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Thread: Are Oklahoman's ready for this?

  1. #1
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    Are Oklahoman's ready for this?

    I was all ready and waiting for Nov. 1 when we all can start OCing. In the couple days I've been a member of this forum I am now debating with myself if I am ready for this.

    I've read story after story and seen video after video in the last few days that make me wonder if it is really worth the hassle. When I say hassle I mean the way the public and LEO is going to treat anyone who is OC a gun.

    It appears there are a lot of uneducated LEO that can't stand the site of anyone but them to be able to open carry a gun. They abuse their authority, point their guns at you, threaten you and break the law while doing it.

    I'm not sure if I'm ready to be minding my own business one minute and fearing for my life the next minute over the simple fact that I have a tool on my side. A tool that I have every right to carry.

    Are you Okies ready for this?

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Most OCers are - they recognize that the more extreme hassles are few and far between. Perhaps of greater import is the knowledge that a right not exercised is a right lost.

    Take a look at OKOCA and get a better feeling overall of what and where this is going.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...KOCA%29-formed
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    Some people are not ready to OC for quite a while. The apprehension is understandable given all the horror stories out there. I can say from experience that I have OC'ed for a few years and have not had any issue. Others in the same state in which I OC'ed had several. I think it does depend on your comfort level. If you are not comfortable, you tend to draw attention to yourself with "nervous" behavior. If you are confident, folks tend not to notice, as has been my personal experience.

    We at OKOCA want to stress that we are not asking anyone to OC who is not comfortable with doing so. We invite attendees of our meetings and events to continue to CC or even not carry at all if they are not comfortable doing so. Many people who attend our meetings are simply looking for further information about OKOCA and the OC movement. As an experience OC'er I want to stress that you must wait until you are comfortable with the idea of OC before you attempt it. In the past I have found that most people find it is easier to OC for your first time if you do so in a laid back atmosphere such as an OC picnic or litter clean-up. OKOCA will be hosting such events in the future, so keep your eye out for those events. In the meantime, we will be holding several informational meetings around the state to provide information to those who want it.

    I personally look forward to meeting you at one of our meetings or events and doing anything I can to help you improve your comfort level. Even if you are never comfortable with OC, I still invite you to attend our meetings and even join our organization. We welcome all comfort levels.
    -U.S. Army Veteran (2002-2005) 11BVB4 (Infantry, Airborne, Ranger, some other stuff) SGT (E-5)
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    I am not an attorney. None of my statements should be accepted, nor are they intended to be offered, as legal advice or fact of law.

  4. #4
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    just remember Open Carry was practiced a lot longer than hiding you gun
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  5. #5
    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick1125 View Post
    I was all ready and waiting for Nov. 1 when we all can start OCing. In the couple days I've been a member of this forum I am now debating with myself if I am ready for this.

    I've read story after story and seen video after video in the last few days that make me wonder if it is really worth the hassle. When I say hassle I mean the way the public and LEO is going to treat anyone who is OC a gun.

    It appears there are a lot of uneducated LEO that can't stand the site of anyone but them to be able to open carry a gun. They abuse their authority, point their guns at you, threaten you and break the law while doing it.

    I'm not sure if I'm ready to be minding my own business one minute and fearing for my life the next minute over the simple fact that I have a tool on my side. A tool that I have every right to carry.

    Are you Okies ready for this?
    I had top go to VA for my first OC experience. After reading these forums for several weeks prior to the trip, studying the laws, reading how the local LEO's act towards OC'ers, I did it. Just a short outing from my hotel to a restaurant and back. Since then, I have met with OC'ers from several states and OC when I can. The more you do it, the less conspicuous you will feel. I suspect that my first OC experience in OK will be on Nov. 1 and will probably include a trip to Walmart, (corporate policy is to comply with the laws of the state, therefore, no gunbuster signs.)
    You don't say what part of OK you are in, but try to find a group of OC'ers to go to lunch or dinner with. It will help to have strength in numbers. I am in Broken Arrow, so PM me if you want in on the first day walkabout.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oklaccer View Post
    I had top go to VA for my first OC experience. After reading these forums for several weeks prior to the trip, studying the laws, reading how the local LEO's act towards OC'ers, I did it. Just a short outing from my hotel to a restaurant and back. Since then, I have met with OC'ers from several states and OC when I can. The more you do it, the less conspicuous you will feel. I suspect that my first OC experience in OK will be on Nov. 1 and will probably include a trip to Walmart, (corporate policy is to comply with the laws of the state, therefore, no gunbuster signs.)
    You don't say what part of OK you are in, but try to find a group of OC'ers to go to lunch or dinner with. It will help to have strength in numbers. I am in Broken Arrow, so PM me if you want in on the first day walkabout.
    OKOCA is planning various luncheons, picnics, and other events at which many of our members will OC. I would invite everyone who is interested to follow our event listings here: www.facebook.com/opencarryok

