Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 66

Thread: Senate Bill 761: Lower pistol length definition to 26 inches

  1. #1
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Regional / Augusta, Michigan
    Posts
    144

    Senate Bill 761: Lower pistol length definition to 26 inches

    Senate Bill 761: Lower pistol length definition to 26 inches
    Passed 109 to 0 in the House on May 31, 2012, to change the law defining any firearm less than 30 inches in length as a “pistol,” making this 26 inches. Some rifles with folding stocks are less than 30 inches, and so under Michigan law are technically subject to the same purchase and other restrictions as pistols.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-SEBH-0761.pdf
    Last edited by Master Control; 06-09-2012 at 02:33 AM.
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    I like the idea of Michigan Pistols. This law would do more to restrict rights, than to expand them.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houghton County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    808
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I like the idea of Michigan Pistols. This law would do more to restrict rights, than to expand them.
    It takes a class of firearm that requires government permission to own, transfer, or borrow (thus NOT a right), and gets rid of that requirement, which turns that class of firearms into a right.
    Rand Paul 2016

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Thumbs down More Stack on BS gun law.

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I like the idea of Michigan Pistols. This law would do more to restrict rights, than to expand them.
    Ladies & Gentlemen I do believe this is another under the radar attack on our 2A rights. Seem like our buddies in Lansing have an agenda with the sudden batch of bills that are quietly being brought forward before most of us start leaving for summer breaks/vacations & we are on the $hit end of the stick.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Control View Post
    Senate Bill 761: Lower pistol length definition to 26 inches
    Passed 109 to 0 in the House on May 31, 2012, to change the law defining any firearm less than 30 inches in length as a “pistol,” making this 26 inches. Some rifles with folding stocks are less than 30 inches, and so under Michigan law are technically subject to the same purchase and other restrictions as pistols.

    See bold it speaks volumes.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Here we go again. Wasn't there already a thread with over 100 posts debating this? Can someone go dig up the link to alleviate the need to re-churn the issue?

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    See bold it speaks volumes.
    Again see bold. 109 to 0? And you say we have a pro gun legislature?

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

  8. #8
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    <<[(2) A PERSON WHO, BEFORE JANUARY 1, 2013, LAWFULLY OWNED A FIREARM GREATER THAN 26 INCHES IN LENGTH AND CARRIED THAT FIREARM AS A PISTOL, MAY CONTINUE TO LAWFULLY OWN, POSSESS, CARRY, OR TRANSPORT THAT FIREARM AS A PISTOL AFTER JANUARY 1, 2013 IF HE OR SHE IS IN POSSESSION OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    (A) A COPY OF THE LICENSE OR RECORD ISSUED UNDER SECTION 2 OR 2A FOR THAT FIREARM, IF THE FIREARM WAS REGISTERED AS A PISTOL UNDER SECTIONS 2 OR 2A.
    (B) FOR A FIREARM PURCHASED OUT OF STATE, A SALES RECEIPT OR PROOF OF PURCHASE THAT INDICATES THE MAKE, MODEL, AND SERIAL NUMBER OF A FIREARM, AND A PURCHASE DATE PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 2013.
    (C) AN AFFIDAVIT ISSUED BY A STATE OR LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS OR ANY OTHER STATE STATING THAT THE FIREARM WAS LAWFULLY OWNED AND CARRIED AS A PISTOL BEFORE JANUARY 1, 2013.]>>

    A- why the hell should I have to carry a long ago tossed green card or RI060?

    B-Why would that be covered under a grandfather clause?

    C- Which police agency in another state, never mind this one, would issue such a piece of writing? MIDAP's exist only in Michigan. For a cop in another state to issue such a statement, would mean that that cop would be lying.

    I am so sick of cops asking me for my walking papers. Legislating that I'm required to carry more of them really pisses me off. And what's worse is that the reasoning is thoroughly erroneous.

    Federal law and state law should match. But we also shouldn't be prohibited from carrying long guns in vehicles without casing or disassembling them.

    Am I missing something, or do I need to start calling and bitching?
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Houghton County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    808
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Again see bold. 109 to 0? And you say we have a pro gun legislature?

