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Thread: Close call!! - Road Rage against OCDO member

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    Post Close call!! - Road Rage against OCDO member

    Yesterday I was driving behind a man that was doing 18 MPH in a 40. Needless to say I was a bit annoyed and of course was on my way to a work related appointment. After about 5 miles or so of following this guy I pressed my horn and then he turned off the road. I looked in my rearview mirror and saw him rolling up behind me and then he began tailgating me. I drove for less than a mile to reach my stop and then I pulled in a driveway but not all the way because the A-Hole was still on my bumper. Once I got in the driveway before I could even put the car in park I see this bald headed middle aged man pull in behind me and he flew out of his car...(you can see where this is headed huh?) This guy had a cell phone case on his hip but as he ran up to my car I couldnt tell if it was a gun/knife holster or a cell phone case. I stayed in my seat and cracked the window as he ran up on me. As he got closer I saw he had a look on his face like he wanted to kill me. Once he reached my window he said "What the F*ck is your problem!).....Then he noticed Mr. Glock sitting on my lap. I made solid eye contact with him and said "I think you should leave now." Man, I think I saw smoke and spraks coming from his shoes he ran back to his car so fast. I do believe that had I not been OC-ing in my car he would have tried to pull me out of the car or something along those lines. Before you guys start this was not an act of Branishing a firearm due to the fact that i was already OC-ing and I never pointed or even mentioned my firearm.....but the bald headed freak got the message. So who needs a gun in their car????-ME

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4guns View Post
    Yesterday I was driving behind a man that was doing 18 MPH in a 40. Needless to say I was a bit annoyed and of course was on my way to a work related appointment. After about 5 miles or so of following this guy I pressed my horn and then he turned off the road. I looked in my rearview mirror and saw him rolling up behind me and then he began tailgating me. I drove for less than a mile to reach my stop and then I pulled in a driveway but not all the way because the A-Hole was still on my bumper. Once I got in the driveway before I could even put the car in park I see this bald headed middle aged man pull in behind me and he flew out of his car...(you can see where this is headed huh?) This guy had a cell phone case on his hip but as he ran up to my car I couldnt tell if it was a gun/knife holster or a cell phone case. I stayed in my seat and cracked the window as he ran up on me. As he got closer I saw he had a look on his face like he wanted to kill me. Once he reached my window he said "What the F*ck is your problem!).....Then he noticed Mr. Glock sitting on my lap. I made solid eye contact with him and said "I think you should leave now." Man, I think I saw smoke and spraks coming from his shoes he ran back to his car so fast. I do believe that had I not been OC-ing in my car he would have tried to pull me out of the car or something along those lines. Before you guys start this was not an act of Branishing a firearm due to the fact that i was already OC-ing and I never pointed or even mentioned my firearm.....but the bald headed freak got the message. So who needs a gun in their car????-ME
    You did fine and no, it wasn't brandishing.

    I had an almost identical situation not too long ago except the idiot threw his truck in reverse and tried to back into me.

    I got out though and left my gun on the seat....but that's just me.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    @OP...

    just curious, was your sidearm in a holster, or in the glovebox or console, or on the passenger seat or dashboard, before it was in your lap?

    also did you call leo and make a report of the guy's tailgating and threatening behavior? he might have called on you.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    And yet there are some who say that case law says that if you took the Glock out of the holster and put it in your lap with the intention that Mr. Motorist would see it there, that you did in fact brandish. Thus, we have attorneys making a living off of folks who cannot agree to play nice together.

    At least you did not use a finger to point towards it.

    This is another of the bazillion and three reasons why the brandishing law needs to be cleaned up. And why that law about "aggressive driving" needs to be done away with.

    Where, in this perfect world, were the cops to deal with Mr. Motorist and the fact that he was driving 10 0r more miles per hour under the posted speed limit without having his 4-way flashers activated and an approved "slow moving vehicle" banner tied across his back end or one of those slow-moving vehicle triangles prominently displayed on the rear of his hooptie?

