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First time involved in confrontation while OC'ing... horn blowing at intersection

brlong23

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
The wife and I decided to take our cars to get washed the other day and so I'm following her as we approach the turn into the car wash. There is a median where you have to cross 2 lanes of traffic and my wife had a car in front of her who sat for over 30 seconds with nobody coming in the opposite lanes. My wife honked her horn so the person would hurry up. The vehicle in front of her was occupied by a single white female (approx. 20 years old) who made a u-turn and proceded to flip my wife off in the process. My wife returned the one finger salute and we proceeded to make the left turn into the car wash. That was the end of it for us, until...we're the only ones waiting to enter the car wash as someone was already in it. While we're waiting, I noticed the same vehicle that engaged in the finger flipping had since circled back around behind our vehicles and parked off to the right of my wife's car out of her sight line, approximately 30 yards away. As I'm watching the vehicle behind my wife, I see the door open, the young woman exit the vehicle and begin to walk quickly towards my wife's car while trying to stay in her blind spot. The woman was obviously unaware that I was with her as she paid no attention to me. At this point, I'm fully aware of what's occuring and so I open my door and step out and around the back of my vehicle, in between her and my wife. At this point, my wife see's what's about to happen and also exits her vehicle. As the young woman begins to scream at my wife, I interupt her her loudly and with a lot of force in my voice (My Marine voice :lol:) that she needs to return to her vehicle immediately. She proceeds to attempt to explain why she was sitting at the intersection (she claims she is learning to drive a stick) to which I reply I don't care what she has to say and re-emphasize her need to return to her car. She then notices my Glock 27 attached to my hip and says, "Or what, you're going to shoot me?" I inform her that I don't know her and that the way she deliberately back tracked on my wife and attempted to approach her blind spot, she's lucky I hadn't already drawn on her and if she continued to act in a threatening manner, I was going to call the police. At this point, I believe she realized she had made a regretable mistake and returned to her car without saying another word.

A few points of interest...the young woman was approximately 5'5" 105 lbs and I'm 6'2" 205 lbs so I wasn't exactly threatend by her. However, not knowing her intentions, I was happy that I was armed. Also of note, I probably saved her an ass kicking she couldn't have imagined, as my wife is an active duty Marine who likely would have stopped beating her once she was unconcious or someone pulled my wife off of her...lol

Anyways, just thought I'd share my first experience where tempers flaired and my OC'ing came into play. Thoughts or comments are appreciated!
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Before everyone else jumps on the bandwagon... yeah probably never a good idea to return the one-fingered salute. That aside...


Did this happen in Fredericksburg? Just curious, considering your profile entry. There was a shooting just last week of a knife-wielding assailant who sneaked up on a man in a car by approaching through the blind spot. The assailant was shot to death by the man in the car, and as yet, I don't believe there are any plans to file charges. (Brings me back to the first point above... always something to keep in mind.)

TFred
 

brlong23

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Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
Before everyone else jumps on the bandwagon... yeah probably never a good idea to return the one-fingered salute. That aside...


Did this happen in Fredericksburg? Just curious, considering your profile entry. There was a shooting just last week of a knife-wielding assailant who sneaked up on a man in a car by approaching through the blind spot. The assailant was shot to death by the man in the car, and as yet, I don't believe there are any plans to file charges. (Brings me back to the first point above... always something to keep in mind.)

TFred

Yes, this was in Fredericksburg over at Central Park. The car wash next to McDonalds.

I read the story you're refering to as well. The sad story but I'm glad it worked out the way it did.
 

peter nap

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I have to disagree with TFred. Returning he salute is obligatory....but, saying you should have already drawn or any mention of your gun even though she did, is bad.

Other than that...well done and give the wife a hug for me!
 

TFred

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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
I have to disagree with TFred. Returning he salute is obligatory....but, saying you should have already drawn or any mention of your gun even though she did, is bad.

Other than that...well done and give the wife a hug for me!
Just thinking of being able to maintain a claim of innocence in the entire situation, that's all.

TFred
 

peter nap

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Just thinking of being able to maintain a claim of innocence in the entire situation, that's all.

TFred

I know and it's the voice of reason. Ignoring it would eat away at me for months though.
 

brlong23

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
I have to disagree with TFred. Returning he salute is obligatory....but, saying you should have already drawn or any mention of your gun even though she did, is bad.

Other than that...well done and give the wife a hug for me!

I can't claim innocence with regards to the finger...I'm always quick to return it if given...lol

In retrospect, I agree with the mentioning of drawing. Something to keep in mind for the future...thanks for pointing that out.

And I'll pass it along to the wife...she'll appreciate it :)
 

ryan7068

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Apr 8, 2011
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Location
Chesapeake, VA
I agree with the obligitory return of the bird :D I as a general rule don't referrence my glock 23 unless the conversation is civil. I say ", Let the gun do the talking!":eek: (only if necessary of course) But good on yah mate. I'd say all the little things only become wrong in the eyes of the law should the situation escalate and the weapon be fired. All those small points could point toward a conviction if you're unlucky enough. But if it comes down to it, I choose my life over theirs.
 

1911 Enthusiast

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Feb 5, 2012
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77
Location
Heart of Appalachia
So the entire incident was precipitated by a horn blowing at a vehicle which conceivably could have been stalled even though it had no flashers on? If it sat there for "30 seconds" with no oncoming traffic, I'd have made the assumption there was a problem with the vehicle. In which case, a horn blowing wouldn't have been warranted and the entire situation wouldn't have taken place to start with.

