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Thread: WTH is going on in Aurora?

  1. #1
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    WTH is going on in Aurora?

    Anyone want to start this thing going? How about Aurora's Finest detaining, at gunpoint, 19 vehicles at an intersection, at which they had received a tip that a suspect of a bank robbery was at the red light. Cuffed the drivers, searched their vehicles, finally found one with a couple pistols and some money, and bingo, they let everyone else go. Is this even America anymore? I hear about stuff like this going on in every major city in America, and we're a bunch of sheep if we just let stuff like this happen. There's a picture of this hardass SWAT type pointing a shotgun at this skinny dude in a green shirt, another SWAT type hiding behind a riot shield, also pointing a pistol at Green Shirt Dude, while Green Shirt Dude has his hand sin the air...They arrested the entire block, at gunpoint, and searched everyone's vehicle.

    Think they've ever heard of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution?

    If I'm missing a thread somewhere, man, point it out, because my blood is boiling...

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    That'll teach "Green Shirt Dude" not to ask "Why, Officer?"!!!!!!
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-10-2012 at 02:17 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  3. #3
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    But it's okay. No one got hurt and they got their guy. I don't understand why some people are so upset.
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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
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    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    You stupid "constitution" nuts are missing the biggest point of all!
    The crook got caught! And to you children... you get the best lesson of all, the a$$clowns with badges are gods, they can do anything to your mommy and daddy, and to you, with complete impunity! If you don't completely agree you're a terrorist.
    Whaaat a Coountry!

  6. #6
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    So what's the beef?
    You got....
    Felony menacing,
    Assault with a deadly weapon,
    False arrest,
    Unlawful (warrantless) search,
    And Springtime for Hitler in Aurora!
    What's the big deal?
    Did you not know America is fast becoming a police state?
    Eisenhower said it in his farewell speech, but it has been ignored.
    Now we see the emergence of the military industrial complex blooming in incident after incident.
    But don't worry... we won't do a darn thing about it.
    Except maybe complain on a forum when each new horror is manifested across this land.
    Welcome to the New World Order! It is coming straight down the pike, and we're helping it along!



    "When policemen break the law, there is no law!" ~Billy Jack

    These are all sworn officers who took an oath to preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
    How's that whole Constitution thing working out for ya'll?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-10-2012 at 09:03 AM.

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    And they arrested their "suspect" based upon the fact that he had two semi-automatic pistols, and a "money-band," whatever that means. I have seen no news that they recovered whatever "money" was stolen from the actual bank, if such money even existed in the first place. There is plenty of talk about a training exercise, to see what would happen, if the citizens would allow such a blatant walk on their Rights. It was interesting that one officer said (I'm going to paraphrase here...the actual quotes are easy enough to find online....) that everyone was uncuffed after they consented to a search of their vehicles, and that the good thing was they eventually got their guy. They had no information other than someone might be at the red light.

    So did they just un-arrest the occupants of the other 18 cars? Did they arrest them in the first place? There's no judge in the land that would uphold that charge, based simply upon how they conducted their raid on the intersection. (One can hope, anyway) Everyone was guilty until the search of their cars was complete. That is some pretty scary stuff people, and it's coming soon to an intersection near you!

    Cheers!

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    A riddle of sorts. If you take away the stinking badges what would you have in that photo ?

    Answer: Piracy on the highways.

    So where does this Aurora PD come up with this particular tactic ? From combat training, and service in Irag, and Afganistan I suspect. Come on back home boys- We appreciate your wartime service, but the streets of Colorado ain't some nuance of the war on terror.......
    "Extremism ALWAYS brings about its own destruction " ( Sir Edmund Burke)

    Jim Sherwood

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    Unfortunately, it's going to take the occupants of the vehicles pressing unlawful detainment charges to change anything. At least the news has the decency to take an idignant tone about it and people are asking the question about whether it is a constitutional violation.