    Driving too slow without appropriate warning/signage, is just as reckless as driving too fast. But can you get a cop interested?

    stay safe.
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  5. #5
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Virginia Vehicle Code uses the same words as does Wisconsin.

    Code of Virginia § 46.2-877. Minimum speed limits. No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

    Wisconsin Statutes §346.59(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at a speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or is necessary to comply with the law.

    The posted maximum speed limit is not the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. The burden is to give way on request, and the overtaking vehicle is burdened to do so safely and legally.

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    Did you notify the police? There was an incident in PA where a motorist had to draw his weapon to defend himself, and the aggressor called the police first, filed a false report, and the GG was charged and had to go to trial... I know you didn't draw, but you never know what stories this guy could have told the police. Here is the link to the story from PA.

    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...elf-doing.html

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Why would you stay behind someone driving 18 in a 40 for five miles, then when you were less than a mile from your destination (a driveway?) honk for him to pull over?
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member MagiK_SacK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4guns View Post
    Yesterday I was driving behind a man that was doing 18 MPH in a 40. Needless to say I was a bit annoyed and of course was on my way to a work related appointment. After about 5 miles or so of following this guy I pressed my horn and then he turned off the road. I looked in my rearview mirror and saw him rolling up behind me and then he began tailgating me. I drove for less than a mile to reach my stop and then I pulled in a driveway but not all the way because the A-Hole was still on my bumper. Once I got in the driveway before I could even put the car in park I see this bald headed middle aged man pull in behind me and he flew out of his car...(you can see where this is headed huh?) This guy had a cell phone case on his hip but as he ran up to my car I couldnt tell if it was a gun/knife holster or a cell phone case. I stayed in my seat and cracked the window as he ran up on me. As he got closer I saw he had a look on his face like he wanted to kill me. Once he reached my window he said "What the F*ck is your problem!).....Then he noticed Mr. Glock sitting on my lap. I made solid eye contact with him and said "I think you should leave now." Man, I think I saw smoke and spraks coming from his shoes he ran back to his car so fast. I do believe that had I not been OC-ing in my car he would have tried to pull me out of the car or something along those lines. Before you guys start this was not an act of Branishing a firearm due to the fact that i was already OC-ing and I never pointed or even mentioned my firearm.....but the bald headed freak got the message. So who needs a gun in their car????-ME
    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    Why would you stay behind someone driving 18 in a 40 for five miles, then when you were less than a mile from your destination (a driveway?) honk for him to pull over?
    You should read the OP again. You misread what was stated. The OP honked to out of annoyance which clearly upset the other person. When the OP saw that he might have angered the other person he, as far as I understand, pulled into A driveway (as to indicate not the one he was headed to) as to not let the aggressor know where his final destination was.
    .45 ACP - Because shooting twice is silly

    A cop pulled me over and said, "Papers..." So I said "Scissors, I win!" and drove away.

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagiK_SacK View Post
    You should read the OP again. You misread what was stated. The OP honked to out of annoyance which clearly upset the other person. When the OP saw that he might have angered the other person he, as far as I understand, pulled into A driveway (as to indicate not the one he was headed to) as to not let the aggressor know where his final destination was.
    I don't think my question is invalid, though. He was less than a mile from his final destination. After he passed the guy, with less than a mile to go, he stopped in an unrelated driveway, possibly, to mislead the tailgater. BUT this resulted in him being pinned. If it wasn't his final destination, why did he put the car in park, further pinning himself in. This all makes no sense to me.

    Also, who is patient for 5 miles before honking to indicate they were annoyed or wanted to pass? At 18 miles per hour that's more than 15 minutes driving at a snail's pace. I don't think we're getting the whole story.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    I think a lot of these kind of "incidents" leave out the first part about "this guys was going the speed limit and a tailgated him within 10 inches of his bumper because I was pissed and couldn't find a place to pass. Then the jerk began slowing down more and more).


    I don't claim this is what the OP did just what seems to happen to me once in a while.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    there are some who say that case law says that if you took the Glock out of the holster and put it in your lap with the intention that Mr. Motorist would see it there, that you did in fact brandish.
    ageed.

    Once I passed and the guy was on my bumper.. I would have called it in.. explained the situation on THEIR recorded call as well as my audio recorder that would have already been on to record the acceleration of the pass, the honk, the guy yelling, etc.
    Carry On.

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    Regular Member ryan7068's Avatar
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    Notify????

    Is honking referred to in VA code as the proper meant to notify????? I've never been clear on this. Is there a cite?
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    ageed.

    Once I passed and the guy was on my bumper.. I would have called it in.. explained the situation on THEIR recorded call as well as my audio recorder that would have already been on to record the acceleration of the pass, the honk, the guy yelling, etc.
    Exactly. You should -never- underestimate a road rage situation, never exacerbate it, always pull off and let it pass, because they can get very, very bad, very quickly. What if the OP had mis-read a gesture on the part of the bald dude and shot him then found out he had no weapon?

    You should not let yourself get into a 'killbox' situation like this (pinned in a driveway). Your car is your method of escape and evasion and if you pull in and put on the parking brake and have not called 911 you are in an untenable situation with no witnesses, no backup, no where to go and rapidly vanishing options.

    I'll go so far as to say that IF the OP had not possessed a firearm he -might- have behaved more sensibly.
    Last edited by sawah; 06-05-2012 at 09:49 PM.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan7068 View Post
    Notify????

    Is honking referred to in VA code as the proper meant to notify????? I've never been clear on this. Is there a cite?
    I can not find anything on the books besides it stating that your vehicle must have a horn audible at 200ft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJEEPER View Post
    I can not find anything on the books besides it stating that your vehicle must have a horn audible at 200ft.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+46.2-842.1

    § 46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.

    It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or light signal, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.


    "Keep Right" laws by state: http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html

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    I think there should be a flagging process associated with a license plate number. You can be voted aggressive -1 or too slow +1 and it could be a net 0 sum system. When you reach either a +10 or -10 you are limited to certain hours you are allowed to be on the road for a period of time and then the count drops to 5.
    "Yes, I am carrying a loaded firearm. Why aren't you? "

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpg9999 View Post
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+46.2-842.1

    § 46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.

    It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or light signal, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.


    "Keep Right" laws by state: http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html
    It obviously wasn't a divided highway, by the original description.

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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    Exactly. You should -never- underestimate a road rage situation, never exacerbate it, always pull off and let it pass, because they can get very, very bad, very quickly. What if the OP had mis-read a gesture on the part of the bald dude and shot him then found out he had no weapon?

    You should not let yourself get into a 'killbox' situation like this (pinned in a driveway). Your car is your method of escape and evasion and if you pull in and put on the parking brake and have not called 911 you are in an untenable situation with no witnesses, no backup, no where to go and rapidly vanishing options.

    I'll go so far as to say that IF the OP had not possessed a firearm he -might- have behaved more sensibly.
    I hope you are not as big of a dumbass as your post reflects.....Your assumptions are wrong!! I was on a small country road with NO WHERE to pull over which is why i pulled in that driveway (which was my cousins house) he was inside and would have been a witness for me if need be. Had I not had a gun I would have done the same damn thing. You sounds like a liberal..are you?? Just because I had a gun does not mean i thought I was Rambo and would have shot the guy. My gun was unchambered and was simply laying there. Also once again I was in the virginia woods ( what we call the country) with limted to no cell signal. What should I have done screamed 911 out of my window?? Cause that is the only way I could have called the cops. Also sawah, stop depending on the police to always be there for you. I had my recorder on and again was in a county that may have a total of 7 deputies on the entire force. I dont mean to treat you like a jerk but this statement here-
    I'll go so far as to say that IF the OP had not possessed a firearm he -might- have behaved more sensibly.-

    Is a stupid comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    ageed.