    These events will accomplish many goals. 1.) The opportunity for people who are new to OC to become comfortable with the idea. 2.) The strength in numbers you mention. 3.) The normalization of OC with law enforcement and private citizens alike. 4.) Most importantly - an opportunity for OC practitioners to glean knowledge from others who have OC'ed extensively and to just get to know one another. We are often a small segment of society and as such I personally feel that is important to develop a strong sense of community.

    The key thing to remember is that if one is not comfortable with OC, one should not OC. Most of the fears and hype that are being played up in the media will never come to fruition. We all know that Oklahoma is not the first state to allow OC. In fact, the state has a long way to go to catch up with what most of the country is doing. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here folks. We have a model that has proven successful in many other states and we want to share it.

    We need to unite and stick together on this. A united front will help us to accomplish constitutional carry much quicker than several satellite groups out doing their own thing. OKOCA wants to be that unifying force. We want to expand all over the state, but we can't do that without cooperation. If there is a need for a meeting in your area, please let us know.
    -U.S. Army Veteran (2002-2005) 11BVB4 (Infantry, Airborne, Ranger, some other stuff) SGT (E-5)
    -Public Service Professional - I've done it all: LEO, FF, and EMT
    -Certified NRA Instructor
    -CPL / CCW (whatever other acronym you can think of for carrying a concealed pistol) Instructor
    -Co-founder of OKOCA

    I am not an attorney. None of my statements should be accepted, nor are they intended to be offered, as legal advice or fact of law.

  7. #7
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    I think one thing that benefits Oklahomans right now with open carry is that it is a new thing for us. Since it is new, most LEA's will take a little extra time to educate their officers about OC and how they should interact with the public. This training may be skipped in some other states as it is already a legal practice so when an officer gets a call, they freak out over it.

    I'm sure Oklahoma will have some officers in some agencies that feel they need to harass law abiding citizens who are open carry, but I don't expect to see a large number of these.

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    Open Carry

    The last week of May, the wife, my grandson and I returned from Tombstone, Az. Arizona is a constitutional carry state meaning you don't need a license to open or conceal carry. New Mexico is the same way. When we left Oklahoma I concealed carry thru Texas. As soon as we crossed the border into New Mexico I began to open carry. After making several stops for gas and food breaks, no one said anything about my exposed gun. In Tombstone during the festivities of Wyatt Earp Days, many folks who participated in re-enactments had exposed weapons. Upon returning and crossing the border checks leaving Tombstone not one word was said about my exposed gun. Do I plan on open carry come Nov. 1 youbetcha, because it is my right to do so.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    I know how you feel when it comes to harassment. But, IMHO, OC is the best way to exercise 2A. Harassment is a growing pain of doing so. Just remember, "Wash, Rinse, Repeat." "I don't consent to answer any questions. For what crime am I being detained? Am I free to go?"

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    The new OC law in Oklahoma doesn't give you the right to remain unknown. If stopped by a LEO you MUST give them your carry license AND a state ID.

    So, if an anti gun person sees you OC they can just call 911 and a LEO will show up to demand proof that you are legally carrying.

    The right to harass goes to the sheep and they can use the police as their own personal way to trespass against your rights.

    If you happen to get a LEO that has the same views as the sheep they can use their authority against you and your rights.

    Luckily the law says the police can't disarm you unless you have comitted a crime. That doesn't mean they won't shoot you if they think you moved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield Smitty View Post
    OKOCA is planning various luncheons, picnics, and other events at which many of our members will OC. I would invite everyone who is interested to follow our event listings here: www.facebook.com/opencarryok

    These events will accomplish many goals. 1.) The opportunity for people who are new to OC to become comfortable with the idea. 2.) The strength in numbers you mention. 3.) The normalization of OC with law enforcement and private citizens alike. 4.) Most importantly - an opportunity for OC practitioners to glean knowledge from others who have OC'ed extensively and to just get to know one another. We are often a small segment of society and as such I personally feel that is important to develop a strong sense of community.