    Springs-Colt, a money band would be a band that holds money together when a teller has it in their drawer. Not the kind of thing you just happen upon. There may have been a "legitimate" reason for said possession, maybe he tends to make large sum withdrawls, but that'd at least qualify as PC for his arrest. The rest of the detention is total BS.

    I did love how they at some point "figured out" that some of the vehicles might be bystanders with KIDS. Gee, ya think?
    Last edited by mahkagari; 06-10-2012 at 06:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Unfortunately, it's going to take the occupants of the vehicles pressing unlawful detainment charges to change anything. At least the news has the decency to take an idignant tone about it and people are asking the question about whether it is a constitutional violation.

    Springs-Colt, a money band would be a band that holds money together when a teller has it in their drawer. Not the kind of thing you just happen upon. There may have been a "legitimate" reason for said possession, maybe he tends to make large sum withdrawls, but that'd at least qualify as PC for his arrest. The rest of the detention is total BS.

    I did love how they at some point "figured out" that some of the vehicles might be bystanders with KIDS. Gee, ya think?
    My wife has worked in banks for many years. It is not uncommon to re-wrap large amounts of bills in a money-band for the customer, it makes it much easier to handle and is easier for the customer than using those little paper envolopes when you have a few large stacks. Notice I said large stacks not large sum... For all we know he could have had just gotten some $2 bill stacks he requested weeks ago for his own enjoyment of handing them out. (starbucks Feb 14th 2A celebration anyone?)

    You can also purchase your own, or request some from the bank directly (for a small fee if not accompanied by large stacks of money of course)

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  11. #11
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    My goal for the day is to complain to the mayor's office about the behavior of Aurora officers in general, and the police chief in particular, who doesn't feel any Constitutional issues arise from those storm trooper tactics. Worse, he feels the "End justifies the means". Just what any good petty tyrant might say when trampling the rights of citizens. What's the next logical step in that argument? Put every non-police or government citizen into a detention camp because somebody committed a murder within the city limits? And we know it was one of these people being held in a detention camp? Really, is that the argument they're going to pin their stars on?

    Somebody needs to speak up. Somebody needs to get in their face and complain; loudly and insistently.

    In fact, this ought to be investigated by the Feds. Violation of Civil Rights under the Constitution.
    Hey, they did as much for Rodney King, et al.

    Blessings,

    UPDATE:
    I just left a message for my city council person to call me back regarding this issue. In addition, I called the office of the mayor to demand an answer to my questions regarding the wholesale disregard of the Constitutional rights of Aurora citizens seen in this incident; wherein the Constitution of the United States of America, and the Constitution of the State of Colorado, were blatantly disregarded as police, oathbound to preserve and defend those Constitutions, cast them aside with gay abandon while exercising storm trooper tactics against innocent civilians illegally arrested and threatened at gun point.

    We need to rise up against this, and contact elected officials in Aurora, demanding that officers who acted like criminals be prosecuted, those who acted with disregard for Constitutional rights be reprimanded, and the police chief, who evidently does not understand the Constitution, be fired immediately.
    At least, that's the gist of the phone call I made to the Mayor's office. I am awaiting a call-back from them sometime soon.

    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-11-2012 at 10:16 AM. Reason: UPDATE

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    Talked to a CSPD guy about this last night. He says we live in a society where citizens don't need to be questioning Police on their tactics, as it's a Public Safety issue, and people just need to comply and let everything get sorted out. He said it wasn't a violation to detain them for questioning, as they were released shortly thereafter. I asked him if he puts cuffs on someone, does he have to read them their Rights, to which he replied that he always has, but this was a different case.

    I didn't really hang out ant chat with him much after that, as I was busy trying not to panic. I've known this guy for years, and he's just a dude like you and me, until he puts on the Uniform...I think that it's gotta suck pretty hard to be a Cop, and I wouldn't want to do their job, because it seems on a long enough timeline, they become what they are chasing, and seem to look at everyone as either Criminals, or Future Criminals. But hearing him justify his fellow officers tactics...that just blew me away.

