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Thread: Attention all Ham Radio Ops

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Attention all Ham Radio Ops

    I have cut this from another state thread. If you are a Ham you should be intested in this. I will be turning in my long time membership to the ARRL.

    TBG
    N6ZUC

    Wisconsin ARES management does not have any authority to formulate a policy of carrying weapons while supporting ARES. ARES is a registered program of ARRL and, as the parent organization of ARES, it is the ARRL who has declared that weapons have no place in ARES – not only in Wisconsin but nationally. I have been in communication with ARRL HQ several times on this issue presenting the what-ifs and the answer is always the same – no weapons allowed. Period.

    From Chris Imlay, ARRL General Counsel:

    Greetings, Don. Let me be very, very clear about this. We are not going to talk about choice here, or "rights" or anything else on this issue. There is no place within ARES for weapons of any type. No one in connection with ARES is to carry a weapon on their person at any time they are participating in any ARES activity whatsoever. We are not going to discuss this or negotiate this with anyone at any time. If this is a problem for anyone, then as Dan says they are welcome to withdraw from the ARES program. We do not want anyone participating in ARES while possessing a weapon outside their home or vehicle and if we hear about it the person will be thanked for their services and terminated. This is an ARRL program and weapons are no part of it whatsoever. We can't have any liability on this issue. Please tell your field appointees this.

    73, Chris W3KD

    This policy has the support of all the top management within ARRL, Central Division leaders, Wisconsin Section Manager, and Wisconsin ARES senior leadership. In addition, there has been consultation with Wisconsin Emergency Management.

    Wisconsin ARES will adhere to this ARRL policy and we will discuss, at the April 28 Leadership conference, the impact it has on Wisconsin ARES and the adjustments that need to be made within Wisconsin ARES to continue as one of the best ARES organizations in the country.
    Last edited by The Big Guy; 06-05-2012 at 04:20 PM.
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    WoW, I guess they don't want my help either then. Oh well, I'll still carry.

    Thanks for the post.

    73's
    Jim
    KF7JKO
    Last edited by Rollbar; 06-05-2012 at 03:47 PM.

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    Regular Member wmodavis's Avatar
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    Another reason I do not support ARRL.
    Bill
    K7IRC/0

  4. #4
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmodavis View Post
    Another reason I do not support ARRL.
    Bill
    K7IRC/0
    Yep, never joined ARRL either. We have an ARES group and work different areas, if I am called I will carry, especially on S&R.

  5. #5
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    I just emailed the ARRL:

    TBG



    I have recently found the following.

    Greetings, Don. Let me be very, very clear about this. We are not going to talk about choice here, or "rights" or anything else on this issue. There is no place within ARES for weapons of any type. No one in connection with ARES is to carry a weapon on their person at any time they are participating in any ARES activity whatsoever. We are not going to discuss this or negotiate this with anyone at any time. If this is a problem for anyone, then as Dan says they are welcome to withdraw from the ARES program. We do not want anyone participating in ARES while possessing a weapon outside their home or vehicle and if we hear about it the person will be thanked for their services and terminated. This is an ARRL program and weapons are no part of it whatsoever. We can't have any liability on this issue. Please tell your field appointees this.

    73, Chris W3KD

    As this is the hard and fast policy of the ARRL, and as a patriot, I cant abide by this decision. Therefore I will not be renewing my membership in the ARRL.
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    thats why they will never know whos carrying if ARES members have CCW's

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    Wow, what a shame. As a recent HAM licensee, I was looking forward to participating in ARES. This really infuriates me.

    Why is it so hard for these people to understand that if they are concerned about liability, the best policy is NO policy. My comparison to Blue Pants still stands.

    I hate it when my hobbies are at odds with one another. And in this case, for them to be at odds with one another is just plain crazy. Many recent HAMs, myself included, are interested in HAM for preparedness reasons. This naturally dovetails with firearms possession. Duh.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike In Reno View Post
    thats why they will never know whos carrying if ARES members have CCW's

    That goes for almost anywhere IMHO.

