Road Rage and Guns

So, it's been an exciting week!

Today, some jack@$$ in an Audi cut me off out of nowhere and almost hit me. When I laid on the horn and switched to the furthest lane, he cut me off again and slammed on his brakes. I'm very fortunate to have just gotten my brakes re-done, or I would have hit this guy, as I'm sure he intended for me to do. This nut job exits the vehicle and starts towards my car, yelling at me. I get out of mine, as well as my brother, and exchange a few choice words with yet another deranged driver here in Portland. Meanwhile, this guys poor wife gets out as well and looks completely embarrassed. I asked why he felt the need to cut me off, and then get mad at me for using my horn, and then continue to endanger not just my life, but my brothers by slamming on his brakes in the middle of traffic. I get a nice "Who the F do you think you are?" and he starts walking towards me. My brother, who had literally just graduated high school an hour prior to this, tells him to stop being an @sshole and leave. He starts towards him, and I reach for my Glock. While keeping it holstered underneath my suit jacket(with my hand around it), I informed him that I was armed and that if he kept physically and verbally threatening us that I would have no choice to draw on him. Luckily, he left after that, but followed me for a good 20 more minutes right on my @ss.

Looking back, I don't think I needed to mention having a gun to him. I definitely could have handled it a little better, and been a little calmer, but putting a family members life in immediate danger is a no-no for me.

So, looking for feedback on how I could have handled the situation better, if there was anything else I should have done, etc. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a full plate number, but I've got a decent description of the man and his car as well as the first four digits.

When the actor calls in a rhoid-rager with a gun, and a legally armed citizen is found to indeed have a gun, who do you imagine will be believed? If you are in an altercation and let your opponent know that you have a gun then your next action must be notification of the cops of the incident and that you displayed your gun.

Your gun is like your other 'gun', keep it in your trousers 'til there is 'fighting' to be done.

Herr Heckler Koch said:

When the actor calls in a rhoid-rager with a gun, and a legally armed citizen is found to indeed have a gun, who do you imagine will be believed? If you are in an altercation and let your opponent know that you have a gun then your next action must be notification of the cops of the incident and that you displayed your gun.

Your gun is like your other 'gun', keep it in your trousers 'til there is 'fighting' to be done.

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Thank you. I was going to put off the PD report until tomorrow, but after that I think I'll go in and do it tonight.

Should anything like this ever happen again, you should try and remember to call the police the moment they force you off the road. You have no idea what their intentions are. But considering their negligent behavior with regards to your safety and their own, it would be safe to assume they aren't selling Girl Scout cookies.

Getting involved in the discussion was your second mistake.

Saying you were armed and ready to draw down on him was another, and I'd have to check WA law to see if it was also illegal. But it is definately not good tactics to force the other side to have to decide to macho-up or crawfish. Based on your comment about his wife's response I'd be willing to guess that was not the first time he thumped his chest at someone.

Question: When "I get a nice "Who the F do you think you are?" and he starts walking towards me" happened - why did you not drive off? The other guy is a jerk. He's a dangerous idiot, too. But I can see no reason for you to remain there and exchange comments on parentage and educational accomplishments. (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by believing you were not already out of your car, willing and ready to become a grease-stain on the side of the road in front of your brother who would forever remember the day he got his diploma as the day his brother got killed because of some stupid road rage incident.)

So if you were looking for sympathy it looks like you came to the wrong place. Guns are for when all other options have been exhausted. Evade/disengage is often the first option - choose it and all the others become unnecessary.

stay safe.

Back in the day, I had a similar situation. I was cut off by some douche, hit my horn and he decides to stop in front of me and get out of his car "ready to rumble". I get out of my car and he decided quickly it was a mistake. I am not exactly a small stature person. He decided it was best to apologize and get back into his car and took off like a bat out of heck. Now a day you have to be more careful because there are ganger's, and other such mental deviants that may not think twice about doing harm.

I do have to add that unless you felt your life was in danger, the gun reference and pull stature was unwarranted.

this is a planet where danger abounds. how one reacts to it may determine the outcome. i see nothing wrong with a firm grip on a firearm if you are being assailed. depending upon your state's laws ofcourse. i wouldnt have told the assailant, i would have just let him figure it out. you just never know these days, prime example;

coming out of my building one day, nearing my vehicle at the edge of my parkinglot. out from behind my building, coming from a place they should have not been comes a local walking across the parkinglot straight toward me. i veered off at a right angle to him, and went to the 'ready' position; safety snap on holster released, hand on gun ready to draw, not visible to the walker. nothing happend thankfully, but like The BoyScouts say; be prepared! Every day is a surprise of some kind.

I must have missed something. Why did you get out of your car?

I, too, would have laid on the horn and changed lanes if possible. Though strictly, in Virginia, that would be "aggressive driving" - pttthh.

After that, the safe thing would have been to put as much room between him and you as possible. Putting room between him and you DOES NOT involve stopping near him or exiting your vehicle.

Should he choose to follow, harass, or otherwise endanger you after that, a cell phone is your friend. Call 911, and be prepared to defend yourself IF an immediate threat presents itself.

That's my $0.03.

@skidmark: Definitely not looking for sympathy. Like I posted, I'm trying to get input on how I could have handled it better, stuff like that. You are right; I really shouldn't have even given him the satisfaction of an argument. I was just so enraged that he just blatantly disregarded our safety, as well as his wife's, and got mad at me for something he did.