    Someone should post the phone numbers of whoever needs an earful. This cannot get swept under the rug. This is happening in our own backyard people, and until we take it back, the Power is in their hands. I am just at a loss for what a normal citizen can do about a situation like this.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringsColt View Post
    Someone should post the phone numbers of whoever needs an earful. This cannot get swept under the rug. This is happening in our own backyard people, and until we take it back, the Power is in their hands. I am just at a loss for what a normal citizen can do about a situation like this.....
    Moreover, call ALL the local PD's with your opinion as a resident that this crap is not acceptable from Denver, Aurora, or anywhere else. They need to be on YOUR side as fellow residents, not the side of erring chiefs.

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    I've been having a FB chat with a neighbor who is also a retired Denver LEO. He is backing APD in this. He is doing a good job at wording his description of the events to make it sound like APD's actions were okay and justified. Makes me sick.

    That CSPD officer needs to have his badge taken away from him. His comment is so blatantly pro police state it is sickening.
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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Holy Crap guys! I'm not a conspiracy theorist or a hermit anti-gov type normally. I consider myself to be a very rational and level headed person. This incident has just revealed to me something that we all totally take for granted. Seriously, this is crazy scary stuff. I always told my wife, no matter what happens in this country I find it hard to believe that our military would ever actually obey an order to fire on innocent US citizens because they are all good guys in uniform. I have a LOT of friends that are current military who I know would never do that, so I assured her it would be unthinkable to have our military used to attack it's own citizens. I never relied on the leaders cause they are all twerps. But I always thought those guys in uniform would know better and would stop that kind of atrocity.

    Now, I'm not saying I think they will all turn on us tomorrow. I still trust the boys in uniform more than the cops honestly. But, you can suddenly see how the mindset is evolving in LEO's and possibly in military that somethings have to be done in a way that might violate their conscience, but it's safer this way. AND how an unscrupulous leader could take advantage of that mindset to turn military on the ones they are supposed to protect. And after enough time passes, you suddenly begin to realize how a strong leader can turn democracy into dictatorship with the willing help of the military. This has me pretty darn scared to be honest. Not for my sake. For my kids and their kids. I doubt we'll see any kind of power grab of that level in my lifetime, but wow, 10-15-20 years from now? It could happen.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringsColt View Post

    Someone should post the phone numbers of whoever needs an earful.
    Or just post the info of the officers. NOT for any illegal activity mind you.
    But a truckload of letters from America might help informing those officer that their on the job tactics they displayed is not what we pay them for.


    When I look at those pictures, all I see is a bunch of swollen ego's with a bunch of expensive tactical gear that they got in a federal grant.

    Couple that with a sleepy low crime town and a bored police force, you have a recipe for disaster.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Reading all of this is making my blood boil. So what are the fine citizens of Colorado going to DO about this? Government will get away with whatever the citizens under that government let it get away with.

    I quote: "The only way for evil to succeed is if good people do nothing."

    I am not a resident of Colorado, so anything I say probably will not carry a lot of weight, but I think I should send a message to Aurora PD anyway. What are you going to DO about this?

  18. #18
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post

    I always told my wife, no matter what happens in this country I find it hard to believe that our military would ever actually obey an order to fire on innocent US citizens because they are all good guys in uniform. I have a LOT of friends that are current military who I know would never do that, so I assured her it would be unthinkable to have our military used to attack it's own citizens.
    Why would you think that?

    Look at history, and Im not talking ancient history. Hell, just look at the past 50 years.
    There have been MANY modern and civilized nations who's police and military forces slaughter their own citizens.

    The bottom line is, we are dealing with a "pack mentality".

    You see, these officers pat each other on the back and justify this type of activity by saying "you did what you had to do" or "we just want to go home safe".

    Youd be surprised at how a group is people (especially well armed) can justify their behavior and the overwhelmingly sense of denial they are in regarding their actions.

    As Americans we like to think that we are safe from our government.
    However, we are on the threshold of a major tsunami of tyranny if we dont tread carefully.

    Since I was a young boy in the early 80's, I alone have seen our rights completely trampled on in the last 30 +/- years.

    All in the name of "keeping us safe".

    At this rate, I dont even want to imagine what this nation is going to look like in anther 30!

    We need real men in this country who does what's right and what needs to be done to ensure the safe path of our basic civil liberties.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  19. #19
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    Why would you think that?

    Look at history, and Im not talking ancient history. Hell, just look at the past 50 years.
    There have been MANY modern and civilized nations who's police and military forces slaughter their own citizens.

    The bottom line is, we are dealing with a "pack mentality".

    You see, these officers pat each other on the back and justify this type of activity by saying "you did what you had to do" or "we just want to go home safe".

    Youd be surprised at how a group is people (especially well armed) can justify their behavior and the overwhelmingly sense of denial they are in regarding their actions.

    As Americans we like to think that we are safe from our government.
    However, we are on the threshold of a major tsunami of tyranny if we dont tread carefully.

    Since I was a young boy in the early 80's, I alone have seen our rights completely trampled on in the last 30 +/- years.

    All in the name of "keeping us safe".

    At this rate, I dont even want to imagine what this nation is going to look like in anther 30!

    We need real men in this country who does what's right and what needs to be done to ensure the safe path of our basic civil liberties.
    I understand your points, and I don't discount them. I just keep in mind that our military is very different from most. We are totally volunteer and in general they don't have a gun held to their heads to do what most of those historical armies have done. The thing is, our military is full of people who truly want to defend our way of life. What I'm getting at is that I now see how even those guys can be confused and do things that they normally wouldn't. Again, I'm not bashing military at all. I know that my buddies would never do that. I trust them with my life and my kids. but those are guys I know WELL and have known for years. And by the time this all happens, they will be old and grey and in a rest home. It's just an uneasy feeling is all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    I understand your points, and I don't discount them. I just keep in mind that our military is very different from most. We are totally volunteer and in general they don't have a gun held to their heads to do what most of those historical armies have done.
    Interesting that politicians from both the left and right have been talking about changing that of late...

    The thing is, our military is full of people who truly want to defend our way of life.
    A) If that were true, I don't know why anyone would join the military to accomplish that objective.
    B) Like any other government employees, those who join the military make an economic calculation that the pay and benefits will be worth any hardships or risks they may incur.

    What I'm getting at is that I now see how even those guys can be confused and do things that they normally wouldn't. Again, I'm not bashing military at all. I know that my buddies would never do that. I trust them with my life and my kids. but those are guys I know WELL and have known for years. And by the time this all happens, they will be old and grey and in a rest home. It's just an uneasy feeling is all.
    As has been said before, "pack mentality."
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
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    O RLY?
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  21. #21
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Interesting that politicians from both the left and right have been talking about changing that of late...



    A) If that were true, I don't know why anyone would join the military to accomplish that objective.
    B) Like any other government employees, those who join the military make an economic calculation that the pay and benefits will be worth any hardships or risks they may incur.



    As has been said before, "pack mentality."
    I'm not gonna get into a discussion about how "bad" the military is. Glittering generalities are an invalid logical argument. While I would agree that some people do exactly as you say, it is not the overriding absolute. My only point in this observation is to shine a light on a the path that we are headed. I refuse to accept that we are already at that point because I know too many people who would not comply. And you can question that all you want. All I can say is I have a trust in these guys that can't be explained justly. BUT, with that said, I can completely see this path leading to the inevitable and whether that is 50 years, or 5 years I don't know. But in any case, it's not good.