    The kids and I just submitted our stuff today for the CCW.

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    That ARRL statement infuriates me. And I just wrote to express my displeasure and to tell them they should withdraw my name if they indeed refuse to reconsider and discuss.

  10. #10
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varminter22 View Post
    That ARRL statement infuriates me. And I just wrote to express my displeasure and to tell them they should withdraw my name if they indeed refuse to reconsider and discuss.
    Thanks Larry. I hope all hams who believe in liberty write the ARRL and let them know of their displeasure. Let's surprise them with how many Amateur Radio Operators also own and carry firearms.
    Contact them at hq@arrl.org and be sure to give them your membership number or if not a member your FCC Call sign.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    Thanks Larry. I hope all hams who believe in liberty write the ARRL and let them know of their displeasure. Let's surprise them with how many Amateur Radio Operators also own and carry firearms.
    Contact them at hq@arrl.org and be sure to give them your membership number or if not a member your FCC Call sign.

    TBG
    A~Men. +1

    I posted this link on Reno 4x4 - http://www.reno4x4.com/forum/showthr...991#post621991
    Last edited by Rollbar; 06-06-2012 at 02:13 AM.

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    There's plenty of time to set up Field Day sites which will be staffed by OCers, and call the media to announce it. It's unusual enough that you might get some coverage, promoting both ham radio and OC.

    Down in the Sharp End, put it in a park in the middle of town.

    Up in the north, put it on the lawn at the Capitol!

    You can even mention on the air that you're operating while armed, and offer an email QSL.

    If you do get media coverage, remember to forward copies to the ARRL! XD

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post

    You can even mention on the air that you're operating while armed, and offer an email QSL.

    If you do get media coverage, remember to forward copies to the ARRL! XD
    Very good point.

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    Regular Member KNCW's Avatar
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    I plan to OC at my clubs Field Day.

  15. #15
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNCW View Post
    I plan to OC at my clubs Field Day.
    That's great. Maybe you can use it as an opportunity to educate. Don't forget to write the ARRL and ask other Hammies you know to do likewise.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Regular Member KNCW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    I have cut this from another state thread. If you are a Ham you should be intested in this. I will be turning in my long time membership to the ARRL.

    TBG
    N6ZUC

    Wisconsin ARES management does not have any authority to formulate a policy of carrying weapons while supporting ARES. ARES is a registered program of ARRL and, as the parent organization of ARES, it is the ARRL who has declared that weapons have no place in ARES not only in Wisconsin but nationally. I have been in communication with ARRL HQ several times on this issue presenting the what-ifs and the answer is always the same no weapons allowed. Period.

    From Chris Imlay, ARRL General Counsel:

    Greetings, Don. Let me be very, very clear about this. We are not going to talk about choice here, or "rights" or anything else on this issue. There is no place within ARES for weapons of any type. No one in connection with ARES is to carry a weapon on their person at any time they are participating in any ARES activity whatsoever. We are not going to discuss this or negotiate this with anyone at any time. If this is a problem for anyone, then as Dan says they are welcome to withdraw from the ARES program. We do not want anyone participating in ARES while possessing a weapon outside their home or vehicle and if we hear about it the person will be thanked for their services and terminated. This is an ARRL program and weapons are no part of it whatsoever. We can't have any liability on this issue. Please tell your field appointees this.

    73, Chris W3KD

    This policy has the support of all the top management within ARRL, Central Division leaders, Wisconsin Section Manager, and Wisconsin ARES senior leadership. In addition, there has been consultation with Wisconsin Emergency Management.

    Wisconsin ARES will adhere to this ARRL policy and we will discuss, at the April 28 Leadership conference, the impact it has on Wisconsin ARES and the adjustments that need to be made within Wisconsin ARES to continue as one of the best ARES organizations in the country.
    May I copy this and send it to some of our local clubs?

  17. #17
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNCW View Post
    May I copy this and send it to some of our local clubs?
    It was on a public forum so go for it...

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    The true irony is that the ARRL was started by Hiram Percy Maxim, inventor of the suppressor and whose father invented the Maxim Machine Gun.

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNCW View Post
    May I copy this and send it to some of our local clubs?
    Start our own group, tell'em we pack and do S&R.

    I went through all the FEMA qualifications, might need a quick refresher though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    Start our own group, tell'em we pack and do S&R.

    I went through all the FEMA qualifications, might need a quick refresher though
    I've been doing disaster communications since before FEMA existed. I have never been a member of either ARES or RACES. I also refuse to let the Red Cross do their credit check, etc.

    All the same, I have never had anyone turn down my services when I have rolled into an event.

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    A~Men. +1

    I posted this link on Reno 4x4 - http://www.reno4x4.com/forum/showthr...991#post621991
    copied from reno4x4.com posted by leifnv

    Well, Field Day is not an ARES event, so that was a safe bet.

    Question is, would you have the balls to OC if they was operating from REOC parking lot?
    I don't have access to the reno4x4 board, but you can tell him I not only had the balls to carry in the parking lot of the REOC, I also carried in the REOC during a SNARS/ARES meeting a while back and no one said a word, my wife was also carrying too!

    and I also see there are some really stupid, brainwashed or uneducated people on that board concerning rights
    Last edited by john-in-reno; 06-08-2012 at 07:07 PM.
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

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  22. #22
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john-in-reno View Post
    copied from reno4x4.com posted by leifnv



    I don't have access to the reno4x4 board, but you can tell him I not only had the balls to carry in the parking lot of the REOC, I also carried in the REOC during a SNARS/ARES meeting a while back and no one said a word, my wife was also carrying too!

    and I also see there are some really stupid, brainwashed or uneducated people on that board concerning rights

    +1

    You have access-Just register

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    Regular Member john-in-reno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    +1

    You have access-Just register
    i already have about 30 boards i read, I don't need another loggin
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

    MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john-in-reno View Post
    i already have about 30 boards i read, I don't need another loggin
    +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000 I hear ya

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    I just received the following reply:
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Chris Imlay
    To: varminter22
    Cc: k1zz@arrl.org ; nn1n@arrl.org ; N1ND@arrl.org ; n3kn@arrl.org ; w6rgg@arrl.org
    Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 7:17 AM
    Subject: ARRL ARES Firearms Policy

    Re: Carrying of Weapons during ARES Participation

    Your e-mail inquiry of June 5, 2012 to ARRL Headquarters has been referred to me. I am the General Counsel for ARRL and have served in that capacity for more than thirty years. It is my obligation, among other things, to protect ARRL and its programs from exposure to liability.

    You ask whether it is true that I have advised the Wisconsin Section Manager that weapons are not permitted to be carried by ARES volunteers while participating in any ARES activity. You quote some unknown source extensively which discusses this point, and ask if all of that is true. You say that if it is true, that you will not renew your membership and that you will urge others to resign their ARRL memberships as well. While that is entirely your decision to make, I would like to explain the circumstances of this situation so that you wont operate under any misapprehensions. I cannot speak for the truth of the article that you quote from, and I dont know the source. The quote in that article attributed to me, however, is substantially accurate. You should appreciate certain facts:

    ARRLs Board of Directors has not at any time that I am aware of made or adopted any policy with respect to volunteers carrying firearms while involved in an ARES activity or while involved in any other ARRL-sponsored program or activity. Only ARRLs Board of Directors is entitled to make policy for the organization. I do not have that authority whatsoever. You, as an ARRL member, participate in the policymaking process by your communications with your ARRL Division Director who will represent your interests at meetings of the Board of Directors. In your case, your Division Director is Mr. Bob Vallio, W6RGG. I urge you to contact him about this and make your feelings about the carrying of firearms and weapons during ARES deployments known.

