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Thread: Disorderly conduct, Public nuisance questions

  1. #1
    Regular Member bowb's Avatar
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    Disorderly conduct, Public nuisance questions

    I have been looking into how to handle the situation where an leo threatens with disorderly conduct or public nuisance for open carry. This seems to be a tactic that seems to be used quite often by leos. I have seen videos with this tactic being used, and not wanting to get arrested the open carrier acquiesces. Where state law does not specifically state that openly carrying a firearm is not disorderly conduct, if arrested what would be the proper defense/or what verbal ninja tricks could be used to be free to go about your business?

    It seems that if I were to stand my ground when threatened with DC/Public nuisance that I would likely end up getting arrested and would have to pay to play.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Hard to find a good citation, but - -
    City of Boise

    Section 6-01-05 DISORDERLY CONDUCT
    Any person who violates the provisions below is guilty of a misdemeanor:
    A. Occupying, lodging or sleeping in any building, structure or place, whether public or
    private, or in any motor vehicle without the permission of the owner or person entitled to
    possession or in control thereof; or
    B. Loitering, prowling or wandering upon the private property of another, without lawful
    business, permission or invitation by the owner or the lawful occupants thereof; or
    C. Loitering or remaining in or about school grounds or buildings, without having any
    reason or relationship involving custody of or responsibility for a pupil or student, school
    authorized functions, activities or use.
    (6501, Repealed & Replaced, 08/29/2006; 5378, Amended, 03/10/1992)

    Section 6-01-09 DISTURBING THE PEACE
    Every person who maliciously and willfully disturbs the peace or quiet of any neighborhood,
    family or person, by loud or unusual noise, or by tumultuous or offensive conduct, or by threatening,
    traducing, quarreling, challenging to fight or fighting, or fires any gun or pistol, is guilty of a
    misdemeanor.
    (6501, Repealed & Replaced, 08/29/2006; 1922, Added, 01/01/1922, 1922 Code, Sec. 589; 1936 Code, Sec. 4-1208; 1952 Code,
    Sec. 19-1108)
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 06-04-2012 at 10:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    This appears to be the Weiser City code

    6_6_3: WEAPONS:
    A. Display of Weapons: It shall be unlawful to display any weapon in a threatening manner or to display any weapon in a manner designed to induce a person to commit an act against his or her will.
    B. Discharge of Weapons: It shall be unlawful to discharge any firearm or fire a gun, BB gun or any toy gun projecting lead or any missiles excepting in a regularly established shooting gallery.
    C. Exceptions: Nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit any officer of the law from discharging a firearm in the performance of his duty nor to any citizen from discharging a firearm when lawfully defending his person or property.
    D. Penalty: Any person violating any of the provisions herein contained shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to the penalties provided therefor.
    (Ord. 826, 5_10_73; 1987 Code)

    6_6_5: DISORDERLY CONDUCT:

    A. Any person who shall be guilty of any violent, noisy, riotous or disorderly conduct or who shall use any profane, abusive or obscene language, or in any way commits a breach of the peace, or do anything that shall be offensive to the senses or dangerous to the peace of the inhabitants of the City shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor.

    B. Every person shall be guilty of disorderly conduct when he:
    1. Solicits anyone to engage in, or engages in, lewd or dissolute conduct in any public place or in any place open to the public or exposed to public view; or
    2. Accosts other persons in any public place or in any place open to the public for the purpose of begging or soliciting alms; or
    3. Loiters in, about or upon any street, alley or other public way or public place, or in any place open to the public without lawful business and conducting himself in a lewd, wanton or lascivious manner in speech or behavior; or
    4. Has upon his person or in his possession any instrument, tool or other implement for picking locks or pockets or any implement that is usually employed or that reasonably may be inferred to have been designed to be employed in the commission of any felony, misdemeanor or the violation of any ordinance, and who shall fail to account for the possession of same; or
    5. Loiters, remains or wanders upon the streets or from place to place without apparent reason or business and who refuses to identify himself and to account for his presence when requested by a police officer to do so, if the surrounding circumstances are such to indicate to a reasonable man that the public safety demands such identification; or
    6. Occupies, lodges or sleeps in any building, structure or place, whether public or private, or any automobile, truck, railroad car or other similar vehicles or equipment without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control thereof; or
    7. Loiters, prowls or wanders upon the private property of another, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupants thereof; or
    8. Loiters or remains in or about a school, not having any reason or relationship involving custody of or responsibility for a pupil or student, or any other specific, legitimate reason for being there, and not having written permission from anyone authorized to grant the same.

    C. A person shall commit a misdemeanor if he loiters, prowls, remains or wanders in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals under circumstances that warrant alarm for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity. Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm is warranted is the fact that the actor takes flight upon appearance of a police officer, refuses to identify himself and manifestly endeavors or by deliberate furtive action attempts to conceal himself or any object. Unless flight by the actor or other circumstances make it impractical, a police officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this Section, afford the actor an opportunity to dispel alarm which would otherwise be warranted, by requesting him to identify himself and explain his presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this Section if the police officer did not comply with the preceding sentence, or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the actor was true and, if believed by the police officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm.

    D. Any person who commits any of the acts prescribed and defined by subsection B of this Section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. (Ord. 884,3_12_79)

  4. #4
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Searching the Idaho Code doesn't reveal a "Disorderly Conduct" statute* but there is a statute on "Disturbing the Peace", but only in relation to riots - -
    18-6401. Riot defined. Any action, use of force or violence, or threat thereof, disturbing the public peace, or any threat to use such force or violence, if accompanied by immediate power of execution, by two (2) or more persons acting together, and without authority of law, which results in:
    (a) physical injury to any person; or
    (b) damage or destruction to public or private property; or
    (c) a disturbance of the public peace;
    is a riot.