    Let me clarify, when I say "these guys" I don't mean all military. I specifically refer to my personal friends that I know only. Not the mass, the few.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 06-11-2012 at 01:59 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    We like to say that governments rule by consent of the governed. Really?
    Who among us gave consent for red light traffic cameras at intersections all over Aurora?
    Who gave consent to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens after Katrina?
    Who gave consent to the massacre at Ludlow? Or the next massacre at Columbine Mine?
    Government/military/industrial attacks against civilians have been all too common in America over the years.

    Let's keep things a little closer to home, shall we?
    What about the Kent State killings by National Guardsmen who opened fire on unarmed students?
    What about the cops dousing peaceful protesters in California with pepper spray?
    What about the daily erosion of our rights and liberties seen in jurisdiction after jurisdiction across our nation?
    How about the killing of a marine corps veteran in Tucson Arizona last year, shot by a SWAT team that put 60 bullets into his body?
    Or the police shootings in California where so many bullets got fired, they could have wiped out a small band of insurgents?
    The list goes on and on, and some of it has been put on public display for all to see and understand who has the better firepower.

    Is it any surprise that, since the inception of television, the number of cop shows has dwarfed other types of programming?
    And the cops are always the good guys, even when they violate rules of engagement or Constitutional safeguards.

    The governments, at every level from Federal down to county and city, have convinced us to give up rights one after another.
    For our own good, of course, and the greater good of society at large.

    The greatest threat that Saturday in Aurora wasn't from the bad guy. He just robbed a bank.
    The greatest threat to civilians was having cops pull innocent citizens from their cars with guns pointed at them.
    Guns loaded, pointed at them, and the threat to their lives abundantly clear.

    Don't think our law enforcement is a threat to us? Why are police forces all over America becoming increasingly militarized?
    Because of terrorists? In Aurora, the only people terrorized were citizens confronted with cops pointing guns at them.
    They were terrified. Their children were terrified. Folks seeing this outrage on television were terrified.
    Who are our terrorists?

    Unless we Americans stand up for our rights, we will lose them sure as shooting.
    Unless we hold our elected officials accountable, they will end up being no-accounts.
    Unless we demand a level of dedication to their oaths, they will break them, as they did in Aurora on Saturday.
    Unless we all, every single American across this nation who love our Constitution and the inalienable rights they proclaim, there will be efforts made to alienate us from those rights.

    I made calls this morning, and you can check the time stamp on my update in a post above.
    My city council woman has not called back.
    The mayors office hasn't called either.

    They need to hear the outrage, from every corner of our land.
    And unless they do, they'll have scored another victory in the march toward tyrrany.

    When such abuse of power is evident, we must rise to confront it together.
    Whether it is a rogue cop in Canton Ohio, or a whole team of rogue cops in Aurora Colorado.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-11-2012 at 02:03 PM.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    ...Who among us gave consent for ...
    All the people that voted for the guy that had the most billboards up at election time.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    To anybody who says that the military would never take up arms against the citizens of the USA, you are kiddin right.

    Its already happened. Besides the examples that M-T brought up do you remember Ruby Ridge, a total military operation against US citizens, or Waco Tx a Janet Reno sanctioned massacre of US Citizens by our US Military

    It has happened and it will happen again.

    CH

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    To anybody who says that the military would never take up arms against the citizens of the USA, you are kiddin right.

    Its already happened. Besides the examples that M-T brought up do you remember Ruby Ridge, a total military operation against US citizens, or Waco Tx a Janet Reno sanctioned massacre of US Citizens by our US Military

    It has happened and it will happen again.

    CH
    I think I need to clarify something really quick here. My whole point was not to claim it would never happen. My WHOLE point was to explain that I can see how it WOULD happen. And not just that it would, but how the process is going to make it easier in the future.

    I don't know every single member of the military. I only know my friends, and I know they would not follow that order. And while I know that's hard to believe, all I can say is there is a bond there that most people don't understand. In a way that I trust these few people implicitly. I do not claim to trust all military members implicitly. Not a chance. My only point is, given the chance the men and women who are like my friends would not participate. BUT, they are becoming fewer and further between.

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