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Thread: New to Virginia and USA

  1. #1
    Louisgray
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    New to Virginia and USA

    Hey, I have got the possibility of moving to Virginia soon.
    Me being from the other side of the pond (England) we barely get to shoot guns at all never mind
    actually owning one . So could you try and help me clear some things up. Much appreciated

    -Can a non citizen but legal resident own a gun
    -Does the constitution apply to non-citizen/legal residents
    -Can non-citizen/legal residents open carry
    -And lastly what kind of weapons are allowed to be open carried

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisgray View Post
    Hey, I have got the possibility of moving to Virginia soon.
    Me being from the other side of the pond (England) we barely get to shoot guns at all never mind
    actually owning one . So could you try and help me clear some things up. Much appreciated

    -Can a non citizen but legal resident own a gun
    -Does the constitution apply to non-citizen/legal residents
    -Can non-citizen/legal residents open carry
    -And lastly what kind of weapons are allowed to be open carried
    Welcome to OCDO and hopefully Virginia - very different world here I think.

    Short simple answer to questions #1 & #3 is "YES".
    Code of Virginia Section 18.2-308,

    #2 - Yes, but from a different POV. The Constitution doesn't tell one what they can do. It limits what the government can do. Fine line distinction perhaps, but a most important difference.

    #4 - While any personal defense tool that is not restricted by place or design may be OCd (open carried), OCDO by design/intent is limited to the open carry of properly holstered handguns, promoting and defending that right as we go about our normal every day lives.

    We prefer to not use the term "weapon" as that implies aggression, whereas we are about the ability to defend. Normally we say gun, handgun, revolver, or pistol.

    If you try to find a VA statute permitting OC, you won't. It is the very absence of a law that makes it illegal that leaves the choice up to you. Is this a great state or what!

    Keep in touch. There are other laws that apply, but it is not terribly complicated. Look forward to the chance to meet you and maybe take that first OC walk with you.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-07-2012 at 08:12 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisgray View Post
    Hey, I have got the possibility of moving to Virginia soon.
    Me being from the other side of the pond (England) we barely get to shoot guns at all never mind
    actually owning one . So could you try and help me clear some things up. Much appreciated

    -Can a non citizen but legal resident own a gun
    -Does the constitution apply to non-citizen/legal residents
    -Can non-citizen/legal residents open carry
    -And lastly what kind of weapons are allowed to be open carried
    First, welcome to OCDO. Hope to be able to say "Welcome to the USA and to Virginia" as well.

    Grapeshot gave you the basics of the answer to your first question.

    He screwed up on #2 - the short answer is that the Constitution does apply to non-citizens. There are a lot of technicalities involved in why some parts of the Constitution might apply to legal non-residents but not to all non-citizens, or why certain parts of the Constitution do not apply to anybody who is not a citizen regardless of their legal presence status. There are many blogs devoted to understanding the constitution and to how it does/does not apply to "furriners".

    #3 - yes - generally. Depends specifically on what state you are in. And what you want to OC.

    #4 - generally handguns, but there are limitations on threaded barrels, magazines with a capacity of more than 20 rounds in certain localities, and a few other technicalities. Many of them come from a requirement to have a CHP even while OCing. And yes, legal non-residents can obtain a resident CHP -- immigration status vs. where you hang your hat terminology is fun, no?

    We can probably help you better by answering questions that are a bit more specific.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Scouser is from Jolly Old England and has turned out pretty well

    Hopefully he'll see this thread and jump in. He's already been through the transition.

    I have friends in England who are gun collectors. What they have to go through to get an antique matchlock is purely amazing. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised and understand why SOME OF US, cherish our right to own and carry guns without permits.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    English by birth, he fully embraced the 2A and RKBA

    With much fondness and respect, I remember TrueBrit who passed away in 2008.

    A family member said of him:
    I would like the community here at open carry to know a little more about Truebrit.He was my stepfather of 10 wonderful years. He was a perfect husband to my mother, (truebrits wife) and all I could ask for in a father or stepfather.Truebrit knew how important our rights are because of the lack of these rights in his place of birth, England, and many other countries.He was a caring,kind and compassionate man who put his family before himself.He taught me so much in those 10 years, I could go on for days. I know he spent a lot of time on this site,and he enjoyed every moment here thanks to all of you. I will never forget him, and the pain of his loss has been overwhelming. But he is in the kingdom of God now, no pain, no death, no sorrow. Godspeed TRUEBRIT, I love you! Your stepson, Bobby

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...273#post692273
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 06-08-2012 at 11:04 AM. Reason: formating
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Louisgray View Post
    Hey, I have got the possibility of moving to Virginia soon.
    Me being from the other side of the pond (England) we barely get to shoot guns at all never mind
    actually owning one . So could you try and help me clear some things up. Much appreciated

    -Can a non citizen but legal resident own a gun
    -Does the constitution apply to non-citizen/legal residents
    -Can non-citizen/legal residents open carry
    -And lastly what kind of weapons are allowed to be open carried

    I could not imagine living in a society where you can not own a gun. Welcome to true freedom

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Thanks Grape!

