or last enactment would be unconstitutional. Under the provision of our constitution, we incline to the opinion that the Legislature cannot inhibit the citizen from bearing arms openly, because it authorizes him to bear them for the purposes of defending himself and the State, and it is only when carried openly, that they can be efficiently used for defence.” State v. Reid, 1 Ala. 612, 616-617 (1840).

It would be nonsensical for the United States Supreme Court to have found such persuasive support for its Heller and McDonald positions in Nunn v. State, Andrews v. State, State v. Reid, and State v. Chandler yet still reject the result of all of these cases that bans on open carry are unconstitutional.
 
Last edited:

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
All motions to dismiss denied without written order. The denial was based on the courts findings that the statute is facially overbroad and is facially vague, but not necessarily as applied in this case. (The court errors by reversing the standard here.)
The judge also did not fully consider the Second Amendment question and denied it because that question "is for someone above the level of this court".

The prosecution them stipulated to a withhold of adjudication and a fine. (Possibly trying to dissuade us from appealing.)

The written order is pending. We are asking the judge to certify the constitutional questions directly to the District Court of Appeals as matters of great public importance.

Florida Carry is providing for the continued defense of Dale Norman and seeks to clarify what the right to bear arms is in Florida.

Florida courts have clearly acknowledged that the carrying of a concealed firearm in Florida is a privilege not a right.

The Florida 3rd District Court of Appeals found that: “[R]etroactive application of section 790.06(2)(k), Florida Statutes, is not unconstitutional because a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm is a privilege and not a vested right. See Mayo v. Market Fruit Co. of Sanford, 40 So.2d 555 (Fla. 1949).” Crane v. Department of State, 547 So. 2d 266 (Fla. 1989).

The “privilege of a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm”recognized In Crane cannot replace, or substitute for, the fundamental right guaranteed by the Second Amendment or Article I Section 8 of the Florida Constitution.

Florida’s open carry ban is precisely the scenario that the Alabama Supreme Court warned against and the United States Supreme Court used as its justification for overturning the DC handgun ban.

“But the court say that it is a matter which will not admit of legislative regulation, and in order to test the correctness of its opinion, supposes one Legislature to prohibit the bearing arms secretly, and a subsequent Legislature to enact a law against bearing them openly; and then asks the question, whether the first, or last enactment would be unconstitutional. Under the provision of our constitution, we incline to the opinion that the Legislature cannot inhibit the citizen from bearing arms openly, because it authorizes him to bear them for the purposes of defending himself and the State, and it is only when carried openly, that they can be efficiently used for defence.” State v. Reid, 1 Ala. 612, 616-617 (1840).

It would be nonsensical for the United States Supreme Court to have found such persuasive support for its Heller and McDonald positions in Nunn v. State, Andrews v. State, State v. Reid, and State v. Chandler yet still reject the result of all of these cases that bans on open carry are unconstitutional.

Allow me to paraphrase what the judge said...ahem:

"go **** yourself"
 
Top