    *at least it doesn't so far.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 06-04-2012 at 10:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member bowb's Avatar
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    I'm in Idaho Falls and the city code follows:
    5-22-1: PUBLIC NUISANCE DEFINED:

    Anything which is injurious to health, or is indecent, or offensive to the senses, or obstructs the free use of property, interferes with the comfortable enjoyment of life or property by an entire community or neighborhood, or by any substantial number of persons, or unlawfully obstructs the free passage or use, in the customary manner, of any navigable lake, river, stream, canal or basin, or any public park, square, street, or highway, is a public nuisance.

    5-23-5: DISTURBING THE PEACE:

    Any person who disturbs the peace and quiet of another or of any neighborhood, family, congregation or other assembly by causing loud, repetitive or high pitched noises, flashing lights, vibration or by using, operating or controlling sound amplification or reproduction equipment that emits sound that is plainly audible at a distance of fifty (50) feet or more from its source or by engaging in or causing any other annoying or unusual activity, is guilty of an infraction. (Ord 2849, 10-28-10)

    Similar to the Boise code, it addresses items that are "offensive" "unusual" "annoying", which is what the leo's in the videos I have watched try to assert.

    As I see it these are possible outcomes if an leo tries this tactic:
    1. Stand your position and get arrested.
    2. Back down, and do what the officer says.
    3. Leo realizes they are wrong and allows you to go on with your business.
    4???

    I am trying to determine how I would play.

  6. #6
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    The choice is yours.

    If I know I'm not breaking any law then I will stand my ground. That being said if an officer wants to he will arrest you. You take your chances and deal with the aftermath. An officer acting in such a way opens himself up to civil action for deprivation of rights. That being said if you just want to avoid being arrested you may just want to avoid carrying all together. Even safer... just stay in your house behind locked doors. That will work unless someone who doesn't like you says you're selling drugs and the police get a no knock warrant and kick the door in at 3am. Good luck.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  7. #7
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Basically, don't TRY to get arrested, but don't carry if you're AFRAID of getting arrested.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowb View Post
    I'm in Idaho Falls and the city code follows:
    5-22-1: PUBLIC NUISANCE DEFINED:
    Carrying an inanimate object isn't injurious to health, and 'offensive to the senses' means something with a noxious smell, or blindingly bright, intolerably hot, etc. not a tie with a horrible pattern on it. Likewise your carrying shouldn't obstruct anyone else from freely traversing anywhere.
    You would be safe from such a charge.

    5-23-5: DISTURBING THE PEACE:
    Unless you're firing the pistol without cause, it's not going to cause any loud noises or have any sort of flash. Carrying a holstered pistol is no more annoying, in and of itself, than carrying a pencil in your pocket, or wearing a yellow shirt with purple polka dots (which would be Very unusual as I've Never, Ever seen anyone wear such a monstrosity.) Have you ever seen anyone in the USA walking their pet koala on a leash? No? That would be an unusual activity then, right? Think someone should receive a citation for doing so?

    Not standing one's ground can only encourage more intrusions against one's ground.

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    garden city

    I was hand cuffed detained and disarmed in garden city. Police were extremely rude and dont know how to listen. Then the superior tried to get me arrested. Went in fishing for someone to press charges on me. Eventually i was let go.

  10. #10
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    garden city.

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...94#post1888594

    4-12-4 DISORDERLY CONDUCT Any person who shall commit any violent, noisy, or riotous conduct, or who shall use any profane, abusive or obscene language, or in any way commit a breach of the peace, or do anything that shall be dangerous to the inhabitants of the city shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor. A violation may include, but not be limited to, the following: A. Accosting other persons or person in any public place or in any place open to the public for the purpose of begging or soliciting alms; or B. Occupying, lodging or sleeping in any building, structure or place, whether public or private, or any automobile, truck, railroad car or other similar vehicles or equipment without the permission of the owner or person entitled to the possession or in control thereof; or C. Loitering, prowling or wandering upon the private property of another without lawful business, permission or invitation by the owner or the lawful occupants thereof; or D. Wilfully fleeing or attempting to elude a police officer after being lawfully ordered to stop by an identified peace officer of the state of Idaho. (Ord. 629, 10-11-1994)

  11. #11
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nny420 View Post
    I was hand cuffed detained and disarmed in garden city. Police were extremely rude and don't know how to listen. Then the superior tried to get me arrested. Went in fishing for someone to press charges on me. Eventually i was let go.
    The police are trained NOT to listen (iow, not to be distracted or mislead by utterances of those they are investigating.)
    I've always advocated for cooperation. Obviously you were an unscheduled distraction from their otherwise mundane duties; I recommend coordinating with them, say .... asking if they're working next Tuesday and letting them know ahead of time that you'll be at the corner of 5th and Dime or at Starbucks at a certain time. Be accommodating, they have literally hundreds of citizens to benevolently watch over and politely offering to share calendars can make things easier on everyone.

    BTW, I'm a huge advocate of scheduling these sorts of meetings on Tuesdays, that way I can always finish off an encounter with, "Bye Officer, see you next Tuesday."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-28-2013 at 12:40 AM.

  12. #12
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    not just uttering

    See you next tuesday hahahahahah that one really got me!!!! I could be more cooperative at times. I typically refuse any information.

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