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Thread: New To Open In NH

  1. #1
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    Red face New To Open In NH

    I just recently started open carrying in New Hampshire. I grew up in Wyoming where the acceptance of guns in the household and on your hip is a lot more positive. While I haven't had any negative run ins yet so far (other than the Mall of NH where the chief refused to approach me and made one of her lower down the ladders do it) I'm mildly worried that I haven't covered all my bases.

    I'm a single mom of a two year old little girl, there isn't a chance I'm going anywhere unarmed. I'm still awaiting my concealed carry permit to come back from the town, so I'm open carrying in the mean time. On a weekly basis I have men approach me not only thanking me for carrying, but also questioning whether or not I've been bothered (especially in grocery stores, where they've [men] been asked to leave by management before). I just want to make sure I'm as educated as possible, I've nearly memorized the state laws, carry them with me in my purse and I try and think ahead and look up company policies before heading anywhere. The mall incident was in and out of Best Buy, quickly on the way home (though they have nothing posted.)

    Help a lady out here fellas

  2. #2
    Regular Member Tactical9mm's Avatar
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    Welcome to New Hampshire, the most free State in the Union.

    A few things need clarification; There is no CCW permit in the State of New Hampshire. We have a pistol license that allows you to carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle, and a loaded pistol concealed on your person. All other forms of carry do not require any permission from the State.

    Relevant Statutes are RSA 159:4 for unlicensed carry, and 159:6 for your license application. By law, they have two weeks (14 days) to approve or deny your application. I received mine at ten days.

    On paper, New Hampshire has suitability, but in reality is shall-issue.

    In Manchester, the mall has a posted sign at entrances (I recall seeing one the last time I was there, about a year ago) that prohibits weapons. Whether this has weight of law in NH, I'm not sure. If you are OC'ing, this would be an issue, as security and anyone else can see your pistol. CC'ing, well not so much as no one would detect the pistol. Again, I'm not sure if signs carry weight of law so I would recommend adhering to them. You won't see signs often in this State.

    As far as State law goes, I'm fairly sure the only off-limit area is a court house. Anything else goes. If this statement is not correct, I encourage anyone to chime in with a correction.

    Good luck, and again welcome to NH.

  3. #3
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    Welcome to NH. The farther south you go the more likely you may get some negative reactions, we have a lot of folks from the Peoples Republik of Massachusetts (also known as massholes) who like our (lack of) taxes but not our freedoms. You may also find that your sidearm is not welcome at the Steeplegate Mall in Concord, it is posted at the main entrance, in relatively small type (>.5") at the bottom of the sign of mall rules. I carry as often as possible but am unable to do so at work. Since I ride a motorcycle I have no safe storage so can't carry to work either, but pretty much everywhere/when else.

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    As already noted... courthouses are the only place off-limits by statute. The federal Gun Free School Zones Act applies until you have your license, but in reality it's a non-issue.

    Respect private property and don't carry there if you're told not to.

    Other than that, just beware of the Mass. state line, and carry away!

  5. #5
    Regular Member Freiheit417's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsgeek View Post
    ... we have a lot of folks from the Peoples Republik of Massachusetts (also known as massholes) who like our (lack of) taxes but not our freedoms. .
    I actually heard a young woman from Mass. say "Get a state tax PEOPLE!!!!" as she read the notice about the $4.00(?) use fee at Crawford Notch State Park (Ripley Falls). Apparently, she would rather have NH residents forced under penalty of the law to hand over more of their hard-earned money so she could hike for free in a NH State Park...grrrr. If I recall correctly, the "fee" was voluntary, not even required. Imagine that, the choice to pay a use fee rather than a mandatory tax. Freedom was definitely a foreign concept with her.

    I was open-carrying at the time. I wonder what she would have thought of that if she had seen me.

    P.S. This year was the first time I OC'd in NH as well. Everyone was very nice to me in northern NH (White Mountain area). I hope the folks from the PRM don't ruin the great state of New Hampshire.
    America, where freedom* reigns.

    *Freedom subject to change depending on jurisdiction and availability. Some freedoms may not be available due to local political expedience or prevailing political correctness. Please check Federal, State, County, City, or any other special district for applicable laws governing the extents of freedoms prior to purchase.

    -----------

    “What you see is the fringe of the fringe showing up in Hartford today." - Danny Malloy a.k.a. "The Governor" 3/11/2013

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    Sooo, can anyone inform as to whether "no gun" signs have the power of law in NH? For example at the hospital? I know that I don't carry when I take my son to the Dr. because the hospital (Portsmouth Regional) is posted, because I am not sure if that sign carries weight of law. *I normally carry concealed, btw, and would do so if allowed by law to walk past that sign.*

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    There is no statutory mention of signage, except for posting land. The relevant passage is RSA 635:2 III(b)(2).

    http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../635/635-2.htm

    635:2 Criminal Trespass. –
    I. A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place.
    II. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor for the first offense and a class B felony for any subsequent offense if the person knowingly or recklessly causes damage in excess of $1,500 to the value of the property of another.
    III. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor if:
    (a) The trespass takes place in an occupied structure as defined in RSA 635:1, III; or
    (b) The person knowingly enters or remains:
    (1) In any secured premises;
    (2) In any place in defiance of an order to leave or not to enter which was personally communicated to him by the owner or other authorized person; or
    (3) In any place in defiance of any court order restraining him from entering such place so long as he has been properly notified of such order.
    IV. All other criminal trespass is a violation.
    V. In this section, "secured premises'' means any place which is posted in a manner prescribed by law or in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, or which is fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders.
    VI. In this section, "property,'' "property of another,'' and "value'' shall be as defined in RSA 637:2, I, IV, and V, respectively.