Horn blowing is a pet peeve of mine anyway, especially someone who does it within a second or two of a light change. We're a bit more laid back in my area of SW VA and more likely to give a driver the benefit of doubt.
 

sawah

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Jan 22, 2011
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Virginia
Needless escalation of a situation. It rapidly devolved into a potentially bad scene and for what? Nothing. Glad everyone went home OK.
 

Blk97F150

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Dec 21, 2010
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Virginia
So the entire incident was precipitated by a horn blowing at a vehicle which conceivably could have been stalled even though it had no flashers on? If it sat there for "30 seconds" with no oncoming traffic, I'd have made the assumption there was a problem with the vehicle. In which case, a horn blowing wouldn't have been warranted and the entire situation wouldn't have taken place to start with.

Horn blowing is a pet peeve of mine anyway, especially someone who does it within a second or two of a light change. We're a bit more laid back in my area of SW VA and more likely to give a driver the benefit of doubt.

For the most part, I agree.... but... knowing the area this happened.... its not uncommon for people to get distracted at an intersection, talking on the phone, reading emails, texting, talking to a passenger, etc... so they don't notice that they had plenty of opportunity to go through the intersection. Usually a little 'tap' on the horn takes care of it in a somewhat civil manner and a full on, long duration 'get the hell out of my way' type horn blowing isn't necesary.
 

skidmark

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Blowing the horn may or may not indicate a lack of manners or impatience. Pulling a U-turn to flip off the horn blower may or may not indicate a lack of manners. Returning the sentiment may or may not indicate a lack of manners.

Pulling into the car wash after the OP and his wife may or may not indicate nefarious intent. Getting out of the car and approaching the OP's wife from an angle likely to be a blind spot may or may not indicate nefarious intent.

Confronting the female and warning her to stop/retreat is good tactics. Responding to her questioning of who the OP thought he was to tell her what to do ("I inform her that I don't know her and that the way she deliberately back tracked on my wife and attempted to approach her blind spot....") was good tactics.

Telling her "She's lucky I hadn't already drawn on her...." is, if I may be permitted to temper my comment, sheer stupidity.

Telling her that "if she continued to act in a threatening manner, I was going to call the police" was good tactics.

Protecting the wife/husband/kids/pet tarantula is a wonderful thing. But to make a threat - even veiled - of using a firearm? Not so much.

If there was a need to draw and shoot, you should have drawn and shot. If there was no need to draw and shoot, any reference to the firearm on your part is just not good tactics. She asked if you were going to shoot her if she did not back away? Respond that doing so was the last thing you wanterd to be forced by her actions to do. (Or words to that effect.) Put the responsibility back on her to decide how the exchange will end.

And for goodness sake, please tell us you had an audio recorder running through all of this!

stay safe.
 

ryan7068

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Chesapeake, VA
I'm sure skidmark, that you have a very upclose look as to how an audio recording would have helped. If you have any type of smart phone, there are pretty good apps out to record when you carry. They don't draw much power and don't always have to be on IMO. Im able to record with 3 quick taps of buttons. It is definitely something I see being helpful.
 

ianto94

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Don't return the salute

I have to disagree with TFred. Returning he salute is obligatory....but, saying you should have already drawn or any mention of your gun even though she did, is bad.

Other than that...well done and give the wife a hug for me!

I will disagree with Peter. As much as you want to, returning the gesture is a bad idea. If the confrontation escalates to gun fire, the finger will be considered as an escalating factor, police, prosecutors and jurors will consider. You want to maintain the mantle of innocence that you did everything you could to avoid using the gun. That means walking away from a confrontation, if at all possible.
 

peter nap

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+1

Actually except for that one comment, he did pretty well. It was a refreshing post especially in light of the extremes I've been seeing lately. Some would have shot her and some would have dialed 911. He just handled it and went on about his business.

I have trouble understanding why that's so complicated for some people.
 

sawah

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I'm sure skidmark, that you have a very upclose look as to how an audio recording would have helped. If you have any type of smart phone, there are pretty good apps out to record when you carry. They don't draw much power and don't always have to be on IMO. Im able to record with 3 quick taps of buttons. It is definitely something I see being helpful.

IME, if you are not already running the recorder, it's easy to forget to stop what you're doing, find the thing and turn it on. So, really, it's not 3 quick taps, it's find the phone, orient the device, find the buttons, tap them and, oh, remember under high stress to do so. I suggest running a stand-alone long playing audio recorder any time you're out and armed (or not armed).
 

ryan7068

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I may be wrong........but wasn't it in skidmarks case that the judge said something along the lines of people that carry guns are allowed to have arguments too?

While some may call me stupid over it.....and this may not have happened this way in this case. If someone mis-interperets my actions as rudeness and then proceeds to be an a-hole, I will be one right back. (carrying or not)

I have restraint from escalating to violence. It really isn't my fault that someone else can't keep their hands to themeself. If they are moronic enough to attack me I would retreat or defend at much as possible without a firearm.
 
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peter nap

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I will disagree with Peter. As much as you want to, returning the gesture is a bad idea. If the confrontation escalates to gun fire, the finger will be considered as an escalating factor, police, prosecutors and jurors will consider. You want to maintain the mantle of innocence that you did everything you could to avoid using the gun. That means walking away from a confrontation, if at all possible.

It wasn't even close to involving gunfire, he just had it on and didn't leave it in the car when he got out.

In this case it was a woman so the wife could handle the physical end but in most cases it's a man and a Azz whuppin would be in order. There's a lot of territory to be explored between Calling the cops and shooting someone.
 
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