    ARRL staff and I were asked by the Wisconsin Section Manager (repeatedly) how to respond to a question that he had been asked by ARES participants in Wisconsin as to whether or not they could bring weapons with them to an ARES deployment. Stating my opinion (and absent any statement of policy from the ARRL Board of Directors to the contrary), I advised the Section Manager (and ARRL Regulatory Information Department staff) that because of the substantial risk to ARRL of exposure to liability as a matter of law that would inevitably result if ARRL were to affirmatively permit weapons to be carried by ARES volunteers during an ARES activity, and if someone were to be injured or killed by the weapon, this could not be sanctioned. I realize from your e-mail that you dont agree that ARRL would be exposed to liability but about that we must disagree. Just because a person volunteers his or her time to ARES does not exempt that volunteer from liability, nor does it exempt ARRL, the sponsor of the ARES program, from liability for the actions of its own volunteers during the course of the activity sponsored by ARRL. I will assure you that, should an ARES volunteer carrying a weapon injure someone while involved in an ARES activity, the volunteer and ARRL would be sued and potentially exposed to very substantial liability. It is my job to make sure that such risks are not incurred by the organization and I intend to continue to do that job to the best of my ability.

    There are, however, quite a few other reasons why the policy that you would like to have ARRL adopt cant in my opinion be accommodated. First, ARES is a program that is limited to the provision of radio communications in emergencies. ARES works with served agencies such as the Red Cross and the Salvation Army, and Federal and local first responder agencies which themselves do not permit carrying weapons by volunteers. If ARRL was to have a policy permitting the carrying of firearms during ARES deployments, ARES could not provide services to served agencies with which we have memoranda of understanding agreeing to provide such services. It would defeat the entire purpose of the program.

    There is no reason whatsoever why a person who wishes to participate in ARES activities should need to carry a weapon of any sort during an ARES activation. If a person believes that self-protection is necessary during an ARES deployment to the extent that carrying a firearm is necessary, then that person should simply not volunteer in ARES. It is not the right program for those persons. Again, the purpose of ARES is to have hams help people in emergencies and disasters with radiocommunications.

    I am well-aware, as you say that there are many hams who are outdoorsmen, shooters, hunters, or lawful concealed firearms carriers. I am one of them. However, there is no connection between those activities and the need to carry weapons to an ARES deployment. There are many places where firearms can be carried by individuals, but there are many places where they cannot be carried as well. ARRL certainly has no intention of infringing anyones rights, but the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution does not limit a private sector entitys entitlement to make whatever limitations it needs to make with respect to the carrying of weapons in particular circumstances in activities involving the private sector entitys own programs. There is simply no doubt about this, so the discussion of the Second Amendment to the Constitution has no place in this discussion. ARRL members can, as far as ARRL is concerned, carry weapons as they see fit and as the law permits, except while acting as a volunteer during ARES activities or in other ARRL-sponsored activities. It is not unreasonable for volunteers to be asked to leave their weapons in their vehicles or their homes while involved in ARES. They have the option to choose not to participate in ARES if they dont feel comfortable without carrying a weapon to the event.

    I would urge you, if you remain dissatisfied with the advice that I furnished to an elected ARRL field organization member, or with the explanation in this e-mail, to present your concerns to your ARRL Division Director. If you resign your ARRL membership in protest of the actions of an independent contractor to ARRL such as myself, then you lose the ability to influence ARRL policy, which seems to me to be the exact opposite of the goal that you want to achieve. Unless the ARRL Board of Directors decides otherwise, there will be no change in my advice given to the ARRL staff and the elected field organization volunteers, because it is based on protecting the organization that I care very much about. I hope that you will agree that ARRL is a valuable resource that is worth protecting; I hope that this addresses your concerns, and I hope that you will remain a member of ARRL.

    73, Chris W3KD
    Christopher D. Imlay
    Booth, Freret, Imlay & Tepper. P.C.
    14356 Cape May Road
    Silver Spring, Maryland 20904-6011
    (301) 384-5525 telephone
    (301) 384-6384 facsimile
    W3KD@ARRL.ORG

    While he might make some good points, I still have questions/concerns.

    And I MOST certainly disagree with his statement:
    There is no reason whatsoever why a person who wishes to participate in ARES activities should need to carry a weapon of any sort during an ARES activation.


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