    RSA 635:1 III. "Occupied structure'' shall mean any structure, vehicle, boat or place adapted for overnight accommodation of persons, or for carrying on business therein, whether or not a person is actually present. "Night'' shall mean the period between 30 minutes past sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise.
    Last edited by KBCraig; 06-09-2012 at 10:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    There is no statutory mention of signage, except for posting land. The relevant passage is RSA 635:2 III(b)(2).

    http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../635/635-2.htm

    635:2 Criminal Trespass. –
    I. A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place.
    II. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor for the first offense and a class B felony for any subsequent offense if the person knowingly or recklessly causes damage in excess of $1,500 to the value of the property of another.
    III. Criminal trespass is a misdemeanor if:
    (a) The trespass takes place in an occupied structure as defined in RSA 635:1, III; or
    (b) The person knowingly enters or remains:
    (1) In any secured premises;
    (2) In any place in defiance of an order to leave or not to enter which was personally communicated to him by the owner or other authorized person; or
    (3) In any place in defiance of any court order restraining him from entering such place so long as he has been properly notified of such order.
    IV. All other criminal trespass is a violation.
    V. In this section, "secured premises'' means any place which is posted in a manner prescribed by law or in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, or which is fenced or otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders.
    VI. In this section, "property,'' "property of another,'' and "value'' shall be as defined in RSA 637:2, I, IV, and V, respectively.



    RSA 635:1 III. "Occupied structure'' shall mean any structure, vehicle, boat or place adapted for overnight accommodation of persons, or for carrying on business therein, whether or not a person is actually present. "Night'' shall mean the period between 30 minutes past sunset and 30 minutes before sunrise.
    So I guess that's the state's long way of saying that, yes, that sign would technically be an "order not to enter [armed]" and therefore would make walking past that sign armed trespassing. Correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmicucci View Post
    So I guess that's the state's long way of saying that, yes, that sign would technically be an "order not to enter [armed]" and therefore would make walking past that sign armed trespassing. Correct?
    A sign can't be "personally communicated to him by the owner or other authorized person".

    So: no. A sign doesn't qualify, except for posting land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    A sign can't be "personally communicated to him by the owner or other authorized person".

    So: no. A sign doesn't qualify, except for posting land.
    Phenomenal, carry away I shall at the Doc's place in light of this new information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical9mm View Post
    Welcome to New Hampshire, the most free State in the Union.
    I would think AZ or AL were more free... They both have const. carry. And AL doesn't have icnome or property taxes (in many areas).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical9mm View Post
    In Manchester, the mall has a posted sign at entrances (I recall seeing one the last time I was there, about a year ago) that prohibits weapons. Whether this has weight of law in NH, I'm not sure. If you are OC'ing, this would be an issue, as security and anyone else can see your pistol. CC'ing, well not so much as no one would detect the pistol. Again, I'm not sure if signs carry weight of law so I would recommend adhering to them. You won't see signs often in this State.
    Signs do NOT carry ANY weight. If asked to leave, that DOES carry weight (trespassing; not firearm violations). The RSAs include locations where firearms are not allowed.

  12. #12
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    Do signs carry weight of law?

    As mentioned earlier, the RSA on "criminal trespass" clearly says one is guilty if he "enters or remains in any place", and "knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so". In theory, it would be a "violation", i.e., criminal trespass (635:2, IV), to be on private property in excess of whatever the landowner has posted as a condition for entry. In reality, however, they would simply ask someone to leave, making the efficacy of the signage a moot point, and raising the stakes to "misdemeanor criminal trespassing" if he were to refuse after having the warning "personally communicated to him". Signs are certainly going to be evidence of the property owner's wishes.

    One could be put into a position of having to PROVE, as an affirmative defense, that your OC (or CC, if discovered) in violation of "posted: no weapons" did not violate the "license or privilege" extended by the property owner to the general public. For comparison: In discussion with an F&G ranger today, he said even a property with signs for "hunting by permission only" is a restricted license: maybe you can be there (no fence, not posted against trespassing), but not if you're hunting without permission. The prosecutor, for trespass, just needs to show that the signs were posted "in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders". The defense might be "I didn't see the signs". Good luck with that one.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Tactical9mm's Avatar
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    Doobie,

    I'll link a URL that I based my statement on. I had previously put this up awhile back on OCDO in another forum area.
    Please note that it is based on a Libertarian perspective.

    http://mercatus.org/sites/default/fi...rgoed_Copy.pdf

    We should be getting another one for 2012 fairly soon. Hopefully we still make the cut for the number one overall spot.

    Constitutional carry would be great here, and I'm completely in favor of that happening. Until it does, ten bucks every four years lets us do as we please with pistol carry. Could be worse.

    It's only one part of "freedom", and we will get that carry right back (hopefully sooner then later).

    Cheers.

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