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    I would say making it so a class of firearm that currently needs to be registered, and eliminating the need to register them is a pro gun vote, not an anti-gun vote.
    Rand Paul 2016

  10. #10
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    I would say making it so a class of firearm that currently needs to be registered, and eliminating the need to register them is a pro gun vote, not an anti-gun vote.
    And I think if this type of legislation is going to be the hallmark of Michigan Republicans' "pro-2A" legislative agenda, I become increasingly sad about the future prospects of being able to truly exercise the 2nd Amendment in this state. Oh, how very sad...
    Last edited by DrTodd; 06-07-2012 at 08:36 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  11. #11
    Regular Member michaelm_ski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Clare , MICHIGAN
    Posts
    99

    Lowering Gun Size ?

    I don't know about the rest BUT lowering the size to declare the gun a pistol seems to actually give us more choices to carry ? I like it because it also gives us a lot more rifles that can be carried with shorter barrels such as our AR platforms . I for one am grateful to the bill as it is a lot easier to purchase a rifle than a handgun at times .

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    More crumbs from the master's table...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756
    If the current legislature honestly and sincerely wanted to actually do something substantive....... adding penalties, penalties for the individuals involved (not just fines that the taxpayer ends up paying), for not being in compliance with MCL 123.1102 would be something they could brag about come election time. And it would be something gun owners/carriers would appreciate come election time.

    Imagine... government officials facing arrest/personal fines/jail time for disobeying the law....

    What a freaking concept!

    And the legislators involved... sponsors, supporters, and those who vote for it... would be able to campaign on their record of making government officials just as accountable to the law as.......... well........ all the voters they hope will vote them back into office.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    If the current legislature honestly and sincerely wanted to actually do something substantive....... adding penalties, penalties for the individuals involved (not just fines that the taxpayer ends up paying), for not being in compliance with MCL 123.1102 would be something they could brag about come election time. And it would be something gun owners/carriers would appreciate come election time.

    Imagine... government officials facing arrest/personal fines/jail time for disobeying the law....

    What a freaking concept!

    And the legislators involved... sponsors, supporters, and those who vote for it... would be able to campaign on their record of making government officials just as accountable to the law as.......... well........ all the voters they hope will vote them back into office.
    This is a fantastic idea. That being said do not hold your breath waiting for our current crop of numbskulls to even toy with the idea, even briefly. We need to organize and start getting our people elected on the local and state levels similar to what the tea party folks did. The only way to get rid of the rotten apple we have now in my honest opinion, is to have people on the inside tearing away at it.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

  15. #15
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    If the current legislature honestly and sincerely wanted to actually do something substantive....... adding penalties, penalties for the individuals involved (not just fines that the taxpayer ends up paying), for not being in compliance with MCL 123.1102 would be something they could brag about come election time. And it would be something gun owners/carriers would appreciate come election time.

    Imagine... government officials facing arrest/personal fines/jail time for disobeying the law....

    What a freaking concept!

    And the legislators involved... sponsors, supporters, and those who vote for it... would be able to campaign on their record of making government officials just as accountable to the law as.......... well........ all the voters they hope will vote them back into office.
    I have some nice oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm_ski View Post
    I don't know about the rest BUT lowering the size to declare the gun a pistol seems to actually give us more choices to carry ? I like it because it also gives us a lot more rifles that can be carried with shorter barrels such as our AR platforms . I for one am grateful to the bill as it is a lot easier to purchase a rifle than a handgun at times .
    How does lowering the size to 26" increase the choices of guns that can be legally carried? It actually decreases the choices. As far as ease of buying ,just buy a non folding rifle being you wont be able to treat as a pistol anyways if this passes.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut If the current legislature honestly and sincerely wanted to actually do something substantive....... adding penalties, penalties for the individuals involved (not just fines that the taxpayer ends up paying), for not being in compliance with MCL 123.1102 would be something they could brag about come election time. And it would be something gun owners/carriers would appreciate come election time.

    Imagine... government officials facing arrest/personal fines/jail time for disobeying the law....

    What a freaking concept!