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    Welcome to America! Good luck with your endeavors and with your pursuit of the freedoms offered you under the Second Amendment.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Welcome to America. I have lived in quite a few states here and think Virginia is the best. Understand what our founding fathers felt about our rights.
    Amendments 1 through 8 are redundant. They belivied that everyone had these rights before the constitution and will have them well after the constitution. That is why they are refered to as natural or human rights.

    http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgov..._of_rights.htm

    This is a great place to start.

    Amendment 9 is my favorite. Basically it says that there are other rights we have that are not listed in the constitution. WE ALL have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happieness. If killing makes you happy I guess your SOL.

    Being new to OC myself I can say without doubt that it can be overwhelming to try to learn / relearn about how law works espically at a local level. All in all I love this country I love this state and I love my gun! WELCOME

  10. #10
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Let us know where in Virginia you are planning on settling. While Virginia is a great state to OC in some nearby areas like Washington DC and Maryland are bad places. If your job takes you around those places extra planning/care is needed to make sure you don't wind up in a bad place. :-(

    Griff77 had a few business associates from England visit last year and we took them to the local range and they were able to sample several of our firearms. They definitely got a kick out of it and lamented the state of disarmorment to which England has surrendered. England and Australia are good examples of surrendering your rights a bit at a time and eventually you are slaves to the state (and the criminal).

    While we may be a bit more harsh around the edges when it comes to our God given rights the USA isn't the wild west like many Europeans believe. As Robert Heinlein stated, "An armed society is a polite society." A criminal may not fear a 100lb woman but when she is holding a 44magnum on him he may lose bowel control. :-)

    Welcome and hopefully you can meet up with people here for dinner and learn about the local laws. There are good websites out there that go over the laws per state like: http://www.handgunlaw.us/ and http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws.aspx .

    The OC info cards are good too. http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws.aspx

  11. #11
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisgray View Post
    Hey, I have got the possibility of moving to Virginia soon.
    Me being from the other side of the pond (England) we barely get to shoot guns at all never mind
    actually owning one . So could you try and help me clear some things up. Much appreciated

    -Can a non citizen but legal resident own a gun
    -Does the constitution apply to non-citizen/legal residents
    -Can non-citizen/legal residents open carry
    -And lastly what kind of weapons are allowed to be open carried
    I can tell you from personal experience that in Virginia the answer to Q1 is yes and Q3 is yes.

    Others have already answered 2 & 4, and yes I know that 1 and 3 have been answered, I'm just adding that I have personal proof of the answers to those questions.

    Virginia is a beautiful place, embrace the culture, don't try to make it like the place you leave behind. I have fond memories of the place I grew up, but last time I was there, it had changed too much (and not for the best). There are parts of VA that are better than others, I think peter nap considers the North Anna River the dividing line. Let us all know what part of VA you're coming to and I'm sure you'll find people here willing to welcome you to a dinner or breakfast and answer your questions in person. Take a look at VCDL.org, the premier gun rights organization in VA, at the very least sign up for the free email alerts, but we'd rather you actually joined.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    --snip-- I'm sure you'll find people here willing to welcome you to a dinner or breakfast and answer your questions in person. Take a look at VCDL.org, the premier gun rights organization in VA, at the very least sign up for the free email alerts, but we'd rather you actually joined.
    Now there is the sign of a true believer. He's been there and done that.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Also, if you're going to be in the Richmond area and are looking for any training with firearms, I know there are plenty of options available but I've had nothing but good experiences with OCDO member ProShooter's organization. You're welcome to search for other recommendations too.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    Also, if you're going to be in the Richmond area and are looking for any training with firearms, I know there are plenty of options available but I've had nothing but good experiences with OCDO member ProShooter's organization. You're welcome to search for other recommendations too.
    He scores again!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    Also, if you're going to be in the Richmond area and are looking for any training with firearms, I know there are plenty of options available but I've had nothing but good experiences with OCDO member ProShooter's organization. You're welcome to search for other recommendations too.
    Thank you for not mentioning VCDLPresident, who happens to be another NRA-certified trainer as well as being able to sign off on Utah permits. We need him busy at work on VCDL projects instead of going off to play at the range.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  16. #16
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Can a non citizen but legal resident own a gun
    One exception is that in Virginia you must show proof of citizenship (or of lawful admission for a permanent residence,) to purchase (from a dealer) anything the state has classified as an "assault rifle". Another dumb law passed in knee-jerk reaction to a single event, since we're not talking true assault weapons here, but just certain guns with "evil features."

    An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

    This means you couldn't purchase an AR15 with a thirty round mag or folding stock, but could buy one with a fixed stock and twenty round mag. And of course install a new stock and swap the mags ten minutes after walking out of the shop. Oh yeah.... no waiting periods here, either.

  17. #17
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    Also, if you're going to be in the Richmond area and are looking for any training with firearms, I know there are plenty of options available but I've had nothing but good experiences with OCDO member ProShooter's organization. You're welcome to search for other recommendations too.
    Thanks for the mention!!

    We'd be happy to help with any training needs!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  18. #18
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoom6zoom View Post
    One exception is that in Virginia you must show proof of citizenship (or of lawful admission for a permanent residence,) to purchase (from a dealer) anything the state has classified as an "assault rifle". Another dumb law passed in knee-jerk reaction to a single event, since we're not talking true assault weapons here, but just certain guns with "evil features."

    An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

    This means you couldn't purchase an AR15 with a thirty round mag or folding stock, but could buy one with a fixed stock and twenty round mag. And of course install a new stock and swap the mags ten minutes after walking out of the shop. Oh yeah.... no waiting periods here, either.
    Gotta call "BS" on that .. you do NOT have to be a citizen to purchase an assault rifle from a dealer in VA, a green card is enough. If you are a US citizen you have to prove that you are one, if you're not you just have to prove you have the right to live here permanently by showing your Permanent Resident Card (aka a Green Card) so that your A # can be listed on the background check form. For a GC holder that's what we have to do to purchase a handgun from a dealer anyway, purchasing an assault rifle requires no further proof of ID for us than we provide for any other firearm purchase.

    Can't 'cite' a law, but I can say I've been there and done that, bought the assault rifle from a dealer just using my DL, Car Registration, Green Card & the previous 90 days worth of bank statements proving I'd lived in VA for at least the 90 days prior to the purchase (exactly the same stuff I'd have to show if I wanted to buy a 6 shot revolver from a dealer)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    so the next logical step would be to ask if LouisGray has a green card......Do you? If so get what ever you like. I wonder if there would be any legal way around it. I assume if there is such thing as a perminant residency than there is such thing as a nonperminant residency. Can you still buy a firearm with a nonperminant?

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    so the next logical step would be to ask if LouisGray has a green card......Do you? If so get what ever you like. I wonder if there would be any legal way around it. I assume if there is such thing as a perminant residency than there is such thing as a nonperminant residency. Can you still buy a firearm with a nonperminant?
    Sweet jumping baby Jeebus on a pogo stick!

    Tanner, try to keep up. Please!

    LouisGray is still a British subject living in (f)Great Britain -- sorry Mr. LG, but that's the way many of us on this side of the pond see what used to be Landing Strip 1 -- and is communicating/inquiring in case he does pull the plug on his current digs.

    From the lack of response I'm wondering how serious his plans might be. Either that or he was served with a ASBO for daring to look at a RKBA site.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  21. #21
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    k? so I guess I ment if he planed to be a perminant resident. Great scott skid. Give an idiot a break.

  22. #22
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    I can tell you from personal experience that in Virginia the answer to Q1 is yes and Q3 is yes.

    Others have already answered 2 & 4, and yes I know that 1 and 3 have been answered, I'm just adding that I have personal proof of the answers to those questions.

    Virginia is a beautiful place, embrace the culture, don't try to make it like the place you leave behind. I have fond memories of the place I grew up, but last time I was there, it had changed too much (and not for the best). There are parts of VA that are better than others, I think peter nap considers the North Anna River the dividing line. Let us all know what part of VA you're coming to and I'm sure you'll find people here willing to welcome you to a dinner or breakfast and answer your questions in person. Take a look at VCDL.org, the premier gun rights organization in VA, at the very least sign up for the free email alerts, but we'd rather you actually joined.
    God loves you for saying that as do real Virginians.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    God loves you for saying that as do real Virginians.
    And Peter Nap can maybe stop digging so many punji pits.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    k? so I guess I ment if he planed to be a perminant resident. Great scott skid. Give an idiot a break.
    I'm telling you Tanner, it's those tags. They cloud your judgment!

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    And Peter Nap can maybe stop digging so many punji pits.
    Don't you remember Grape, I gave Scouser honorary and permanent Southern Residency early on!

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