I initially got out of the car because he started towards my brother after he said something to him. I was seated when he was walking towards me, but I moved in case he tried to become violent. Although he's 18, my brother is only about 5'8'', and this guy was easily my size (6'1''/200LBs.)

That's what I was thinking, also, that the reference to my gun was kind of unnecessary. Although I did not find his person to be "life threatening" (I can handle my own fairly well), his actions were and I was really not looking to get into a physical altercation and spend the day in jail and writing statements. With my brother. I consider a 2,000+ pound car a deadly weapon, but I'm not sure if the state of ME does.

Was it wrong to discreetly threaten my harasser with my gun and use it to diffuse the situation?

MainelyGlock said:

Was it wrong to discreetly threaten my harasser with my gun and use it to diffuse the situation?

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The mistakes were made long before it got to this point -- that's why it got to this point.

1) Never stop, call 911 if necessary. If they continue to harass you with their vehicle, give 911 a blow-by-blow account.
2) If you're forced to stop by the other vehicle, roll up the windows and don't get out. You should already have 911 on the phone at this point, continue to describe the situation. If you have a camera, start taking pictures.
3) If they start damaging your car, keep talking to 911, keep taking pictures.
4) If they try and break the window, NOW is the time to step up your game. Broken glass on the inside of the car at a shooting incident is going to look good for your defense along with a long 911 recording about how you tried to avoid a confrontation.

O2

The goal always is to not to get in the situation where you might have to shoot someone in the first place! This means backing down from fights, no matter how much you're called a chicken.

O2HeN2 said:

The goal always is to not to get in the situation where you might have to shoot someone in the first place! This means backing down from fights, no matter how much you're called a chicken.

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Mostly. There is some situations where it is best to put yourself into that you may need to use your firearm.

09jisaac said:

Mostly. There is some situations where it is best to put yourself into that you may need to use your firearm.

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Examples perhaps?? Or links if there is any??

When a road-rager starts harrassing me, I simply slow down, move right, and call the *ABC number posted alongside the highways to report aggressive/dangerous drivers. They've all given up after a few seconds. One guy tailed me for about a mile before speeding up and flipping me off. I simply pretended like I didn't see him, and he sped off.

modernknight said:

Examples perhaps?? Or links if there is any??

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Mostly to protect people you love/care about. Say you hear an intruder in your house. You can either bar your door and forsake your family or you can, in an attempt to protect your family, confront the intruder.

Or to protect someone against a BG with a melee weapon (knife/baseball bat). You may be able to defuse the situation simply by showing that you have a firearm.

You let him get the better of you. When stuff like this happens why not use it to practice anger management? Make a joke, avoid the guy. Instead you got sucked into playing a game that could have ended badly for you. You were really going to shoot an unarmed man over a little jockeying in traffic that could have EASILY been avoided by you? Not cool.

sawah said:

You let him get the better of you. When stuff like this happens why not use it to practice anger management? Make a joke, avoid the guy. Instead you got sucked into playing a game that could have ended badly for you. You were really going to shoot an unarmed man over a little jockeying in traffic that could have EASILY been avoided by you? Not cool.

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Thank for yet another one of your insightful posts. Tell me, how was him running me off the road so easily avoidable? I forgot that you were there, and saw everything.

MainelyGlock said:

Thank for yet another one of your insightful posts. Tell me, how was him running me off the road so easily avoidable? I forgot that you were there, and saw everything.

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In truth, reading your post he did not run you off the road, you escalated by laying on your horn (how does sounding your horn help in any situation except someone backing out of a driveway not seeing you?).

When he stopped and got out why didn't you drive away? Oh, you saw a chance to indicate you had a firearm, once again proving that you take foolish chances. If the guy had gotten your license number and called in that you laid on your horn and then said you had a gun, what would your defense have been? You'd have possibly lost your carry permit and for what?

You should analyze your driving because you are evidently doing something wrong, causing road rage, getting pulled over for reckless driving. There's still time to take stock and stop this trend.

I myself can't really comment as I'm stuck in the middle of the yard here with this one.

sawah said:

In truth, reading your post he did not run you off the road, you escalated by laying on your horn (how does sounding your horn help in any situation except someone backing out of a driveway not seeing you?).

When he stopped and got out why didn't you drive away? Oh, you saw a chance to indicate you had a firearm, once again proving that you take foolish chances. If the guy had gotten your license number and called in that you laid on your horn and then said you had a gun, what would your defense have been? You'd have possibly lost your carry permit and for what?

You should analyze your driving because you are evidently doing something wrong, causing road rage, getting pulled over for reckless driving. There's still time to take stock and stop this trend.

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I'm not sure about you, but I use my horn to make other drivers alert. Not to try and "escalate" anything. He was turning into me, so I used it in an attempt to make him aware of what he was doing, because he clearly did not check any of his mirrors or look in his blind spot first. There you go, yet again, making assumptions for yourself.

If you take the time to read my posts above, instead of being a nuisance and just commenting, you'll see. I already stated that I should have just driven away. Had my brother not gotten out of the car first and essentially made himself a target, I probably would have.

I do not need to analyze my driving. I've had my license for almost 7 years, and have never gotten more than a parking ticket until this last week. I'm not sure what your problem is, but there's really no reason to think that every incident I post about it is automatically my fault. Maybe you're just a grumpy old man with nothing better to do; who knows? It's certainly not helping though, and is completely unnecessary. There's still time to take stock and stop this trend.

DWCook said:

I myself can't really comment as I'm stuck in the middle of the yard here with this one.

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