    And the legislators involved... sponsors, supporters, and those who vote for it... would be able to campaign on their record of making government officials just as accountable to the law as.......... well........ all the voters they hope will vote them back into office.


    I have some nice oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you...
    What I'm trying to say is that right now strengthening MCL 123.1102 wouldn't be about guns but would be about holding government officials personally accountable for any official actions... or inactions... that break the law.

    At this time in History when government is running wild it would be the shock value of a legislator actually requiring government officials to obey the law like ordinary people must that would garner many votes come election time.

    And any legislator that voted against the concept of government officials obeying the law would also see an effect on votes come election time.

    The wonderful internet can get the word out on who sponsored, supported, and voted for the rule of law............. and who voted against it too.

    And strengthening MCL 123.1102 could easily stop a lot of the Richard measuring going on between minor officials/government departments/judges who think they own a fiefdom.

    And that... to my mind... is much more important that farting around measuring barrel lengths.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 06-08-2012 at 01:27 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    I agree. My reference was that it is a "pipe dream"...

    Logical thought is something that is lacking in Lansing.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  19. #19
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    And I think if this type of legislation is going to be the hallmark of Michigan Republicans' "pro-2A" legislative agenda, I become increasingly sad about the future prospects of being able to truly exercise the 2nd Amendment in this state. Oh, how very sad...
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelm_ski View Post
    I don't know about the rest BUT lowering the size to declare the gun a pistol seems to actually give us more choices to carry ? I like it because it also gives us a lot more rifles that can be carried with shorter barrels such as our AR platforms . I for one am grateful to the bill as it is a lot easier to purchase a rifle than a handgun at times .
    SBR's, and SBS's Are illegal in this state. So the barrel length of 16 inches for rifles and 18 inches for shotguns will still stay in effect. This is a terribly stupid way to show "support" for gun owners. 109 to 0 well done, at doing nothing positive at all. It limits the ability to have a "long gun" at the ready if needed.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Everyone here should send their rep an email explaining that if we as voting gun owners don't get something significant passed into law by the end of the term, ie. permitless transport, PFZs, Preemption, then you will be voting for whoever runs against them.

    I have, the response was that she "was very disappointed". Well, I'm very disappointed!!!, And I vote.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Regional / Augusta, Michigan
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Here we go again. Wasn't there already a thread with over 100 posts debating this? Can someone go dig up the link to alleviate the need to re-churn the issue?
    I posted it because of the date it passed, sorry if it has been been discussed over 100 times, I didn't notice it,,,,,
    (Senate Bill 761: Lower pistol length definition to 26 inches
    Passed 109 to 0 in the House on May 31, 2012)
    Last edited by Master Control; 06-09-2012 at 12:59 AM.
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

  22. #22
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SE Regional / Augusta, Michigan
    Posts
    144

    Post Senate Bill 761

    Last edited by Master Control; 06-09-2012 at 01:04 AM.
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

  23. #23
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    I was thinking about it, and I remembered that most states, per federal law, allow rifles with stocks that fold to less than 26" but fold out to more than 26". Michigan doesn't, and I don't believe this will change that.

    However, I do believe that if needed we can design quick detach stocks for legit federal law pistols which have barrels of at least 16". A lanyard and a carefully designed detent ball system that slides in and locks on shouldn't be hard at all to fabricate in a garage with a basic set of tools. As needed, barrel length can be upped with permanently attached flash or sound suppressors.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wayne County, MI.
    Posts
    271
    Quote Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
    I would say making it so a class of firearm that currently needs to be registered, and eliminating the need to register them is a pro gun vote, not an anti-gun vote.
    How is it EXACTLY that if any person moves to MI after Jan 2 2013 they can no longer carry a "class of firearm" a pro gun vote?

    There is a new drug that is going around (refered to as bath salts) causing people to feel no pain, so a hand gun might not be enough to stop a threat, with your thinking a person that moves to MI on Jan 2 2013 is now SOL if they are to need a bigger gun outside the house. Those of us already here will be subject to paper checks now where as we were not before.
    Thank you!

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Wayne County, MI.
    Posts
    271
    Sarah Brady thinks the same way those who are for this bill, make it so a gun is less likely to be used and you have a victory.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •