Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: .45 colt 250 grn speer gold dot?

  1. #1
    Regular Member punisherprice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    92

    .45 colt 250 grn speer gold dot?

    Ive heard these are the best HP on the market. Are they really worth $31 for 20 rounds? Im not really into the HP hype, lead round nose flat point has been putting people in the ground for a long time, why change it? And there is a lot of cheaper hollow points out there too. Lead works just fine in my ruger new model. Anybody have any experience with the gold dots in. 45 colt?
    "Si vis pacem parabellum" - If you want peace, Prepare for war.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    I think the people you should be asking are the folks who have been shot with GDHPs and with RNFPs, as they can best tell you which one worked best against them.

    SD ballisticse are supposed to be about sufficient penetration to reach "vital" organs and open holes of sufficient size to facilitate reduction of blood pressure by fluid leakage - all without blowing out the back and taking out an elementary school three blocks away.

    There are lots of sites on the web where you can compare "performance" in gelatin or pig carcasses or water jugs. Then decide if you want to switch from the old-school standby to he new kid on the block.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  3. #3
    Regular Member punisherprice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I think the people you should be asking are the folks who have been shot with GDHPs and with RNFPs, as they can best tell you which one worked best against them.

    SD ballisticse are supposed to be about sufficient penetration to reach "vital" organs and open holes of sufficient size to facilitate reduction of blood pressure by fluid leakage - all without blowing out the back and taking out an elementary school three blocks away.

    There are lots of sites on the web where you can compare "performance" in gelatin or pig carcasses or water jugs. Then decide if you want to switch from the old-school standby to he new kid on the block.

    stay safe.
    thanks for the reply. Ive seen way too many "expansion" tests that look amazing in water, but the human body isn't just one substance. There's bone, muscle, and organs stuffed in there. Ive heard different views also. Im somewhat new to OCing, been almost a year since i turned 18. A lot of people like JHP's and HP's because of the fear of overpenetration, but overpenetration means the bullet can exit and hit someone down the street. Those stories are pretty rare though. I like the idea of "poke the biggest hole, with the heaviest bullet." More blood out, more air in. But the 9mm fan club doesnt like that idea haha.
    "Si vis pacem parabellum" - If you want peace, Prepare for war.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    Quote Originally Posted by punisherprice View Post
    thanks for the reply. Ive seen way too many "expansion" tests that look amazing in water, but the human body isn't just one substance. There's bone, muscle, and organs stuffed in there. Ive heard different views also. Im somewhat new to OCing, been almost a year since i turned 18. A lot of people like JHP's and HP's because of the fear of overpenetration, but overpenetration means the bullet can exit and hit someone down the street. Those stories are pretty rare though. I like the idea of "poke the biggest hole, with the heaviest bullet." More blood out, more air in. But the 9mm fan club doesnt like that idea haha.
    Indeed.
    A lot of hype IS trumped up on JHPs vs. lead/and or/FMJs and such. Of the JHP's Ive tried and test for myself, the Gold Dots typically worked consistently as advertised- giving a decent balance between penetration/expansion with out disintegrating into a hundred peices, or shedding off 2/3 of their weight in jacketing (non-bounded JHPs).

    But ya, those tests are in water/gel, etc. Clothed, or not. And yes, people certainly are not made of either, usually arent naked, and usually have all manner of crap in their pockets, on their belts and so forth-all through which rounds often have to pass through-before even hitting the person him/herself.
    And then there's the person (s) being shot- there are so many variables there, alone. Not everyone is the same wieght/ muscle -content/ build, etc.

    The other thing is- JHPs are 50/50 at best- when they fail to expand as advertise-they act almost just like the same round in FMJ/Lead - when they DO expand as advertised- sometimes they do so TOO well-resulting in not penetrating deep enough.

    So, my own, personal, sollution? I split the difference- I load .45 with alternating loads - 230 GDHP/230 TMJ/230 GDHP/230 TMJ , etc.
    for about the 1st 4 rounds in my magazines, the remaining 8 are just TMJ. This way, fire a double-tap, you are sending one of each type down-range.
    Consider the more typical load-out (mostly used by 9mm/.40 victims...err users) of loading out the whole magazine with Brand X JHPs.-
    How effective is possibly firing 12-16 rounds of JHPs that work properly- but only penetrate 5 or 6 inches (vs. the 12" minimum standard) ?
    After John Q Victim has emptied his mag into the BG, and BG is still coming at him.....not a pleasant thought.. (and happens a lot more often than any marketing dept. for any ammo manufacturer want you to know about).
    Last edited by j4l; 06-10-2012 at 09:58 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    fl
    Posts
    1,835
    And the "over-penetration" myth? Largely just that- a myth- (when center-mass/torso hits are made).
    Can/does happen on extremity hits (forarms, hands,feet, etc.) from time to time- but the rounds usually have expended most of their energy, and/or been deflected off in some other direction.

  6. #6
    Regular Member punisherprice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    And the "over-penetration" myth? Largely just that- a myth- (when center-mass/torso hits are made).
    Can/does happen on extremity hits (forarms, hands,feet, etc.) from time to time- but the rounds usually have expended most of their energy, and/or been deflected off in some other direction.
    Ya i was talking more in general about the round passing through and down the street and hitting a bystander. I just dont think that would be possible. Handgun rounds have low velocities anyways. I cant imagine the round would pass through a vacuum (human body), not mushroom and destabilize, and still injure/kill someone. I like the lead round nose because it'll give me the penetration i need vs. A HP possibly flattening against a ribcage or sternum and not even near the vitals. But, lead doesn't get mangled and sharp edges like jacketed or copper HPs do. I run a 255 grn. LRNFP in my ruger, so i was looking for heavier hollow points in the 250 -260 range. Ive noticed a lot of companies make 200 or 230 grn rounds but i wouldve bought a xd45 or 1911 if i wanted rounds that light in 45 acp with similar ballistics or more ammo capacity. Do ya guys think a 260 grn jhp at 1200 fps in .45C would be too much? I shot some at the range, at the expense of my wrist, and it was accurate but follow up shots were slow. It was the loudest thing on the range that day haha.
    "Si vis pacem parabellum" - If you want peace, Prepare for war.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    IMHO, the most important consideration for a JHP is how well it feeds/cycles through your firearm.

    A couple of decades ago, I purchased a well-known and highly-touted JPH for my .380 ACP. The nose was conical, and the leading edge of the hallowed point was rather sharp. It would catch on the feed ramp at least one round per box! That's a HUGE unsat for a carry load. I switched to Winchester Silvertips and never had a problem in that firearm ever again.

    In large part due to my experience then, I still rely on a mix of Winchester ammo for my current carry weapon, with Ranger SXT's being my primary carry load, and Silvertips as my backup loads.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  8. #8
    Regular Member punisherprice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    IMHO, the most important consideration for a JHP is how well it feeds/cycles through your firearm.

    A couple of decades ago, I purchased a well-known and highly-touted JPH for my .380 ACP. The nose was conical, and the leading edge of the hallowed point was rather sharp. It would catch on the feed ramp at least one round per box! That's a HUGE unsat for a carry load. I switched to Winchester Silvertips and never had a problem in that firearm ever again.

    In large part due to my experience then, I still rely on a mix of Winchester ammo for my current carry weapon, with Ranger SXT's being my primary carry load, and Silvertips as my backup loads.
    Im more of a revolver person. While i do enjoy the tap, rack, and bang of jamming semis, Ive never had anything more than a stuck shell casing in a revolver cylnder. I personally own two revolvers, one in. 32 magnum and the other in. 45C. Both single action and they are my carry guns. I started out with a S&W Sigma and hated clearing jams and double feeds. I also like the heftiness thats goes along with em too haha.
    "Si vis pacem parabellum" - If you want peace, Prepare for war.

  9. #9
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    In the world of JHP bullets, the current thoughts for the best choices for self defense tend to lean towards bonded bullets. The Speer Gold Dot, Federal Tactical Bonded, Corbon "Barnes" (DPX), and though not classed as a bonded bullet the Federal HST series seems to hold together extremely well.

    Any bullet choice is a crap shoot (no pun intended) in that you just don't know for sure how it is going to perform in a specific target, during a specific shooting, and under specific variables. Certainly some bullets are better than others but there are just no guarantees. So we do the best we can in our selections, train with our chosen handguns, and pray that it all comes together should the time ever come when we have to call upon our carry gun.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •