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Thread: WTH is going on in Aurora?

  1. #51
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    I have a shoting place/range in the front yard we have a photographer in Parker and an activist, pardon the term, in Aurora looks like it can get done, come on up Rob
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    lol .. awesome!.. =) I may do that.. I don't head north of CR much at all.. scares me up there lol..

    --Rob
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    =p , it's all good.. I suppose as long as the word gets out.. :P
    The range offer is still open =)

    --Rob
    This Friday is my day off. Spending all day might be tough, but I can come out for a session. And I don't have a wind muff yet, so wind noise is an issue. But I can check the cost of a muff too. Hey, anytime you want to any kind of video I'm down. Would love to see some Colorado based OCDO vids on YouTube. Or even some training review type stuff. Might be fun.

  2. #52
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    This Friday is my day off. Spending all day might be tough, but I can come out for a session. And I don't have a wind muff yet, so wind noise is an issue. But I can check the cost of a muff too. Hey, anytime you want to any kind of video I'm down. Would love to see some Colorado based OCDO vids on YouTube. Or even some training review type stuff. Might be fun.
    I made a mini 14 accuracy video.. :P .. I am NOT a video dude.. so yeah.. I may have to pay you for some quality stuff..

    My YT is 'irmbnet' if you want to see how horrid mine are..

    Back to Aurora.. where are we gonna video this MT!!!!

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
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  3. #53
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I made a mini 14 accuracy video.. :P .. I am NOT a video dude.. so yeah.. I may have to pay you for some quality stuff..

    My YT is 'irmbnet' if you want to see how horrid mine are..

    Back to Aurora.. where are we gonna video this MT!!!!

    --Rob
    Howdy Again Rob!
    Where isn't as big an issue as when! I have been off work Saturday, Sunday and Monday. My last free day is Tuesday (as in today already).
    Then I am back to the day job until Saturday, but am slated for a trip to Alamosa. My next free days are Monday and Tuesday after that.

    On a side note... how is this for irony?
    You had a plethora of cops putting handcuffs on innocent citizens because some schmuck robbed a bank.
    But when the banksters robbed America blind in 2008.... who ended up wearing cuffs?
    Aside from Martha Stewart, nobody was approached with weapons drawn, dragged from their cars, had their kids terrorized, ended up in handcuffs, arrested without Reasonable and Articulatable suspicion (much less probable cause), held for 2 hours, menaced, their rights violated, their cars searched, or any of the other abuses that went on in Aurora.

    When a bad guy robs a bank, it's trouble for everybody in the area, and deadly force is deployed and ready...
    When banks plunder America and rob us to the brink of financial collapse, we bail them out.
    So far as I am aware, not one single citizen was offered a chance to bail out of their detainment.

    Just in case anybody is confused about who governments really care about...

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  4. #54
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Again Rob!
    Where isn't as big an issue as when! I have been off work Saturday, Sunday and Monday. My last free day is Tuesday (as in today already).
    Then I am back to the day job until Saturday, but am slated for a trip to Alamosa. My next free days are Monday and Tuesday after that.
    I am taking Monday the 18th off, I begged and pleaded my daughter to spend an extra day with me this weekend.. lol..
    I work days and have pistol classes 2 days next week in the evening. (wow.. OC'ers really do have firearms training eh?.. seems its all I do lately)
    The 23rd is out due to my morning range detail and meet n greet in the afternoon. Sunday the 24th is good I think..

    If we can get the uber video guy down that'd be cool too.. I have an HD JVC camera, but it sounds like he's got better equipment..

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  5. #55
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum_Intus View Post
    I am taking Monday the 18th off, I begged and pleaded my daughter to spend an extra day with me this weekend.. lol..
    I work days and have pistol classes 2 days next week in the evening. (wow.. OC'ers really do have firearms training eh?.. seems its all I do lately)
    The 23rd is out due to my morning range detail and meet n greet in the afternoon. Sunday the 24th is good I think..

    If we can get the uber video guy down that'd be cool too.. I have an HD JVC camera, but it sounds like he's got better equipment..

    --Rob
    Hmm... Sunday the 24th. Let me check, but I might actually be able to handle that one. I have 2 Sony HD cameras. They aren't pro-model, but they are top quality. The video camera is similar to what you see on TV when they have a little single hand held. The other one is a SLR type digital that also does full HD video. So I wouldn't call it movie studio quality. More like public access cable level.. LOL. Besides, more cameras = better shots.

    BTW, Rob, I did watch some of your vids. There not bad really. Looks like you might have used something like Windows Movie Maker? It's always tough to make a really high quality video when you do it by yourself. So don't be so hard on yourself.

    Oh and if you guys want to do anything outdoors, I will definitely order a dead cat for my mic.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 06-12-2012 at 08:31 AM.

  6. #56
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    The other one is a SLR type digital that also does full HD video. So I wouldn't call it movie studio quality. More like public access cable level.. LOL.
    Don't be so quick to come to that conclusion! The opening sequence to "Saturday Night Live" and a lot of the later episodes of "House" were shot with a Canon 5D Mk II SLR.

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
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  7. #57
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    Don't be so quick to come to that conclusion! The opening sequence to "Saturday Night Live" and a lot of the later episodes of "House" were shot with a Canon 5D Mk II SLR.

    O2
    Yeah, the quality of cameras is pretty amazing lately. I actually happen to know that there are several TV shows and "documentary" type shows (Mythbusters, top gun, etc.) that use either the same camera I have or it's newer brothers to do close action and "disposable" shots. Isn't it sad when a $1500 camera is called disposable to a TV show and you would consider it to be a super delicate and precious object? But hey, they spend $150,000 on some of their cameras that end up being trashed.

  8. #58
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Folks!
    We like to say that governments rule by consent of the governed. Really?
    Who among us gave consent for red light traffic cameras at intersections all over Aurora?
    Who gave consent to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens after Katrina?
    Who gave consent to the massacre at Ludlow? Or the next massacre at Columbine Mine?
    Government/military/industrial attacks against civilians have been all too common in America over the years.

    Let's keep things a little closer to home, shall we?
    What about the Kent State killings by National Guardsmen who opened fire on unarmed students?
    What about the cops dousing peaceful protesters in California with pepper spray?
    What about the daily erosion of our rights and liberties seen in jurisdiction after jurisdiction across our nation?
    How about the killing of a marine corps veteran in Tucson Arizona last year, shot by a SWAT team that put 60 bullets into his body?
    Or the police shootings in California where so many bullets got fired, they could have wiped out a small band of insurgents?
    The list goes on and on, and some of it has been put on public display for all to see and understand who has the better firepower.

    Is it any surprise that, since the inception of television, the number of cop shows has dwarfed other types of programming?
    And the cops are always the good guys, even when they violate rules of engagement or Constitutional safeguards.

    The governments, at every level from Federal down to county and city, have convinced us to give up rights one after another.
    For our own good, of course, and the greater good of society at large.

    The greatest threat that Saturday in Aurora wasn't from the bad guy. He just robbed a bank.
    The greatest threat to civilians was having cops pull innocent citizens from their cars with guns pointed at them.
    Guns loaded, pointed at them, and the threat to their lives abundantly clear.

    Don't think our law enforcement is a threat to us? Why are police forces all over America becoming increasingly militarized?
    Because of terrorists? In Aurora, the only people terrorized were citizens confronted with cops pointing guns at them.
    They were terrified. Their children were terrified. Folks seeing this outrage on television were terrified.
    Who are our terrorists?

    Unless we Americans stand up for our rights, we will lose them sure as shooting.
    Unless we hold our elected officials accountable, they will end up being no-accounts.
    Unless we demand a level of dedication to their oaths, they will break them, as they did in Aurora on Saturday.
    Unless we all, every single American across this nation who love our Constitution and the inalienable rights they proclaim, there will be efforts made to alienate us from those rights.

    I made calls this morning, and you can check the time stamp on my update in a post above.
    My city council woman has not called back.
    The mayors office hasn't called either.

    They need to hear the outrage, from every corner of our land.
    And unless they do, they'll have scored another victory in the march toward tyrrany.

    When such abuse of power is evident, we must rise to confront it together.
    Whether it is a rogue cop in Canton Ohio, or a whole team of rogue cops in Aurora Colorado.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    You are right on. There is another thread on this, btw, in the social lounge where I have posted my comments.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 06-12-2012 at 11:46 AM.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  9. #59
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBWolf View Post
    Not sure if this has been seen on the forums before, but I ran across this tonight and after reading the post though if this was law in Colorado what could have happened in Aurora could have gotten really ugly very fast.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...on-police.html
    Good for Indiana! They shoved it up their pos supreme court's ass, where the ruling belonged, and defined the basic right to defend yourself against nazi scum wearing badges. Thanks for the post, I hadn't read of it before. Colorado should pass the exact same wording and the Aurora SS would have thought twice. Finger on the trigger of a shotgun pointed at an innocent citizen who had committed no crime nor was reasonably suspected of one and terrorized children. I just hope someone files suit in Federal Court against these vermin and the ******* chief of police is fired.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  10. #60
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    You are right on. There is another thread on this, btw, in the social lounge where I have posted my comments.
    Howdy Pardner!
    I will check on that momentarily. Meanwhile, I am going to post the text of a letter I just fired off to the Mayor's personal email address.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  11. #61
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cch10000 View Post
    To anybody who says that the military would never take up arms against the citizens of the USA, you are kiddin right.

    Its already happened. Besides the examples that M-T brought up do you remember Ruby Ridge, a total military operation against US citizens, or Waco Tx a Janet Reno sanctioned massacre of US Citizens by our US Military

    It has happened and it will happen again.

    CH
    Neither event had any military involvement, as it is prohibited under the Posse Comitatus act. Ruby Ridge was fbi and murdering US marshal 'snipers.' Waco was fbi and batfe thugs. No military took part in either, it was the Federal Gestapo in both. They were and are baby murdering, pos thugs.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  12. #62
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Open Letter to the Mayor of Aurora, Colorado

    Howdy Folks!
    Here is an exact copy of a letter I just sent over via email to the mayor of Aurora Colorado, expressing my umbrage as a citizen of this city.
    The outrage I feel is intense, and I am unwilling to simply allow this to go unchallenged.

    I apologize if this is long, but I thought you'd like to see what I said in demanding a redress of grievance to my local government offical.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Mr. Mayor:

    I am writing today to express my utmost outrage at the violation of citizen's rights within the city of Aurora in an incident that has gained national attention for storm trooper tactics and reckless endangerment of innocent citizens of our city.

    Look at the photo below. Is this the sort of America we want? Is this the sort of city Aurora has become? A virtual police state where the rights and liberties of citizens are cast aside in favor of expediency?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    On Saturday before last, police conducted a traffic stop of some 19 vehicles in order to snare one bank robber who had just held up a local Wells Fargo bank. That act resulted in unlawful detainment of citizens, false arrest as they were handcuffed and set down on a curb nearby, illegal search of their vehicles in overt violation of the 4th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, and lives threatened at gunpoint by officers sworn to serve and protect those very citizens whose Constitutional rights were trampled in a stampede of law enforcement illegal activities.

    It is nothing short of "assault with a deadly weapon", along with felony menacing, to point a loaded gun at a human being. Officers broke the law when pointing loaded weapons at innocent civilians in such manner, and every officer so inclined to aim his weapon at a citizen ought justly to be dismissed from service and prosecuted as demanded by justice. Families were pulled from their cars, which is supposed to be an extension of their home under law, and searches conducted of those vehicles without warrants as required by law. Without reasonable and articulable suspicion providing probable cause, citizens were arrested without charges or due process of law.

    The sheer number of laws broken by men sworn to uphold those very laws stuns the conscience of any reasonable member of a civil society. These men took swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, and the Constitution of the State of Colorado, from all enemies, foreign and domestic. But they cast aside any and all Constitutional rights of these citizens of the city of Aurora in favor of expediency. They failed to uphold their oaths as police officers to serve and protect, and instead, threatened law abiding citizens at gunpoint!

    The Constitution of the United States of America is the fundament of all laws in our nation. The Constitution of the State of Colorado is the foundation of our laws in this state. Yet, we see police throwing away and trampling over the constitutional rights of citizens who they are sworn to serve and protect! The law isn't something that can be set aside on the whim of law enforcement. The law cannot be dismissed when inconvenient. The law cannot be mocked by officers when it is cumbersome or awkward. The law must be upheld, and when violated by law enforcement, there remains only tyranny!

    The citizens of Aurora Colorado are entitled to the rights of life, liberty and happiness just as are all Americans. But their rights were not just infringed, but eliminated in a police action more befitting something in Soviet Russia or 1930's Germany than the United States of America.

    Our chief of police, either through ignorance of the Constitution or abject disregard of the rights of citizens he has sworn to serve stated "The ends justify the means!" How familiar those words must be to people that have lived under totalitarian regimes? How similar those words are to what Germans heard from the Nazi party as they saw rights and liberties eliminated wholesale by a rogue regime. If our chief does not uphold the Constitutions of the United States and the State of Colorado, I submit to you that he is unfit for command and ought to be immediately released from his position.

    I have included a variety of links to illustrate the outrage that I, as a citizen of Aurora, and freedom loving Americans from coast to coast are feeling about this travesty and injustice against our own citizens. How can you let this one go unchallenged? How can you not be demanding a full investigation of this incident? How can you not request CBI and the FBI to get involved? I've heard that FBI agents were involved, and because of that, I would suggest their superiors investigate their negligence to duty along with the City of Aurora's usurpation of citizen rights.

    The City of Aurora, because of this incident, is likely to be sued, and deservedly so! Whether any of those victims of police behavior decide to file suit or none do, does not dismiss the fact that Constitutional rights were trampled under jack-booted feet of law enforcement officers who have cast aside their oath to defend those rights.

    It is my intention to meet with citizen groups across the state of Colorado, to seek investigation from the office of the Governor of Colorado, and to contact my federal representatives to redress this grievance.

    Mr. Mayor; you have an opportunity to do the right thing here. You have a duty to correct a horrific wrong perpetrated against your constituents in Aurora. You have an obligation to the tax payers of this city to straighten this out and end tactics by the police that terrorized women and children while breaking dozens of laws in the bargain. The war on terrorism does not give license to the police to terrorize Aurora's citizens.

    I anticipate your reply and urge you to take an assertive role in correcting the police department for egregious violations of Constitutional rights manifest in this incident.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6U1F...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...QfV-NlUHI&NR=1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqTj4...feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrRKwvc3Tgw

    Respectfully Yours,

    Aurora, Colorado
    303-319-1077
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-12-2012 at 12:27 PM.

  13. #63
    Regular Member Bellum_Intus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    Howdy Folks!
    Here is an exact copy of a letter I just sent over via email to the mayor of Aurora Colorado, expressing my umbrage as a citizen of this city.
    The outrage I feel is intense, and I am unwilling to simply allow this to go unchallenged.

    I apologize if this is long, but I thought you'd like to see what I said in demanding a redress of grievance to my local government offical.
    I love you.. nohomo.. =p

    --Rob
    Kenaz Tactical Group

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
    --Margaret Thatcher

  14. #64
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Excellent letter, M. Keep us informed of any reply. The mayor comes up for election when? The robber will walk. Anything found in his car is fruit of the poison tree and not admissable. He was falsely arrested, and even if he gave permission for the search, which is highly unlikely, it was coerced at gun point. The ******* city of Aurora is going to be a good deal poorer when this is all done.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 06-12-2012 at 12:45 PM.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  15. #65
    Regular Member CrackerJax's Avatar
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    So how do we prepare for this kind of thing?

    Hi everyone. New to the forum but this thread caught my eye.

    First of all a couple of questions: Does handcuffed equal under arrest? What is the difference between detained and arrested?

    What would have happened if you simply refused to get our of your car?

    "Am I under arrest or am I free to go?"

    If you were open carrying in your car, did they confiscate your pistol? Did they give them back?

    How would you calmly react in this situation?

    I totally agree that we need to keep this issue front and center and address our representatives. But I also would like to know the best response if it ever happens.

    I look forward to hearing more from you guys and having a look around at the other forum threads.

    Jax

  16. #66
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackerJax View Post
    Hi everyone. New to the forum but this thread caught my eye.

    First of all a couple of questions: Does handcuffed equal under arrest? What is the difference between detained and arrested?

    What would have happened if you simply refused to get our of your car?

    "Am I under arrest or am I free to go?"

    If you were open carrying in your car, did they confiscate your pistol? Did they give them back?

    How would you calmly react in this situation?

    I totally agree that we need to keep this issue front and center and address our representatives. But I also would like to know the best response if it ever happens.

    I look forward to hearing more from you guys and having a look around at the other forum threads.

    Jax
    I'm not an expert so take this a my own personal decisions. I've played something like this through in my head several times and wondered what would I do? The most important thing to me is to remember not to break the law. By attempting to stand for your rights you can inadvertently break a completely unrelated law and then you're screwed. I decided that for me, the first thing I would say is something along these lines.

    "Am I being arrested for a crime?"

    If the answer is no, my response is "OK, I want to be clear and calm and inform you that I do no consent to a search of my person or property. I will not resist your efforts in any way, but I do not consent to any search." I would allow them to handcuff and search all the while knowing they are acting illegally. But I would not resist or commit any other crimes in the process.

    While they don't have the right to search, the moment you begin to resist you are breaking a completely different law. And even you do sue for violation of your rites, they still have you for resisting arrest.

    Look up the 12031 (e) searches on youtube for some of the ways the people in Cali handled that violation.

  17. #67
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackerJax View Post
    Hi everyone. New to the forum but this thread caught my eye.

    First of all a couple of questions: Does handcuffed equal under arrest? What is the difference between detained and arrested?

    What would have happened if you simply refused to get our of your car?

    "Am I under arrest or am I free to go?"

    If you were open carrying in your car, did they confiscate your pistol? Did they give them back?

    How would you calmly react in this situation?

    I totally agree that we need to keep this issue front and center and address our representatives. But I also would like to know the best response if it ever happens.

    I look forward to hearing more from you guys and having a look around at the other forum threads.

    Jax
    Handcuffed at gunpoint and held for 2 hours is false arrest, period. There was no RAS, so the stop was illegal on its face. I would have asked for RAS before getting out of my car, refused to let them search, and filed suit against them the next business day for false arrest , aggravated assault, battery and violation of 4th amendment rights, plus conspiracy to deprive me of my constitutional rights. I would seek reasonable, say $20,000, damages, plus punitive damages of $250,000. For those who had children terrorized by these vermin, quadruple the damages. The chief of police is the most ignorant pos thug wearing a badge I've ever heard. The law is clear. He was right about that, and he and his Stormtroopers trampled it.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  18. #68
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    I'm not an expert so take this a my own personal decisions. I've played something like this through in my head several times and wondered what would I do? The most important thing to me is to remember not to break the law. By attempting to stand for your rights you can inadvertently break a completely unrelated law and then you're screwed. I decided that for me, the first thing I would say is something along these lines.

    "Am I being arrested for a crime?"

    If the answer is no, my response is "OK, I want to be clear and calm and inform you that I do no consent to a search of my person or property. I will not resist your efforts in any way, but I do not consent to any search." I would allow them to handcuff and search all the while knowing they are acting illegally. But I would not resist or commit any other crimes in the process.

    While they don't have the right to search, the moment you begin to resist you are breaking a completely different law. And even you do sue for violation of your rites, they still have you for resisting arrest.

    Look up the 12031 (e) searches on youtube for some of the ways the people in Cali handled that violation.
    You cannot be charged with resisting an unlawful arrest. This is settled law.

    “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

    “An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

    “When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

    “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

    “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

    “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

    “Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’ There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.

    As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 06-12-2012 at 12:56 PM.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  19. #69
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    You cannot be charged with resisting an unlawful arrest. This is settled law.
    Oh I know, but in the process of "resisting" how hard would it be to avoid the line of assault on the officer? In my mind, resisting the process ends up leading to further escalation in a really bad way fast. I know that they could not legally hold you for just the resistance charge. It would just concern me that something would go too far in the process and then everyone's in a world of hurt.

    Like I said, not really legal advice, just my own virtual walk through in my head.

    Just saw the updates. Thanks for those cites. Very informative. I still think in this case, with guns draw and fingers on triggers, I probably would not have given much fight. LOL.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 06-12-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  20. #70
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    "OK, I want to be clear and calm and inform you that I do no consent to a search of my person or property. I will not resist your efforts in any way, but I do not consent to any search."
    Suggested tweak: "OK, I want to be clear and calm and inform you that I do no consent to a search or seizure of my person or property. I will not resist your efforts in any way, but I do not consent to any search or seizure."

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

  21. #71
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    Suggested tweak: "OK, I want to be clear and calm and inform you that I do no consent to a search or seizure of my person or property. I will not resist your efforts in any way, but I do not consent to any search or seizure."

    O2
    Good addition. I like it.

  22. #72
    Regular Member CrackerJax's Avatar
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    Picture of Finger on Trigger?

    Does anyone have the link to this photo?

    And thank you so much for all the good information and ideas.

    Jax

  23. #73
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Good addition. I like it.
    Question is, will I remember it if I have a shotgun pointed at my head like the teenager in the picture?

    O2
    When seconds count, the police are mere minutes away...
    They'll never take your "hunting rifle", they'll call it a "sniper rifle" first.
    Zero failures comes at infinite cost.

  24. #74
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackerJax View Post
    Does anyone have the link to this photo?
    Howdy Jax!
    Yes.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  25. #75
    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Justification from a retired Denver LEO that I was discussing this on FB with.

    25 Aurora citizens unaware that an armed and dangerous bank robber had slipped into their area were swept up in a police “dragnet” as they sealed off the intersection that the suspect had stopped in. Officers swiftly, tactically, systematically and without deadly force successfully apprehended the suspect.

    As officers rapidly closed in on the suspect some citizens stood frozen in fear and were ordered to the ground, several citizens attempted to discuss and argue the situation and were promptly cuffed and secured as officers moved past. The suspect was in view and placed himself between the officers and citizens placing children in the line of fire. Officers sorted out the crowd and eliminated possible accomplices and released everyone.

    Officers had accurate, up to the minute, detailed information on the suspect and were able to bring the situation to a safe conclusion. (in an officers mind the decision is not how can we make everyone happy and feel good, but, how can we end the situation with everyone ALIVE)
    Last edited by Beau; 06-12-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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    Colorado Firearm law.
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    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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