    Once I passed and the guy was on my bumper.. I would have called it in.. explained the situation on THEIR recorded call as well as my audio recorder that would have already been on to record the acceleration of the pass, the honk, the guy yelling, etc.

    Ed,
    You NOVA guys are so so funny sometimes. Down here where I live you cant always depend on a cell signal. So what would you do if you had no cell signal???? I had none

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    Why would you stay behind someone driving 18 in a 40 for five miles, then when you were less than a mile from your destination (a driveway?) honk for him to pull over?
    I was on a single lane where there was NO way to pass him. I chose that driveway because my cousin was inside and would have been a witness for me....anymore strange questions?

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4guns View Post
    .... My gun was unchambered and was simply laying there. ....
    Carrying a paperweight!

    Which is also why some of us prefer to use holsters, so the thing does not slide around.

    Being tailgated is always a hard call. Va has laws against "aggressive driving" and both tailgating and slamming on the brakes/coasting1 are considered violations. My source tells me that § 46.2-818 is the law you violate by taking your foot off te accelerator and allowing your vehicle to "coast" to a near/dead stop.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+46.2-868.1

    § 46.2-868.1. Aggressive driving; penalties.
    A. A person is guilty of aggressive driving if (i) the person violates one or more of the following: § 46.2-802 (Drive on right side of highways), § 46.2-804 (Failure to observe lanes marked for traffic), § 46.2-816 (Following too closely), § 46.2-821 (Vehicles before entering certain highways shall stop or yield right-of-way), § 46.2-833.1 (Evasion of traffic control devices), § 46.2-838 (Passing when overtaking a vehicle), § 46.2-841 (When overtaking vehicle may pass on right), § 46.2-842 (Driver to give way to overtaking vehicle), § 46.2-842.1 (Driver to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highway), § 46.2-843 (Limitations on overtaking and passing), any provision of Article 8 (§ 46.2-870 et seq.) of Chapter 8 of Title 46.2 (Speed), or § 46.2-888 (Stopping on highways); and (ii) that person is a hazard to another person or commits an offense in clause (i) with the intent to harass, intimidate, injure or obstruct another person.
    B. Aggressive driving shall be punished as a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, aggressive driving with the intent to injure another person shall be punished as a Class 1 misdemeanor. In addition to the penalties described in this subsection, the court may require successful completion of an aggressive driving program.
    http://www.dmvnow.com/webdoc/safety/...sive/index.asp - DMV says just give the aggressive driver what he wants and hope they don't kill you.

    stay safe.

    1 Oops! Per the following it's only illegal to coast with the gears in neutral.
    § 46.2-811. Coasting prohibited. The driver of any motor vehicle traveling on a downgrade on any highway shall not coast with the gears of the vehicle in neutral.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  22. #22
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    It obviously wasn't a divided highway, by the original description.
    As the adhockery continues, we learn that it was a narrow two-lane with an exceptional 40 mph maximum speed limit. It may be that the gentleman was driving conservatively at half the posted speed limit. But the subsequent tailgating suggests retaliation - for something.

    What is the significance in Virginia of a speed limit that is a multiple of ten rather than the more common multiple of five miles per hour?

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    ageed.

    Once I passed and the guy was on my bumper.. I would have called it in.. explained the situation on THEIR recorded call as well as my audio recorder that would have already been on to record the acceleration of the pass, the honk, the guy yelling, etc.
    Called it in... ED???????

    Sawah.....Where do you get these IMPORTANT SAFETY TIPS you keep giving?


  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by love4guns View Post
    Ed,
    You NOVA guys are so so funny sometimes. Down here where I live you cant always depend on a cell signal. So what would you do if you had no cell signal???? I had none
    Well.. I was responding with what I WOULD have done. An I live in a cell saturated area. I would not have had my firearm unholstered.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Called it in... ED???????
    Yup!
    Carry On.

    Ed

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