    The key thing to remember is that if one is not comfortable with OC, one should not OC. Most of the fears and hype that are being played up in the media will never come to fruition. We all know that Oklahoma is not the first state to allow OC. In fact, the state has a long way to go to catch up with what most of the country is doing. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here folks. We have a model that has proven successful in many other states and we want to share it.

    We need to unite and stick together on this. A united front will help us to accomplish constitutional carry much quicker than several satellite groups out doing their own thing. OKOCA wants to be that unifying force. We want to expand all over the state, but we can't do that without cooperation. If there is a need for a meeting in your area, please let us know.
    If people follow you on facebook can they join you at events or are events for members only?

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    Events are open to anyone who wishes to attend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick1125 View Post
    The new OC law in Oklahoma doesn't give you the right to remain unknown. If stopped by a LEO you MUST give them your carry license AND a state ID.

    So, if an anti gun person sees you OC they can just call 911 and a LEO will show up to demand proof that you are legally carrying.

    The right to harass goes to the sheep and they can use the police as their own personal way to trespass against your rights.

    If you happen to get a LEO that has the same views as the sheep they can use their authority against you and your rights.

    Luckily the law says the police can't disarm you unless you have comitted a crime. That doesn't mean they won't shoot you if they think you moved.
    Part of our efforts in communicating with LEA's will be asking them to train dispatchers who take such MWAG calls to ask questions to ensure that no crime is being committed. This is a significant part of training in other states which allow OC and will save a lot of time and taxpayer resources by not dispatching officers on unnecessary calls. Again, this is something that is very common in OC states and since there is already a model in place, there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick1125 View Post
    The new OC law in Oklahoma doesn't give you the right to remain unknown. If stopped by a LEO you MUST give them your carry license AND a state ID.

    So, if an anti gun person sees you OC they can just call 911 and a LEO will show up to demand proof that you are legally carrying.

    The right to harass goes to the sheep and they can use the police as their own personal way to trespass against your rights.

    If you happen to get a LEO that has the same views as the sheep they can use their authority against you and your rights.

    Luckily the law says the police can't disarm you unless you have comitted a crime. That doesn't mean they won't shoot you if they think you moved.
    Maybe just a tad overstated - A LEO can not will demand proper documentation.

    Then there is the extreme and unnecessary fear mongering that borders on LEO bashing. Suspect that the probability of getting struck by lightning are higher.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick1125 View Post
    The new OC law in Oklahoma doesn't give you the right to remain unknown. If stopped by a LEO you MUST give them your carry license AND a state ID.

    So, if an anti gun person sees you OC they can just call 911 and a LEO will show up to demand proof that you are legally carrying.

    The right to harass goes to the sheep and they can use the police as their own personal way to trespass against your rights.

    If you happen to get a LEO that has the same views as the sheep they can use their authority against you and your rights.

    Luckily the law says the police can't disarm you unless you have comitted a crime. That doesn't mean they won't shoot you if they think you moved.
    Is OK a stop and ID state?

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    Here is the exact section of the law in question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1290.8 Paragraph B
    The person shall be required to have possession of his or
    her valid handgun license and a valid Oklahoma driver license or an
    Oklahoma State photo identification at all times when in possession
    of an authorized pistol. The person shall display the handgun
    license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however,
    that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other
    criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun
    shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual
    fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand.
    Oklahoma is not a stop and ID state in any other regard.

    Let us not get this confused with notification during a detainment, arrest, or routine traffic stop:
    Quote Originally Posted by Title 21, Section 1290.8 Paragraph C
    It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to
    identify the fact that the person is in actual possession of a
    concealed or unconcealed handgun pursuant to the authority of the
    Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person first comes into contact
    with any law enforcement officer of this state or its political
    subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during the course
    of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop. Said
    identification to the law enforcement officer shall be made at the
    first opportunity.
    So during a traffic stop, arrest, or detainment, the carrier (open or concealed) must notify the officer at the first opportunity that they are carrying a firearm. (per paragraph C). However, any officer may at any time ask to see your permit if they see you carrying a firearm even though you are not doing anything wrong. (per paragraph B).
    Last edited by hrdware; 06-11-2012 at 03:35 PM.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

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    Are you ready for this...

    I am in Ohio, have been OC'ing since 2006. Have had both good and bad interactions with Police and the public.

    We are at this point in time because we didn't exercise our right, we got lazy, and we let the anti-gun people get control.

    We are now fighting to get them back.

    Are we ready. It only takes one person to step up and say, No... this isn't going to continue.

    So read this quote... I think it says alot.. then decide.... ARE YOU READY..

    Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always, even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

  18. #18
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrdware View Post
    Here is the exact section of the law in question:



    Oklahoma is not a stop and ID state in any other regard.

    Let us not get this confused with notification during a detainment, arrest, or routine traffic stop:


    So during a traffic stop, arrest, or detainment, the carrier (open or concealed) must notify the officer at the first opportunity that they are carrying a firearm. (per paragraph C). However, any officer may at any time ask to see your permit if they see you carrying a firearm even though you are not doing anything wrong. (per paragraph B).
    Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification.

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    Honestly I would say that almost no one is "truely" ready for it unless they have OCed before, but that is because one thing I've learned is that until you actually DO something (such as OC in this case), you're most likely not going to be truely ready for it. I remember the first time I CCed after moving back to Oklahoma from Japan, and how I was so nervous that I had a hard time not smiling (smiling is one of my nervous/embarassed ticks). After the first day of doing it I was a LOT more comfortable about it, but if I had waited until I wasn't so nervous then I likely still wouldn't be carrying as it took that initial experience to become "ready;" and even now I'm still learning about things that I didn't know when I first started carrying (things like how to handle a stop; which I'm sure I'll make mistakes on if/when my first stop happens). And I've seen this with pretty much everything. Military training, learning to drive, etc. Regardless of what it is, you can only become so prepared without actually doing something and there's always something else you could learn/do to prep, but ultimately until you actually DO the task and learn from it you're effectively not going to know what you don't know (hopefully you've heard that phrase before because I don't know how else to explain it).

    So I would say to prepare as best you can, realize that should type of encounter happen (curious citizen, cop requesting ID, etc) you will probably make some mistake, and learn from it. Unless the mistake gets you killed it isn't the end of the world and the only way to become truely comfortable is to get out there and gain that experience. Or at least that's how it's always been in my experience.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    A tip from a former nervous gun carrier.....

    Start out full cc. I am sure most of you already do. Next, cc with a shirt/jacket that may expose your sidearm if you reach over your head. Do that until you are comfortable. Then move on to something that prints a little easier and maybe shows the bottom of the barrel/holster.

    Just ease into it. Or, if you are die hard ready, just go full Oc.

    Just remember a few things.
    1) If you look suspicious, people will treat you as such.
    2)DON'T DRAW ATTENTION TO YOUR FIREARM! Don't touch it. Don't look at it. Don't talk about it unless asked.
    3)Just be yourself. My daily routine when leaving the house is pants, shirt, wallet, belt, gun. Its part of my routine. And to be honest, putting it on is habit.
    4)And finally, Be polite!! Don't walk around looking angry. If someone says hello, smile and return the greeting. If you portray yourself as a normal, going about his business citizen, there will be less "fear" from the sheeple when they see you carrying.

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The only folks that 'need to be ready for OC' is every LEA across Oklahoma.

    The citizen has the choice to OC or CC or No C, not LE.

    I would focus my efforts, and I have in my little neck of the woods, ensuring the local LEA in your little neck of the woods has a clue about the law and what exactly they are empowered and authorized to do. Especially what they are not empowered or authorized to do. Get the 'local sheriff' and review the law.

    Oh, and make sure you local electronics store has a slew of recording devices.

    OKOCA, start a fund for that first 'test case'.

    Other than this, well done OK and carry on.....after Nov. 1 that is.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  22. #22
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I have OC'd in WA since July 1970. Never had a bad LE encounter. Actually, only had one LE encounter and that lasted all of two words. Him "Hunting?" Me "yep". I was loading up with supplies at a grocery store, not in my home county. (but that was with a big 6" Colt Revolver, not my normal carry.

    Actually, in my home county at that time we had an elitest, anti-commoner gun carry Sheriff...but he also knew the law and left us alone.

    My one piece of advice. Do not act like a nervous Nelly. It attracts negative attention. OC is a legal activity, act like it is normal, and guess what? No-one will notice.

  23. #23
    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    Reciprocity

    Since OK. has reciprocity with Washington State. will A washington LCCW (CPL) be legal for OC if visiting down there.
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    Since OK. has reciprocity with Washington State. will A washington LCCW (CPL) be legal for OC if visiting down there.
    Yes, as long as you are following OK law.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be accepted as legal advice

  25. #25
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    Since OK. has reciprocity with Washington State. will A washington LCCW (CPL) be legal for OC if visiting down there.
    Shame I will be visiting before the new law goes into effect. Should be interesting figuring out how to conceal a full size XD in 90 degree weather.

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